Bush vetoes expansion of kids' health insurance program

[Caladan 19]

Charles, I am sure some people do join the military at least in part to enjoy the benefits, but how can someone who is debilitated by disease join the military?

i suppose they can do what others here have shown they can do best - b!tch about things.

Most American families are one major illness away from being in serious financial trouble. Even if you want to postulate that they're all irresponsible (ignoring successful small business owners, self-employed people, and, uh, recent immigrants), there's something desperately wrong with a system where that many people are labelled irresponsible.

Insurance for C. would cost us $5,000 a year through the plan that I have. That's just nuts.

that's cheap, what are you complaining about? i've seen 14k for a family of three for the company i work for.

Largely because it's 33% of my income (yes, I know that makes me irresponsible in your eyes, but you know, that's what being a student is like) and restricts us to the university health center, whose mode of care is 'drink more fluids.'

33%? for some here, that 14k figure above is 50% of their pay

see you don't have it so bad.

Haha. Don't get me wrong; I'm not whining. Aside from the low salary, life is pretty good. And once C. is back to work his employer will take care of health care or I will berate them until they pony up for an individual plan for him. It's just that $5K per annum with no dental, optical, or prescription coverage for a guy in his early thirties in perfect health is nuts, and I can't believe this is the most efficient way to ensure health.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

I love the "can't get enough resources to get out of poverty" #######!

This is the one country in the world where people bend over backwards to give opportunity to those willing to do something with it. The problem is.... it's too hard for most people to overcome the trap not because they lack the opportunity, but because they lack the will.

It should be changed to "can't wake up and get my @$$ to work on time" trap.

Lets not catagorize EVERYONE to YOUR lable ok

Well, if the shoe fits. 40 million uninsured, how many million illegals? hmmm.

[Sinergy 3]

It's a fallacy, beloved by some, that the majority of those in trouble are there because they are lazy. Maybe you believe that because you have never been around people like this? I don't know, but it is sad that you do believe that to be true.

If it's not laziness then what is it? This is America. We have all the opportunities that anyone could ask for. It makes me want to vomit when I see people saying they have no choice but to be poor. (points to Ionescu's post)

I said i have no choice but to be poor? i work til 6pm then go to school til 10 pm and im back at work at 9am after driving my daughter to school id say i made a choice, just still hard right now. thanks gary

[Caladan 19]

His old job didn't have health insurance. I suppose they could have aborted the child. But there's a point where I think 'but it was your choice' rings a little hollow.

So I ask again, how is it my job to pay for someone else's care? If you want to reform the insurance industry to make insurance portable or to make them cover pre-existing conditions then I can understand that. But to make the government responsible for everyone's health care is something I will never support.

The one benefit to a UHS is that everyone is automatically in it. That means that all of the young twenty-somethings who are in good health and normally would skate by without insurance are in the risk pool, and if you understand how insurance works, that pretty much automatically translates to a lower cost.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

It's a fallacy, beloved by some, that the majority of those in trouble are there because they are lazy. Maybe you believe that because you have never been around people like this? I don't know, but it is sad that you do believe that to be true.

If it's not laziness then what is it? This is America. We have all the opportunities that anyone could ask for. It makes me want to vomit when I see people saying they have no choice but to be poor. (points to Ionescu's post)

I said i have no choice but to be poor? i work til 6pm then go to school til 10 pm and im back at work at 9am after driving my daughter to school id say i made a choice, just still hard right now. thanks gary

Thats great Tara, someday you will be a rich republican

[GaryC 7]

His old job didn't have health insurance. I suppose they could have aborted the child. But there's a point where I think 'but it was your choice' rings a little hollow.

So I ask again, how is it my job to pay for someone else's care? If you want to reform the insurance industry to make insurance portable or to make them cover pre-existing conditions then I can understand that. But to make the government responsible for everyone's health care is something I will never support.

The one benefit to a UHS is that everyone is automatically in it. That means that all of the young twenty-somethings who are in good health and normally would skate by without insurance are in the risk pool, and if you understand how insurance works, that pretty much automatically translates to a lower cost.

Not when the government is running it. It will become bloated, convoluted and inefficient. In a short time no one will have quality care. If your goal is to have everyone covered equally then I guess that is what will happen. Everyone will be equally screwed.

[GaryC 7]

It's a fallacy, beloved by some, that the majority of those in trouble are there because they are lazy. Maybe you believe that because you have never been around people like this? I don't know, but it is sad that you do believe that to be true.

If it's not laziness then what is it? This is America. We have all the opportunities that anyone could ask for. It makes me want to vomit when I see people saying they have no choice but to be poor. (points to Ionescu's post)

I said i have no choice but to be poor? i work til 6pm then go to school til 10 pm and im back at work at 9am after driving my daughter to school id say i made a choice, just still hard right now. thanks gary

Your going to school? Then you are taking your future into you own hands. At some point you will no longer be poor. No one promised that it will be instant. I worked 3 jobs for years, lived from hand to mouth supporting myself, wife and 3 kids and stuck with it. The pay-off came in time and if you stay with it you will also make it.

[Sinergy 3]

why help the unfortunate when the "comfortable" can be happy and well off?

Some people don't see the poor as unfortunate, but rather as having made bad decisions/not worked hard enough and therefore they deserve to be "punished".

Thats it although I don't see it as punishment but rather living with the consequences of their actions. I was at one time of the "unfortunate". Living in a car, no health insurance and living on handouts. I was there because of my own bad decisions and I got out of it by my own hard work. There is nothing special about me, if I can do it anyone can. I don't see why I should have to take responsibility for others that are not willing to do what it takes to make their lives better and instead insist that those that are working pay for everything they want.

how is me choosing to have my 2 wonderful children a consequence of my actions? i dont see my kids a consequence at all. So please do not catagorize my kids as me paying a consequence of anything. im living my life happy bc of them, with or without free insuarance, i would never regret sacrificing anything for Shonna and Joshua.

You made the choice to have kids. I am glad that your happy you did. But how is it my job to help pay for them? You wanted to have kids so you should be 100% responsible for their care.

never said i didnt take care of them, pls stop assuming i dont and im begging for your useless help. stop with being so greedy, god this is why i cant stay bush lovers, your all for yourselfs and could care less about other humans, unless they live in big houses and good incomes.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

Gary - did/do your 5 kids go to public school?

[Sinergy 3]

It's a fallacy, beloved by some, that the majority of those in trouble are there because they are lazy. Maybe you believe that because you have never been around people like this? I don't know, but it is sad that you do believe that to be true.

If it's not laziness then what is it? This is America. We have all the opportunities that anyone could ask for. It makes me want to vomit when I see people saying they have no choice but to be poor. (points to Ionescu's post)

I said i have no choice but to be poor? i work til 6pm then go to school til 10 pm and im back at work at 9am after driving my daughter to school id say i made a choice, just still hard right now. thanks gary

Thats great Tara, someday you will be a rich republican :dance:

im not that shallow! and i believe in helping ppl. mainly bc i know im not the only one the world revolves around

[Emancipation 2]

(AP) A letter from the Moncton Hospital to a New Brunswick heart patient in need of an electrocardiogram said the appointment would be in three months. It added: "If the person named on this computer-generated letter is deceased, please accept our sincere apologies."

The patient wasn't dead, according to the doctor who showed the letter to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity. But there are many Canadians who claim the long wait for the test and the frigid formality of the letter are indicative of a health system badly in need of emergency care.

Americans who flock to Canada for cheap flu shots often come away impressed at the free and first-class medical care available to Canadians, rich or poor. But tell that to hospital administrators constantly having to cut staff for lack of funds, or to the mother whose teenager was advised she would have to wait up to three years for surgery to repair a torn knee ligament.

Sign me up!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/20/...html?cmp=EM8705

This is completely taken out of context.. FYI..

Dr. / nursing Shortage is one of the biggest struggles in Canada right now.. Why? Because the US system courts them and promises them $$ and signing bonuses and our country can't compete.. We put 'em through school and the US nabs them for their messed up system.. it's a catch 22.. WAAAY more complicated than this article makes it out to be.

[Sinergy 3]

It's a fallacy, beloved by some, that the majority of those in trouble are there because they are lazy. Maybe you believe that because you have never been around people like this? I don't know, but it is sad that you do believe that to be true.

If it's not laziness then what is it? This is America. We have all the opportunities that anyone could ask for. It makes me want to vomit when I see people saying they have no choice but to be poor. (points to Ionescu's post)

I said i have no choice but to be poor? i work til 6pm then go to school til 10 pm and im back at work at 9am after driving my daughter to school id say i made a choice, just still hard right now. thanks gary

Your going to school? Then you are taking your future into you own hands. At some point you will no longer be poor. No one promised that it will be instant. I worked 3 jobs for years, lived from hand to mouth supporting myself, wife and 3 kids and stuck with it. The pay-off came in time and if you stay with it you will also make it.

i agree, but i also care about ppl who are struggling, even more than i am and there are who struggle much more than i do

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

It's a fallacy, beloved by some, that the majority of those in trouble are there because they are lazy. Maybe you believe that because you have never been around people like this? I don't know, but it is sad that you do believe that to be true.

If it's not laziness then what is it? This is America. We have all the opportunities that anyone could ask for. It makes me want to vomit when I see people saying they have no choice but to be poor. (points to Ionescu's post)

I said i have no choice but to be poor? i work til 6pm then go to school til 10 pm and im back at work at 9am after driving my daughter to school id say i made a choice, just still hard right now. thanks gary

Thats great Tara, someday you will be a rich republican :dance:

im not that shallow! and i believe in helping ppl. mainly bc i know im not the only one the world revolves around

I beleive in people helping themselves. Just like your doin! good job keep it up.

Edited October 4, 2007 by CarolsMarc

[GaryC 7]

It's a fallacy, beloved by some, that the majority of those in trouble are there because they are lazy. Maybe you believe that because you have never been around people like this? I don't know, but it is sad that you do believe that to be true.

If it's not laziness then what is it? This is America. We have all the opportunities that anyone could ask for. It makes me want to vomit when I see people saying they have no choice but to be poor. (points to Ionescu's post)

I said i have no choice but to be poor? i work til 6pm then go to school til 10 pm and im back at work at 9am after driving my daughter to school id say i made a choice, just still hard right now. thanks gary

Your going to school? Then you are taking your future into you own hands. At some point you will no longer be poor. No one promised that it will be instant. I worked 3 jobs for years, lived from hand to mouth supporting myself, wife and 3 kids and stuck with it. The pay-off came in time and if you stay with it you will also make it.

i agree, but i also care about ppl who are struggling, even more than i am and there are who struggle much more than i do

Forgive me but I think that if things come to easy then they are not appreciated as much. The struggle is what makes you strong. When something is expected and just given with no sacrifice involved then that is taken for granted. Much like the way we have it in America right now. Compared to a lot of the world we are in heaven but because it's alway been there we have people that think they way we do things stinks. It all comes down to working hard for what you want and then being thankful for it once you get it.

Edited October 4, 2007 by GaryC

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

It's a fallacy, beloved by some, that the majority of those in trouble are there because they are lazy. Maybe you believe that because you have never been around people like this? I don't know, but it is sad that you do believe that to be true.

If it's not laziness then what is it? This is America. We have all the opportunities that anyone could ask for. It makes me want to vomit when I see people saying they have no choice but to be poor. (points to Ionescu's post)

I said i have no choice but to be poor? i work til 6pm then go to school til 10 pm and im back at work at 9am after driving my daughter to school id say i made a choice, just still hard right now. thanks gary

Your going to school? Then you are taking your future into you own hands. At some point you will no longer be poor. No one promised that it will be instant. I worked 3 jobs for years, lived from hand to mouth supporting myself, wife and 3 kids and stuck with it. The pay-off came in time and if you stay with it you will also make it.

i agree, but i also care about ppl who are struggling, even more than i am and there are who struggle much more than i do

Forgive me but I think that if things come to easy then they are not appreciated as much. The struggle is what makes you strong. When something is expected and just given with no sacrifice involved then that is taken for granted. Much like the way we have it in America right now. Compared to a lot of the world we are in heaven but because it's alway been there we have people that think they way we do things stinks. It all comes down to working hard for what you want and then being thankful for it once you get it.

Excellent example Gary. Take for example the Lewis & Clark story. There isnt much of this kind of determination anymore.