Saw a Poll on TV last night

[TheATeam 0]

Well, I know that my prejudice comes from having worked in a place where I saw immigrants all day, every day and for the most part, they were angry that we were asking them to give up their driver's licences in order to have a Canadian one.

It was just really hard to see people who'd obviously worked hard to get here and then demand to be treated as above the rules.

Anyhow..I digress! Sorry!

[TheATeam 0]

Oh boy..that's a good one Emancipation, especially considering that they didn't originally immigrate from anywhere, and we forced our language on them!

What a brain buster!

[Udella&Wiz 325]

I look at it this way. If I moved to France would I be expected to learn French? If I moved to Canada, would I be expected to learn Canadian...Eh? I think you should have to know the language of the country you wish to vote in no matter where that is.

By the way, did you know that there is no "official" language of the US.

[warlord 73]

Well yes you have to be a citizen to vote, so regardless of language if you are a US citizen then you have that voting right (one of the rights of being a citizen). So whether you were born a US citizen, or you naturalized as a US citizen it doesn't matter, you're a US citizen and you have the right to vote.

My opinon on people not speaking english or wanting to learn it is I think they should learn it and practice speaking it. After all English is the official language (though they're trying to push Spanish as being a second). I remember hating all the french in Canada. I still think it's stupid to have both languages on everything. Just put french on the products in Quebec and English on the rest or something.

Oh well, I guess I'm not into bilungualism at all, but no matter what that still shouldn't take away someones right to vote as after all there is no requirement that you have to speak english well to become a citizen. You just have to have a basic understanding of the language at the basics.

I mean my English test for citizenship comprised of me having to write down "I ate dinner at my sisters house". After that the officer decided I didn't really need to do the verbal test.

I guess the next thing is should people who aren't christian be able to vote, after all we have the "Under God" and "In God We Trust" etc. I wouldn't be surprised after McCain's speach that people will want that to be a condition if one should vote or become a citizen that you have to become a christian. Blah...

Edited October 2, 2007 by warlord

[Emancipation 2]

I'm giddy... so bear with me.. Nothing useful for the conversation but.....

what happens if someone can't speak?? maybe they have a tracheotomy or are mute? what happens then? Can they vote?

[bradcanuck 1]

If people who do not speak English can not be allowed to vote, then we have to remove the black vote, and the southern white vote.

Where do we draw the line? This is just prejeduce and racism in another form. Limiting ones freedoms based on language is awful.

[TheATeam 0]

I suppose a little bit of "devil's advocate" would be to look at it the other way around. Would we be allowed to vote if we moved to a country where they didn't speak english and we didn't speak their language? I think not.

Emancipation- in regards to not speaking, they could still read and write english I'm assuming?! Sign language is "english" is it not?

Edited October 2, 2007 by TheATeam

[Emancipation 2]

Emancipation- in regards to not speaking, they could still read and write english I'm assuming?! Sign language is "english" is it not?

I believe Sign Language is a universal language.. like morse code etc. not really English at all

[TheATeam 0]

Yup! You know, now that I come to think of it...I think you're absolutely right! It's just how we translate it then huh? So I suppose if we all "spoke" sign language there would be no question would there? ~giggles~

[trailmix 77]

I suppose a little bit of "devil's advocate" would be to look at it the other way around. Would we be allowed to vote if we moved to a country where they didn't speak english and we didn't speak their language? I think not.

Then again, we can't really compare Canada to other countries can we? We have to set our own standards - I'm sure they behead people for some crimes in other countries - but I hope we aren't going to implement that here

[zyggy 9]

Actually minimal proficiency in English is a requirement to be a naturalized USC with some exceptions for the elderly and the mentally incapacitated...so one would expect that the majority of those who are USC have some minimal proficiency in English...

Citizenship and voting is a great responsibility and should be taken seriously... do you think someone should have the ability to vote if they have no idea who or what they are voting for... just a question...

English may not be an official language of the US, but it is the language of our government and our political discourse... Like it our not, English is the one language that is common for all Americans... Is it wrong to expect those who wish to take part in our democracy to have some sort of minimal proficiency in it...

Edited October 2, 2007 by zyggy

[Jasman0717 9]

My agency has the option to produce documents for our clients in 19 different languages for public assistance. It sure seems that it would be cheaper to print in one language

[~Nini~ 2]

I'm a Canadian citizen by birth (Chinese by ethnicity), but my mom immigrated and took the citizenship test - and let me tell you that she worked her butt off to learn the stuff. It's frustrating because I understand where people are coming from when they say that they want immigrants to know the language - I've been in the situation where people have been downright pissed at me (poor retail girl) for not "understanding" them when they come at me with a language they think I understand.

On the flip side, going to a country, especially one with a different set of values and cultural beliefs, is extremely tough. The whole argument of "well they didn't have to move here if they can't be bothered to learn the language" is really brittle - sometimes people are moving because they need to move. So saying that they should learn the language - that might not be the first thing on their agenda. To boot, English is probably one of the harder languages to learn - not making it an excuse, but it's really intimidating.

There are a lot of people out there who understand English, who can probably speak it reasonably well, yet feel much more comfortable speaking in their native tongue. I'm all for the rudimentary understanding vote, myself - as mentioned earlier, voting is often "translated" into other native languages so that the melting pot understands what is going on. Just because they don't speak English, doesn't necessarily mean that they don't know what's going on around them.

/rant (sorry about that...)

[trailmix 77]

/rant (sorry about that...)

Didn't sound like a rant to me, you make valid points.

As for your question Zyggy - "do you think someone should have the ability to vote if they have no idea who or what they are voting for"

Well in an ideal world if you didn't know what you were voting for you wouldn't vote (whether it's due to a language barrier, a disinterest in the issues or that you always vote the way Granddad votes). However that isn't really the way it is and I just don't think we can assume that because someone has minimal English skills that they don't know the issues or what they are voting for.

Minimal or no English skills = Unable to obtain information on the issues and make a considered vote.

Just doesn't add up for me.

I do think immigrants should have "some sort of minimal proficiency" in the English language, but more for their benefit than ours.

[borealgirl 0]

Well, having grown up in Quebec, language and all the politics related to it is part of my psyche for good or for bad. But I went down to San Antonio once, and the local Spanish speaking population have very similar ties to the area and the history as do French Canadians. They see Texas as really part of Mexico, or at least the people I spoke with did, for it wasn;t too long ago that it really was! The parallels are similar, but thankfully, Canada has grown out of being too afraid of differences and embraced more than one official language. Hoefully more languages will come intot he fold. I am so glad for my bilingual upbringing and feel that it has opened me up to so much experience in the world.

Another point: If we regulate languages, languages will have a hard time changing and evolving.