Migration and Corn

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Mexico has been growing corn for 10,000 years. But today the corn sector is in a state of acute crisis. Household incomes are in decline, and nutrition is deteriorating. Across Mexico, millions of people are migrating in a desperate bid to escape rural poverty, many of them intent on reaching the US. In the southern state of Chiapas, where the corn crisis has interacted with a collapse in coffee prices, it is estimated that 70 per cent of the rural population now live in extreme poverty.

The slump affecting Mexico’s corn farmers has multiple causes. Some of these are domestic. Successive Mexican governments have failed the rural poor, preferring to concentrate public spending on commercial enterprises. It is also the result of the strategies of big agribusiness companies which buy, trade, and process corn on both sides of the border. But the US government is also directly culpable, and it is US agricultural policy that will be under discussion in September. As we show in this paper, there is a direct link between government agricultural policies in the US and rural misery in Mexico.

Under the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), Mexico has rapidly opened its markets to imports from the US, including corn. Since the early 1990s, US corn exports to Mexico have expanded by a factor of three. These exports now account for almost one third of the domestic market.

Surging imports have been associated with a steep decline in prices. Real prices for Mexican corn have fallen more than 70 per cent since 1994. For the 15 million Mexicans who depend on the crop, declining prices translate into declining incomes and increased hardship. Many people can no longer afford basic health care. Women have suffered disproportionately. Male migration and falling incomes have increased the labor demands on them, both on household farms and in income-generating activity beyond the household.

One of the primary factors behind the advantage US corn has in the Mexican market is US government payments to the sector. The US corn sector is the largest single recipient of US government payments. In 2000, government pay-outs totaled $10.1bn. To put this figure in context, it is some ten times greater than the total Mexican agricultural budget.

In its official reports to the WTO, the US denies using any export subsidies in the corn sector. That denial is justified in terms of the letter of WTO law, which currently defines export subsidies as a payment that bridges the gap between (higher) world prices and (lower) export prices. The problem is that the WTO regulations relating to agriculture are deeply flawed. They fail to acknowledge that transfers to producers include a de facto export subsidy.

In this paper we estimate the scale of this subsidy by two methods. The first involves comparing export prices with the cost of production. The second involves converting overall payments to corn into $/ton equivalent subsidies, and then using this to estimate total export subsidies. Both of these methods are consistent with the rules applied to dumping by the WTO in nonagricultural areas. They reveal an effective export subsidy to the Mexican market of between $105 and $145m annually. This export subsidy exceeds the total household income of the 250,000 corn farmers in the state of Chiapas.

Far from operating on a ‘level playing field’, small farmers in Chiapas and elsewhere in Mexico are at the wrong end of a steeply sloping playing field which runs downhill from the US Mid-West. They are competing not against US farmers, but against US taxpayers and the world’s most powerful treasury. It is difficult to think of a starker illustration of unfair trade in practice.

Set against the losses suffered by Mexico’s rural poor, US corn subsidies do create some winners. Agricultural corporations – such as Cargill and Archer Daniels Midland (ADM) – get access to US corn surpluses at artificially depressed prices, creating lucrative export opportunities. The same corporations are the largest corn exporters to Mexico, and benefit from export credits to Mexican importers. Some US farmers also gain. However, the lion’s share of corn subsidies goes to the biggest farms. As in other sectors, US agricultural subsidies hurt the rural poor overseas and fail the rural poor at home, but they create windfall gains for big farms and corporate agribusiness interests.

http://www.mindfully.org/WTO/2003/US-Mexic...xfam27aug03.htm

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

...somehow it's the fault of the USA.

With Stevo, it always is

He doesn't like the USA. I recommend joining the armed forces to instill a little pride in our country.

Whoah there, buddy...take a few deep breaths before taking cheap shots like that. I hope you were kidding.

I thought such a suggestion would get such a reaction.

I said 'doesn't like' not 'hate'. What's wrong with joining the armed forces? Does the mere thought make you vomit?

I think anyone here should be careful about stating that another person here hates America without facing dire consequences. That's not free speech, that's defamation. I'd kindly ask you to retract what you said.

I've never said I didn't like America and to suggest that I don't is defamatory.

As far for serving in the military - I signed up for the Air Force over 20 years ago but failed the medical, but that's got nothing to do with this thread.

your posts say otherwise

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

Everyone. Please remember that we are a multi-national board and everyone will have a unique perspective and opinion to bring to the conversation. We should welcome diversity and even though we may never all agree we can certainly appreciate that our uniqueness is what helps make the world a wonderful place .

[GaryC 7]

Steven thinks all the evils in the world are caused by capitalism and the USA. I see nothing posted by him that shows the good we do in the world, only the bad. Personally I am getting tired of his blame America first mantra.

Gary, I'm really disappointed in you. Why does this thread have to turn into a personal attack on me? I simply posted an article that presents some facts and presents a viewpoint - something you do quite often here. Although you have every right to counter the position taken, you don't have a right to personally attack me, let alone put words in my mouth. I don't hate America any more than you do and it's disheartening that I should ever have to defend my patriotism. Honestly, reading your above post just makes me sick...it's pathetic.

As for talking about the plight of the poor Mexican farmers and dismissing at as either anti-American or having a bleeding heart - if you are an Isolationist, then be consistent. When is talking about the plight of a nation's people appropriate to you and when isn't it? I could respect your position more if you weren't being selective with your compassion about the plight of other countries.

I'm sorry Steven but you have consistently shown your viewpoint to be one of blaming America for the problems of the world. It's not meant as a personal attack but as an observation. If I have misjudged you then I apologize but you should know that is the impression you give.

As for your post, what is your point if your not posting it to blast American policy? We grow more corn than anyone else in the world. We grow more than enough for our own needs and feed a large percentage of the world with our excess. So you are saying that we should raise the price everyone pays so the Mexican farmers can get a better price? There is where your blaming America. I want to pay the least I can for my food. That is in Americas best interests. If our exports are hurting Mexican farmers then it's up to Mexico to limit our corn or subsidize it's own farmers. In short, it's an internal issue for Mexico. But if you want us to raise our prices then every other country that depends on our corn will pay the price. It will create a hardship for the rest of the world just so Mexican farmers can get a better price. You don't think out your positions Steven. Every action has many reactions. But forgive me if all I see from you is a knee-jerk blame America reaction to anything you see as an injustice. We live in a great country, without us a lot of the world would starve. Your not seeing beyond your nose.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

...somehow it's the fault of the USA.

With Stevo, it always is

He doesn't like the USA. I recommend joining the armed forces to instill a little pride in our country.

Whoah there, buddy...take a few deep breaths before taking cheap shots like that. I hope you were kidding.

I thought such a suggestion would get such a reaction.

I said 'doesn't like' not 'hate'. What's wrong with joining the armed forces? Does the mere thought make you vomit?

I think anyone here should be careful about stating that another person here hates America without facing dire consequences. That's not free speech, that's defamation. I'd kindly ask you to retract what you said.

I've never said I didn't like America and to suggest that I don't is defamatory.

As far for serving in the military - I signed up for the Air Force over 20 years ago but failed the medical, but that's got nothing to do with this thread.

your posts say otherwise

If I posted in favor of the Patriotic Act, would that make me like America more or less? What a myopic view of what is a definition of America and what constitutes as disliking America. Support Bush or you're anti-American, hate illegal immigrants or hate America, be a free market capitalist or you're a communist. But yeah, go ahead Rich, that's shows a lot of character to label someone on this site as disliking America because you disagree with them. For someone who believes in free speech, you've done a pretty good job of dismissing my opinion with that condemnation. Pathetic.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Steven thinks all the evils in the world are caused by capitalism and the USA. I see nothing posted by him that shows the good we do in the world, only the bad. Personally I am getting tired of his blame America first mantra.

Gary, I'm really disappointed in you. Why does this thread have to turn into a personal attack on me? I simply posted an article that presents some facts and presents a viewpoint - something you do quite often here. Although you have every right to counter the position taken, you don't have a right to personally attack me, let alone put words in my mouth. I don't hate America any more than you do and it's disheartening that I should ever have to defend my patriotism. Honestly, reading your above post just makes me sick...it's pathetic.

As for talking about the plight of the poor Mexican farmers and dismissing at as either anti-American or having a bleeding heart - if you are an Isolationist, then be consistent. When is talking about the plight of a nation's people appropriate to you and when isn't it? I could respect your position more if you weren't being selective with your compassion about the plight of other countries.

I'm sorry Steven but you have consistently shown your viewpoint to be one of blaming America for the problems of the world. It's not meant as a personal attack but as an observation. If I have misjudged you then I apologize but you should know that is the impression you give.

Gary, how is pointing out that farm subsidies have hurt the indigent Mexican farmers is basically blaming America, but complaining about other forms of welfare, which you've done quite often, is NOT blaming America??? I'm shaking my head here...think about that for awhile...think about every government action, law, legislation, etc. that you've ever questioned or thought was bad and tell me if doing so you are in fact, blaming America. Lord help us.

Edited October 1, 2007 by Mister Fancypants

[GaryC 7]

Steven thinks all the evils in the world are caused by capitalism and the USA. I see nothing posted by him that shows the good we do in the world, only the bad. Personally I am getting tired of his blame America first mantra.

Gary, I'm really disappointed in you. Why does this thread have to turn into a personal attack on me? I simply posted an article that presents some facts and presents a viewpoint - something you do quite often here. Although you have every right to counter the position taken, you don't have a right to personally attack me, let alone put words in my mouth. I don't hate America any more than you do and it's disheartening that I should ever have to defend my patriotism. Honestly, reading your above post just makes me sick...it's pathetic.

As for talking about the plight of the poor Mexican farmers and dismissing at as either anti-American or having a bleeding heart - if you are an Isolationist, then be consistent. When is talking about the plight of a nation's people appropriate to you and when isn't it? I could respect your position more if you weren't being selective with your compassion about the plight of other countries.

I'm sorry Steven but you have consistently shown your viewpoint to be one of blaming America for the problems of the world. It's not meant as a personal attack but as an observation. If I have misjudged you then I apologize but you should know that is the impression you give.

Gary, how is pointing out that farm subsidies have hurt the indigent Mexican farmers is basically blaming America, but complaining about other forms of welfare, which you've done quite often, is NOT blaming America??? I'm shaking my head here...think about that for awhile...think about every government action, law, legislation, etc. that you've ever questioned or thought was bad and tell me if doing so you are in fact, blaming America. Lord help us.

So your still trying to blame America for Mexico's problems. The Mexican government is Mexico's problem. Your trying to place the blame everywhere but where it belongs, on Mexico's government.

[GaryC 7]

Look, here is my point. Maybe the farm subsidy program needs changed. That is an internal matter. But your trying to make it as some excuse for the illegals to be here. In short, your trying to say that it is Americas fault (by virtue of subsidized farming) that the illegals come here. There is no excuse for 20 million illegals here, NAFTA or farm subsidies included. Mexico has massive amounts of natural resources and could be just as rich as we are. The reason they are not is because the Mexican government is corrupt and is keeping it's own population poor. Place the blame where it belongs, on the Mexican government.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Steven thinks all the evils in the world are caused by capitalism and the USA. I see nothing posted by him that shows the good we do in the world, only the bad. Personally I am getting tired of his blame America first mantra.

Gary, I'm really disappointed in you. Why does this thread have to turn into a personal attack on me? I simply posted an article that presents some facts and presents a viewpoint - something you do quite often here. Although you have every right to counter the position taken, you don't have a right to personally attack me, let alone put words in my mouth. I don't hate America any more than you do and it's disheartening that I should ever have to defend my patriotism. Honestly, reading your above post just makes me sick...it's pathetic.

As for talking about the plight of the poor Mexican farmers and dismissing at as either anti-American or having a bleeding heart - if you are an Isolationist, then be consistent. When is talking about the plight of a nation's people appropriate to you and when isn't it? I could respect your position more if you weren't being selective with your compassion about the plight of other countries.

I'm sorry Steven but you have consistently shown your viewpoint to be one of blaming America for the problems of the world. It's not meant as a personal attack but as an observation. If I have misjudged you then I apologize but you should know that is the impression you give.

Gary, how is pointing out that farm subsidies have hurt the indigent Mexican farmers is basically blaming America, but complaining about other forms of welfare, which you've done quite often, is NOT blaming America??? I'm shaking my head here...think about that for awhile...think about every government action, law, legislation, etc. that you've ever questioned or thought was bad and tell me if doing so you are in fact, blaming America. Lord help us.

So your still trying to blame America for Mexico's problems. The Mexican government is Mexico's problem. Your trying to place the blame everywhere but where it belongs, on Mexico's government.

What do you call when you b!tch about our government and it's policies? Tell me how I can purchase a patriot card so that no one will ever mistake my valid complaints about our policies as anti-American. How does that work? Do I need to join the Heritage Foundation? Or is it that as you see it, your complaints are legit because they are in fact our problem? Was Iraq our problem?

[GaryC 7]

Steven thinks all the evils in the world are caused by capitalism and the USA. I see nothing posted by him that shows the good we do in the world, only the bad. Personally I am getting tired of his blame America first mantra.

Gary, I'm really disappointed in you. Why does this thread have to turn into a personal attack on me? I simply posted an article that presents some facts and presents a viewpoint - something you do quite often here. Although you have every right to counter the position taken, you don't have a right to personally attack me, let alone put words in my mouth. I don't hate America any more than you do and it's disheartening that I should ever have to defend my patriotism. Honestly, reading your above post just makes me sick...it's pathetic.

As for talking about the plight of the poor Mexican farmers and dismissing at as either anti-American or having a bleeding heart - if you are an Isolationist, then be consistent. When is talking about the plight of a nation's people appropriate to you and when isn't it? I could respect your position more if you weren't being selective with your compassion about the plight of other countries.

I'm sorry Steven but you have consistently shown your viewpoint to be one of blaming America for the problems of the world. It's not meant as a personal attack but as an observation. If I have misjudged you then I apologize but you should know that is the impression you give.

Gary, how is pointing out that farm subsidies have hurt the indigent Mexican farmers is basically blaming America, but complaining about other forms of welfare, which you've done quite often, is NOT blaming America??? I'm shaking my head here...think about that for awhile...think about every government action, law, legislation, etc. that you've ever questioned or thought was bad and tell me if doing so you are in fact, blaming America. Lord help us.

So your still trying to blame America for Mexico's problems. The Mexican government is Mexico's problem. Your trying to place the blame everywhere but where it belongs, on Mexico's government.

What do you call when you b!tch about our government and it's policies? Tell me how I can purchase a patriot card so that no one will ever mistake my valid complaints about our policies as anti-American. How does that work? Do I need to join the Heritage Foundation? Or is it that as you see it, your complaints are legit because they are in fact our problem? Was Iraq our problem?

You just don't get it. It's OK to b!tch about a particular law or policy. That does not make you less patriotic. But when you blame America for other countries problems then that is wrong. Illegal aliens are here because of Mexico's problems and not because the big bad America is forcing them here.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

[quote name='GaryC' post='1227104'

What do you call when you b!tch about our government and it's policies? Tell me how I can purchase a patriot card so that no one will ever mistake my valid complaints about our policies as anti-American. How does that work? Do I need to join the Heritage Foundation? Or is it that as you see it, your complaints are legit because they are in fact our problem? Was Iraq our problem?

You just don't get it. It's OK to b!tch about a particular law or policy. That does not make you less patriotic. But when you blame America for other countries problems then that is wrong. Illegal aliens are here because of Mexico's problems and not because the big bad America is forcing them here.

Complaining about a policy or law is not blaming America...period. You either believe it is or you don't...making exceptions to that argument just shows the absurdity of it. Just because you don't think that we can help address our illegal immigration problem through Fair Trade, doesn't mean thinking so is blaming America.

Gary, I've tried to point out to you that we do have a responsibility towards other countries. Now I know you're not an isolationist, so it baffles me that in the case of the plight of the poor in Mexico, you simply shrug your shoulder and say it's not our problem.

I'm curious to where you ideologically draw the line as to what is America's responsibility towards other nations. Do you say no to any humanitarian role? Do you have any idea how much humanitarian aid we give out to other nations?

[Ban Hammer 13,337]

Mexico has been growing corn for 10,000 years.

[buckeye6976 0]

Mary Kay Thatcher of the American Farm Bureau Federation said that while it was obvious that American corn farmers received subsidies unavailable to Mexican farmers, that did not mean Americans had an unfair advantage. "In Mexico versus the U.S. it's a no-brainer," she said. "The Mexicans have far lower labor costs, lower land costs, input costs. To say that our subsidies are hurting Mexican farmers is ridiculous. It's not true."

Administration officials also rejected the idea that American exports to Mexico undermined farmers there. Julie Quick, a spokeswoman at the Agriculture Department, said that since most of the American corn exported to Mexico was used as animal feed for Mexico's rapidly expanding chicken and pork industries, it could not be undercutting small Mexican farmers who grow corn for human consumption.

"If we were dumping corn, then Mexico could file a complaint under the World Trade Organization, and Mexico has not," Ms. Quick said.

Also, if the USA were dumping cheap corn on the Mexican market wouldn't that mean that we are helping the very poor in Mexico put food on their table that they couldn't ordinarily afford?

[Caladan 19]

NAFTA *is* an agreement between the U.S., Canada, and Mexico. It's not blaming the U.S. to point out that the Mexican agricultural economy is suffering in part because of NAFTA. Yes, it's the 'mexican economy' that is bad, but it's not like the economy exists in a vacuum. If France doesn't accept American bananas or we don't accept Canadian beef, those industries take a hit. And all developing markets have to compete with the U.S.'s farm subsidies. (We would call it welfare except farms aren't in the cities..)

Anyhow, I don't know if ending farm subsidies is a good idea, but it doesn't make him any less patriotic than anyone else for bringing it up. (Hell, he's not the one wanting to throw out the Constitution over illegals.)

Also, if the USA were dumping cheap corn on the Mexican market wouldn't that mean that we are helping the very poor in Mexico put food on their table that they couldn't ordinarily afford?

I'll meet your question with another. When Toyota 'dumped' cheap, reliable vehicles on the U.S. and helped to cause the decline of the American auto industry, didn't that help the factory workers in Detroit because then they could buy cheap cars? (In other words, no.)

Anyhow, the article doesn't contradict itself. The overall cost of corn is cheaper, but that means that the Mexican farmers can't make any money selling corn, and the cheaper cost of corn hasn't lead to a cheaper cost of consumer goods. Farming isn't a business that will make you rich most of the time anyway, and NAFTA isn't helping. And hey, I heard that if you go north, you can make the equivalent of $100,000 per year if you work hard...

I don't think Steven's bashing the U.S. He's just making the point that we always talk about reducing demand by making everyone wear ID badges and churches have no tax exempt status and cops have the right to check your underwear for illegals and penalizing employers and putting up chainlink fences but we never stop to consider why we don't need to fence in Canada. Any workable long-term solution is going to have to involve Mexico's economy getting better.

[Jenn! 918]

Nothing new here, I see.

Keep up the good work, Steven.