Wife raped

[archie07 0]

Are you all trying to tell me that a woman from the Philippines would be too ashamed after a rape to disclose it to her American husband after it happened?

The answer to your question is "Maybe". But perhaps it'd be best to discuss via a seperate thread if you wanted to explore the cultural nuances to this, rather than subjecting the OP to this.

Neither you nor the OP need worry about what I am 'subjecting' him to. It's nothing compared to what the CO may do. My questions are designed to make you THINK about what's likely in store at the interview. It's not doing anybody any good to sit here and pat him on the head and wish him good luck. After all, he asked us what is likely to happen. We'd be doing him a disservice to be less than honest.

Consular Officers at high fraud posts are trained to look for signs of immigration fraud. That training includes questioning the visa applicant in a manner which will yield pertinent answers. If shame over a rape is a cultural norm (to the extent a woman might not tell her husband) then the CO will know this. But you can bet your bottom dollar the CO will still question the woman to see if the shame is real or not. It's their job.

If you think I'm turning up too much heat on the OP, then there's little hope for him when he really gets into the kitchen.

Whether it is a "cultural" norm or not, the CO will be concerned. "Cultural norm" is not the same as "Acceptable behavior". I'd suggest that the CO bases decisions on "Acceptable behavior" (based on US Standards) rather than "Cultural Norm". IMHO there is substantial difference.

My point was if you wanted to devolve to a philisophical or cultural discussion, it might be better elsewhere. As has been pointed out repeatedly, the CO is likely to be concerned in this case. Shall we repeat that over and over?

What are you on about? CO's don't judge the behavior of visa applicants based solely upon US 'standards' - whatever THOSE might be. They absolutely take into account the cultural norms, behaviors and idiosyncracies of the people their consulate serves.

That, IMO, is VERY relevant in a discussion about whether or not a denial might occur. Some things NOT 'acceptable' by US standards might be excuseable in another country.

You bet the CO's take cultural norms into account. At the same time, their training and ability to separate their own values and feelings can vary widely. I think a civil discussion on the cultural norms is appropriate here.

I tried to have a conversation about this with my wife who comes from a similar (somewhat) culture but even when we go past the part where she didn't believe the woman's story, a glaring cultural difference raised its head. In China, abortion is legal and the common remedy for all unwanted pregnancy.

As far as cultural norms, there are many variations within the US too. Many women would have done just as this woman says she did, even without a threat from the perpetrator. I wouldn't call it a US cultural norm but common just the same. Shame is a universal emotion.

I'm having the same problem here, my filipina wife doesn't believe the wifes story either. As for the cultural aspects alot can be learned from reading the Subic Rape Case if anyone wants to google it.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Are you all trying to tell me that a woman from the Philippines would be too ashamed after a rape to disclose it to her American husband after it happened?

The answer to your question is "Maybe". But perhaps it'd be best to discuss via a seperate thread if you wanted to explore the cultural nuances to this, rather than subjecting the OP to this.

Neither you nor the OP need worry about what I am 'subjecting' him to. It's nothing compared to what the CO may do. My questions are designed to make you THINK about what's likely in store at the interview. It's not doing anybody any good to sit here and pat him on the head and wish him good luck. After all, he asked us what is likely to happen. We'd be doing him a disservice to be less than honest.

Consular Officers at high fraud posts are trained to look for signs of immigration fraud. That training includes questioning the visa applicant in a manner which will yield pertinent answers. If shame over a rape is a cultural norm (to the extent a woman might not tell her husband) then the CO will know this. But you can bet your bottom dollar the CO will still question the woman to see if the shame is real or not. It's their job.

If you think I'm turning up too much heat on the OP, then there's little hope for him when he really gets into the kitchen.

Well said.

[daveg 0]

I am sorry to hear about what happened to your wife. If I were in your situation I would personally do the following :

+ support my wife in reporting the crime - the animal can not roam free and do this to someone else

+ finance a trip for both of you to a place were abortion is legal

That 's my personal opinion interview or visa are really not what worry me in your situation , what I would need if I were in your situation is to rebuild my life and of my special one.

I apologise in advance if it is not what wanted to hear

Thanks for your input think I need to hear all views at this point.

I talked to my congress womans office today she said she can't find out how to approach the Embassy

until we decide on what to do, as for if it will affect the visa.

We were thinking of adopting now, but just seen it takes 3 years.

I just can't belive that something so bad that happened to my wife might even effect us being together forver.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Here's a link to the current rape laws in the Philippines... the death penalty can be imposed in many instances.

Anti-Rape Law of 1997

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engasa350012001

IMO, because she doesn't want to report the person and is considering allowing the rapist to support the child, she's going to have an extremely difficult time convincing the CO this isn't a fraudulent marriage.

[archie07 0]

Since she didn't report the rape, what is to stop him from raping her again?

[Skeeter211 2]

Are you all trying to tell me that a woman from the Philippines would be too ashamed after a rape to disclose it to her American husband after it happened?

The answer to your question is "Maybe". But perhaps it'd be best to discuss via a seperate thread if you wanted to explore the cultural nuances to this, rather than subjecting the OP to this.

Neither you nor the OP need worry about what I am 'subjecting' him to. It's nothing compared to what the CO may do. My questions are designed to make you THINK about what's likely in store at the interview. It's not doing anybody any good to sit here and pat him on the head and wish him good luck. After all, he asked us what is likely to happen. We'd be doing him a disservice to be less than honest.

Consular Officers at high fraud posts are trained to look for signs of immigration fraud. That training includes questioning the visa applicant in a manner which will yield pertinent answers. If shame over a rape is a cultural norm (to the extent a woman might not tell her husband) then the CO will know this. But you can bet your bottom dollar the CO will still question the woman to see if the shame is real or not. It's their job.

If you think I'm turning up too much heat on the OP, then there's little hope for him when he really gets into the kitchen.

I agree....I can't see them getting around the issue of the child's paternal origin with the CO. I think they must understand that they are in for a hard road ahead in getting her a visa. I don't think anyone here would recommend representing anything but the facts of this already complicated case to the CO as that would only tangle the web more than it already is. In my opinion, the only choice is to tell it like it is and hopefully she is strong enough to convince the CO of her sincerity. Honestly, I am no expert, but I feel the odds are against them in getting a visa with the facts presented.

At the very least, I would expect a very tough interview. Even giving her the benefit of the doubt that she is just naive and made a lot of mistakes here, she has to contend with the fact there have been others before her that set the stage. Sadly, they have tried to get marriage based visas while carrying on a secondary relationship with another man or woman at home in the PI. I don't envy the CO that will hear this case.

Just another thought to throw out there. Being that the OP can't go to the PI for financial reasons at the moment and likely could not be at the interview, what if they just cancelled the petition for now and waited it out a few years. It might let some time pass, which could help in a few areas. One, it would allow them to see how there relationship is going to pan out after such a traumatic event. Many relationships fail from the fall-out of a sexual assault...even from a known perpetrator. It would also allow him to hopefully make more visits to her and build a better case that they both really love each other and its a bona fide relationship. Maybe I am off base here, but its worth some thought I think so I put it out there for consideration by daveg and discussion by others.

Any way you look at it, its a tough road ahead.

PS...The longer one waits to turn the rapist guy in, the less plausible her story will be to police AND to immigration. If you are even contemplating that possibility, she needs to gather up the mustard and cut it ASAP.

[Skeeter211 2]

One other thought.....I know money is a tight spot, but an immigration attorney would also be very good here and I think we would be remiss in not at least saying it as necessary advice to the OP.

[archie07 0]

Facts and Figures

Philippines

· An average of seven (7) women were raped daily in the Philippines in 2002, the same average recorded in 2001 (www.nscb.gov.ph).

· There were 3,913 rape cases from January to September 2003 according to the latest statistics from the Center for Women’s Resources (www.state.gov)

· Of the 478 rape cases filed in court, 40% happened in the survivor’s residence; 29% took place in far places and vacant lots; 12% in school and inside buildings (Women’s Legal Bureau).

· A study conducted by Women’s Legal Bureau found that 71% of rape perpetrators are people known to survivors. 25% of them are neighbors or people whom their parents know; 15% are their fathers or stepfathers; 8% are their friends.

· In the 478 rape cases from 1961-1992 filed in the Supreme Court, the youngest victim was eight (8) months old while the oldest was 67 (Women’s Legal Bureau, 1995).

[one...two...tree 2,762]

One other thought.....I know money is a tight spot, but an immigration attorney would also be very good here and I think we would be remiss in not at least saying it as necessary advice to the OP.

Probably the best advice to offer him.

[Dakine 26]

One other thought.....I know money is a tight spot, but an immigration attorney would also be very good here and I think we would be remiss in not at least saying it as necessary advice to the OP.

Probably the best advice to offer him.

OPs main problem looks like proof of a bonifide "loving" marriage. Be nice if he had the bucks to hire one but to me it would be much more productive if he came up with a couple grand in the next few months and went back to PI for a respectable time [Like a month] and attend the interview with his wife.

Been there! Didn't do that and was denied! Different circumstances tho.

Only good things will come of doing such.

It will show more proof they are for real and help pass the interview or he'll find out a one time visit to marry and chatting and caming really wasn't enuf to get to know his lady that well.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

One other thought.....I know money is a tight spot, but an immigration attorney would also be very good here and I think we would be remiss in not at least saying it as necessary advice to the OP.

Probably the best advice to offer him.

OPs main problem looks like proof of a bonifide "loving" marriage. Be nice if he had the bucks to hire one but to me it would be much more productive if he came up with a couple grand in the next few months and went back to PI for a respectable time [Like a month] and attend the interview with his wife.

Been there! Didn't do that and was denied! Different circumstances tho.

Only good things will come of doing such.

It will show more proof they are for real and help pass the interview or he'll find out a one time visit to marry and chatting and caming really wasn't enuf to get to know his lady that well.

That in itself wouldn't be a denial but I'd agree that only seeing her once in person combined with this situation and I just don't see how they'd make it through the interview successfully

Edited October 3, 2007 by Mister Fancypants

[neenuh 0]

I'm having the same problem here, my filipina wife doesn't believe the wifes story either. As for the cultural aspects alot can be learned from reading the Subic Rape Case if anyone wants to google it.

like i said earlier, i find it all dubious

i'm a filipina too

i understand raped women are protected by law and there are powerful/infuential organizations here in the philippines that promote and protect these women's rights and provide services to help them recover and move on from the trauma

perhaps filipinas who were raised in the rural areas may not be aware that they can get help for such things (i am not being condescending here)

just that not a lot of raped women feel safe to come out and disclose this information from fear of unfavorable treatment by the society

a major reason for this is that we are generally conservative, especially those who come from less urbanized areas

that subic rape case was committed by americans to a filipina and it was a huge thing here

and that filipina was given protection

then again that subic rape case was more than a rape case, if you think about it

[Mrs.J06 4]

In my opinion, the fact that she is willing to give the child to the family of the "rapist" is the biggest red flag.

I can't imagine a rape victim agreeing to such an arrangement, ever!

But then, that's just me...

[Caladan 19]

Are you all trying to tell me that a woman from the Philippines would be too ashamed after a rape to disclose it to her American husband after it happened?

I am NOT being a wise-a$$ - is that a cultural truth?

Rape is a very traumatic experience. It's difficult for me to understand why a woman would NOT tell her husband immediately. Telling your husband you have been violated isn't the same thing as telling everybody in the village.

If there is ANYTHING about this story that doesn't wash as culturally believable to the CO, it's not going to matter diddly-squat if the OP makes more visits or is even present for the interview. If the CO views the beneficiary as using an American citizen solely for the purpose of immigrating, the visa will be denied.

I could see delaying telling a spouse even in the case of an American woman, if it were a case of acquaintance rape, because of the shame and because of how awful people treat rape victims when it isn't a stranger jumping out of the bushes. I could easily see someone deciding to keep it quiet or not going to the cops. And that's without having a visa process to jeopardize.

I can even see keeping the baby. What I can't see is giving the baby to the rapist's family to raise. And while the OP's wife might be totally honest with him, the fact is that there's a more plausible story to the CO: girl has a Filipino boyfriend, means to use the American for a green card and petition for him, oops, gets pregnant, has the 'rapist' take care of the baby so that sometime after lifting conditions they both can follow to join.

[pushbrk 12,882]

Are you all trying to tell me that a woman from the Philippines would be too ashamed after a rape to disclose it to her American husband after it happened?

I am NOT being a wise-a$$ - is that a cultural truth?

Rape is a very traumatic experience. It's difficult for me to understand why a woman would NOT tell her husband immediately. Telling your husband you have been violated isn't the same thing as telling everybody in the village.

If there is ANYTHING about this story that doesn't wash as culturally believable to the CO, it's not going to matter diddly-squat if the OP makes more visits or is even present for the interview. If the CO views the beneficiary as using an American citizen solely for the purpose of immigrating, the visa will be denied.

I could see delaying telling a spouse even in the case of an American woman, if it were a case of acquaintance rape, because of the shame and because of how awful people treat rape victims when it isn't a stranger jumping out of the bushes. I could easily see someone deciding to keep it quiet or not going to the cops. And that's without having a visa process to jeopardize.

I can even see keeping the baby. What I can't see is giving the baby to the rapist's family to raise. And while the OP's wife might be totally honest with him, the fact is that there's a more plausible story to the CO: girl has a Filipino boyfriend, means to use the American for a green card and petition for him, oops, gets pregnant, has the 'rapist' take care of the baby so that sometime after lifting conditions they both can follow to join.

I'm pretty much on the page with you except there are some facts that mitigate the "more plausible story". The Filipino boyfriend in the story, is working in Korea. The parents will have the baby. Reuniting under the scenario you describe is a years long process that separates a mother and child for all those years. I doubt that's really the scenario but I don't doubt the CO will consider it and need to be convinced otherwise. Even if the CO thinks the true scenario is that the friend was a casual sex buddy and they had an accident, proving bona fides and getting a visa is going to be very difficult.