visa marriage fraud

[Jaylen Brit 0]

i agree ..most american people do not understand immigration and the process...they assume what they read in the usatoday is 100% true...

Brother Dude, most Americans don't realise you can't just 'get married' and move on over here (US) - until they look deeply into things. They 'assume' its as easy as saying 'I do'

(BTW - I didn't realise marrying in the UK on a VWP was now illegal either - so today is my day for education, lol)

[pax 0]

It's not that marrying in the UK on the equivalent of the VWP over there is illegal. For example, if two Americans wanted for whatever reason to get hitched somewhere in the UK (like a destination wedding), I believe that can be done visa-free. But (and any Brit correct me if I'm wrong on my understanding of this) any foreign national planning to marry a UKC in the UK must have a fiance/e visa, even if they don't plan to reside in the UK, as a marriage license won't be issued without one. Yes?

[faith 0]

i agree ..most american people do not understand immigration and the process...they assume what they read in the usatoday is 100% true...

heck, we are all going thru immigration and aren't there days where we all feel like we don't understand the process fully?

[Sister Fracas 5]

It's not that marrying in the UK on the equivalent of the VWP over there is illegal. For example, if two Americans wanted for whatever reason to get hitched somewhere in the UK (like a destination wedding), I believe that can be done visa-free. But (and any Brit correct me if I'm wrong on my understanding of this) any foreign national planning to marry a UKC in the UK must have a fiance/e visa, even if they don't plan to reside in the UK, as a marriage license won't be issued without one. Yes?

http://www.britainusa.com/visas/other_show...5&Other_ID=1334

If I read that correctly, it's not just fiance(e)s that need the entry clearance, but other marriage visitors as well.

Edited April 10, 2006 by Frances

[pax 0]

THANK you, Frances--I knew I had seen that page before and couldn't remember where!

[Fischkoepfin 1]

Wow.....now the tune has changed on this forum.

The anti-illegal immigrant issue always has the danger of spilling over to all immigrants. This is just one instance but I think we could see more. The American public does not have enough knowlegde (or sympathy for that matter) of what we have to go through.

Let's hope anti-illegal immigrant doesn't turn into anti-immigrant.

It was bound to; whoever thought this is just about illegals missed a point. Family-based immigrants are probably the second-most hated group because they supposedly only marry Americans to get green cards and to improve their standard of living.

This is why it is bad to unreflectedly chime into the chorus against illegals; noone gives a hoot about us either and the less there are of us the better (for your average, isolationist, native (as in not foreign-born) American Joe).

[Cristy 4]

Brother Dude, most Americans don't realise you can't just 'get married' and move on over here (US) - until they look deeply into things. They 'assume' its as easy as saying 'I do'

(BTW - I didn't realise marrying in the UK on a VWP was now illegal either - so today is my day for education, lol)

I had someone (from the US) say to me that Casey must not really love me, if he did he would have just brought me over and married me instead of this delay. Ummmmm ok.

[PsychoKat 0]

Wow.....now the tune has changed on this forum.

The anti-illegal immigrant issue always has the danger of spilling over to all immigrants. This is just one instance but I think we could see more. The American public does not have enough knowlegde (or sympathy for that matter) of what we have to go through.

Let's hope anti-illegal immigrant doesn't turn into anti-immigrant.

It was bound to; whoever thought this is just about illegals missed a point. Family-based immigrants are probably the second-most hated group because they supposedly only marry Americans to get green cards and to improve their standard of living.

This is why it is bad to unreflectedly chime into the chorus against illegals; noone gives a hoot about us either and the less there are of us the better (for your average, isolationist, native (as in not foreign-born) American Joe).

Yep and there's the rub. This thread has been interspersed with concern over what effect this process might have on those going through the process the "legal way"

If the love is real, a marriage surely will last a little longer.

####### is that supposed to mean??

Yeah...."last a little longer".......eh?

How much longer is for the rest of my life, till death do us part????

It's not a tough line. More hoops are necessary since marriage fraud contributes to the overall problem.

It becomes tough when you have to go through it yourself though, wouldn't you agree? Families that are kept apart even longer will show more strains the longer the process is...not saying that the bonds aren't strong and genuine, but having a more stressful process isn't going to make the relationships any healthier.

please don't make it harder than what it is....

I do hope more investigation wouldn't make our processes longer. Us poor souls trying to get to our soulmates.

And we're also seeing the anger and animosity many are feeling as they see reports of these rallies in the media, the general consensus being that they are all rallying to demand a "free ride". But having done my research I have found that although this might be the case for some, it is NOT the case for all. There are many US citizens involved in those rallies that are hoping to draw attention to family unity and the fact that the current remedies do not address that issue. These people either married or engaged to people who have been removed or deported in the past are now experiencing nearly insurmountable odds in their attempts at going through the process the "legal way". They WANT to, they are trying but not only are they living through even longer and more difficult processes than we are, some are faced with no options left available.

Now some might take the attitude of "serves them right for entering illegally" but there are US citizens involved that did nothing wrong other than fall in love with someone who had entered the country illegally in some manner, currently not a felony only a misdemeaner, but grounds for exclusion. Considering the lack of public knowledge regarding the family immigration process, (it's not unthinkable the US citizens had no idea of the hurdles they would face) coupled with the unlikelyhood that any of us dug into our prospective partners past PRIOR to falling in love with them to determine if they might be ineligible, it seems it would be worth digging deeper before allowing outraged anger the upper hand.

The public is judging this issue not on their own research, but on what the media tells them and gut reaction. It may seem ok to go with that flow right now, but if the public does the same regarding the family immigration process, as this article would encourage it to do, going with that flow isn't going to be ok anymore for those of us here.

[rebeccajo 14]

Let's hope anti-illegal immigrant doesn't turn into anti-immigrant.

Merc, there's always been an element of that. My fear is this adverse publicity will make it worse.

Be prepared for people to tell you that your wife probably shouldn't work in a job where she deals with the public because she is 'hard to understand'. Be prepared for people to say that it's easier to hire an american citizen because their 'background can be checked out more easily'. Be prepared for people to say that she should take any job she is offered (no matter what she could contribute over here) and be grateful because 'it's a start - what does she expect?'.

I could go on......

Yes I agree that the public needs to be informed about the LEGAL immigration process. Because they DON'T know what checks and balances the abusers are by-passing.

Edited April 10, 2006 by rebeccajo

[David&Erin_Owens 0]

If you can marry a U.S. citizen or legal permanent resident (a "green card" holder), you're guaranteed permanent access to the USA.

Oh really....guaranteed, huh??? And no one gets denied, huh? This reporter didn't do their homework.

A foreigner who marries a U.S. citizen can gain citizenship after two years rather than the usual five-year waiting period.

Two years, huh???? Oh really?

The DHS needs to investigate more immigrant marriages, and Congress should consider lengthening the time required for foreign-born spouses to gain a green card and citizenship. If the love is real, a marriage surely will last a little longer.

hang on folks....it ain't gonna get easier methinks. and hmmmm, all these illegal applications that are going to be processed...they won't affect our cases at all...right???

David was told by USCIS that he would be allowed to apply for United States Citizenship after two years as well.

[mercuryroad 0]

Let's hope anti-illegal immigrant doesn't turn into anti-immigrant.

Merc, there's always been an element of that. My fear is this adverse publicity will make it worse.

Be prepared for people to tell you that your wife probably shouldn't work in a job where she deals with the public because she is 'hard to understand'. Be prepared for people to say that it's easier to hire an american citizen because their 'background can be checked out more easily'. Be prepared for people to say that she should take any job she is offered (no matter what she could contribute over here) and be grateful because 'it's a start - what does she expect?'.

I could go on......

Yes I agree that the public needs to be informed about the LEGAL immigration process. Because they DON'T know what checks and balances the abusers are by-passing.

I totally agree with you......

In my opinion, for the average American, they make no distinction between illegal and legal immigrants. That's why we should be a little cautious when breaking out the flame throwers for the illegals. Public sentiment can be a strong thing. Don't let the Americans get word that people marrying USC are taking their jobs too.....the mob won't care if they are legal or not.....when it comes to their jobs - all of the foreigners in this country are just Mexicans in their eyes.

[rebeccajo 14]

In my opinion, for the average American, they make no distinction between illegal and legal immigrants. That's why we should be a little cautious when breaking out the flame throwers for the illegals......

True to a point. The anti-immigrant sentiment from the past though was purely bigotry or narrow-mindedness.

Now the risk is out there for rampant misinformation. Witness the original post.

I quoted you some fairly flaming comments up above. What MOST americans convey to me - after they learn of what we have done to process my husband LEGALLY - is utter disbelief over what we have had to endure, especially the delay to work legally. Most americans think you can just hope on a plane and work.

Mainly because so many have been swimming a river and doing so.

Edited April 10, 2006 by rebeccajo

[mercuryroad 0]

In my opinion, for the average American, they make no distinction between illegal and legal immigrants. That's why we should be a little cautious when breaking out the flame throwers for the illegals......

True to a point. The anti-immigrant sentiment from the past though was purely bigotry or narrow-mindedness.

Now the risk is out there for rampant misinformation. Witness the original post.

I quoted you some fairly flaming comments up above. What MOST americans convey to me - after they learn of what we have done to process my husband LEGALLY - is utter disbelief over what we have had to endure, especially the delay to work legally. Most americans think you can just hope on a plane and work.

Mainly because so many have been swimming a river and doing so.

Of course after it is explained then there is some more sympathy and understanding.....but when it comes to US jobs, that all goes out the window. Some of the arguments regarding illegal immigrants could easily be viewed for legal immigrants as well. There are many people that get married to USC, and if some numbers started being published and we were in a tough economic state, how fast would the American general public turn on all immigrants.....pretty quick in my estimation. That's when all of the foreigners become the new border crossing Mexicans taking their jobs.

My only point is that we need to be careful, because our spouses could be next on radar at some point.

I believe the anti-illegal immigrant is taking a turn from the issues and becoming more of a personal battle against Mexico, which has certainly been the focus. The protests are made out to be pro-Mexico and some people think they want a free ride and are against immigration reform. That's not really true. What they want is a legal option to do the work that American employers have been willing to hire them to do. Most would rather have a viable legal alternative than risking their life to cross the border.

There are loopholes that exist for people marrying a USC while on a tourist visa.....why don't illegals have a loophole or provision that allows them to do something that was not allowed? They are only illegal because there is not an infrastructure in place to handle the changing face of the current work environment. Policy has to catch up with reality.

That is what the issue should be about......not a blanket hatred towards Mexicans or the view that they want a free ride because that blanket has plenty of room under it for people that go about things the legal way too.

[meauxna 15]

Mainly because so many have been swimming a river and doing so.

I think I want to take argument with that one, r'jo. I think, and I haven't looked this up, that it may be that that *was* the rule in the long ago days. Marriage to a UK citizen, for example, conferred automatic UK citizenship to a foreign spouse (you or me). Clearly that is no more. Oh, and wives didn't have their own passport, they were put on the husband's (all the preceding is in ref to the UK). I suspect that there was a similar rule for US/foreign marriages.

However, I was just reading the neatest story in our paper about the War Brides from WWII; women from "London to Melbourne" who fell in love with American GIs.

Congress passed the War Brides Act in Dec 1945 to ease immigration laws for these women. Soon after, Operation War Bride "began delivering to US shores the women who'd won American soldiers' hearts abroad".

Estimates are that 1 million women from 50 countries wed Americans between 1942-1952. Note that the most sweeping changes to our immigration policy took place in 1952, and consider what global communications and travel were back then.

My point? Hang on, I'm getting there. How long did to take to get your foreign bride or fiance to the US? Remember, they passed a special law to let these gals get here...

12-16 months plus travel time.

Women traveled on the so-called bride ships that carried 'tens of thousands', and the had to go to a military base abroad to go through a bride processing center (live in barracks etc).

Oh yeah, back to my objection. People sneaking over the border has never been the issue that it is now; there were legal (if humanely vile) programs like the Bracero program that let people come to the US.

I wonder if, in the olden days, foreign spouses could get legal status simply by marriage and that is what is more responsible for people's attitude about what our spouses have to go through.

The part I usually try to underscore to the uninformed is that it's the disconnect between our lawmakers and our law enforcement that's made the problem. It does zero good to pass a law that no one is going to enforce; that's what got us where we are today.

Roundabout and not too strong, but I really want to tell about the war brides, their stories are amazing!

name='mercuryroad' date='Apr 10 2006, 03:51 PM' post='121849']

how fast would the American general public turn on all immigrants.....pretty quick in my estimation. That's when all of the foreigners become the new border crossing Mexicans taking their jobs.

My only point is that we need to be careful, because our spouses could be next on radar at some point.

No doubt! The pump is already primed. Can you say "outsourcing"?

Policy has to catch up with reality.

Exactly; see my wandering post above!

Edited April 10, 2006 by meauxna

[ChristinaM 0]

I'd close the tourist adjuster loophole. It is legal in some cases, but it's certainly a loophole. If I couldn't have adjusted from the VWP, would I have gone home to sit out the K1? Heck yeah. In fact we filed one.

I think that in order to keep the sentiment "anti-illegal" as opposed to "anti-immigrant", my feeling is that what we can do as an immigrant community is not to dwell on how the illegals are dealt with. At the end of the day, that's an issue bigger than us. What we can talk knowledgably about is the legal immigration process, and how any reform which goes through must also consider the rights of USCs trying to bring their loved ones to this country. That's something which is near and dear to most on here, and something which needs to be addressed in any immigration reform - not simply swept under the carpet because the focus is on those who EWI. Whether your personal issues are with the separation, the cost or the prohibitive timeframes, the red tape and bureaucracy or the procedure of obtaining an EAD or SSN, the chance to have a meaningful impact on those issues will not come again in a hurry.

Personally, I'm against granting amnesty. I believe that the wider social implications of changing the ethnic tapestry of the US would be good for the country as a whole over the longer term, causing big business to reconsider what a fair living wage is, allowing supply and demand to stabilise and perhaps for the American "entitlement mentality" to dissipate a little. Maybe high school dropouts need to learn that they are not automatically above a Mexican with a graduate degree, and that there is satisfaction in having a job - any job. The changes to the education and healthcare systems which would be affordable in states which lose a high number of their population due to being illegal could be dramatic and far-reaching. I understand that there are less people to purchase goods, pay taxes, all the rest of it. I've not got my head in the clouds and I don't have an answer. But I think the big picture has the potential to be beautiful.

So what can we as an immigrant community do? In my view, stay out of the illegals' issues. Let them deal with their fate, and concentrate on our own. Concentrate on raising awareness of what legal immigrants go through to get here, what the cost is and how long it takes. There's far too much ignorance out there, much of it being purpetrated by the media. Write an op-ed piece, keep a blog and get your name out there, write to your senators, congresspeople, George W. Bush. Make sure that your boss knows that you ARE legal, and keep your status sound. Let's focus on making it better for those who follow us and OUR needs, because the illegals as sure as heck will be focussing on theirs.

Edited April 10, 2006 by clmarsh