Iranian leader ..Mr. President, you exhibit all the signs of a petty and cruel dictator

[one...two...tree 2,762]

http://tinyurl.com/348fuk

What was said?

Farsi: "Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."

Translation: "The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".

Word by word: Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).

Words not used: Israel, wiped off, wipe out, map, world, Earth, face.

The western phrase, 'wiped off' or 'wiped out', were not used in the quote, nor was the "state" of Israel. 'Nagsheh', the word for map was not there either.

Essential reading:

http://tinyurl.com/348fuk

(orignal unedited article)

Rumour of the century (wiping Israel off the map)

[Alex+R 0]

I was there today. Dude is completely crazy. You shoulda heard the demented rambly speech about religion and science that nobody reported on because it was too damn boring.

So....how can you live without teh gays? Who do the women have for best friends? Each other!? Who will cut their hair and tell them how to dress!? Hmmm nevermind... the government will...

Edited September 25, 2007 by Alex+R

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I was there today. Dude is completely crazy. You shoulda heard the demented rambly speech about religion and science that nobody reported on because it was too damn boring.

So....how can you live without teh gays? Who do the women have for best friends? Each other!? Who will cut their hair and tell them how to dress!? Hmmm nevermind... the government will...

You're back!!

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

"We don't have homosexuals".

Hmmm...

I've visited the region. I beg to differ.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

This is interesting...just found this on youtube.

Co-Host of the "The View" doesn't know if world is round

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

http://tinyurl.com/348fuk

What was said?

Farsi: "Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."

Translation: "The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".

Word by word: Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).

Words not used: Israel, wiped off, wipe out, map, world, Earth, face.

The western phrase, 'wiped off' or 'wiped out', were not used in the quote, nor was the "state" of Israel. 'Nagsheh', the word for map was not there either.

Essential reading:

http://tinyurl.com/348fuk

(orignal unedited article)

Rumour of the century (wiping Israel off the map)

We get it Steven.... the west is bad. I feel your guilt. Be my guest and move to Iran.

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

I was there today. Dude is completely crazy. You shoulda heard the demented rambly speech about religion and science that nobody reported on because it was too damn boring.

So....how can you live without teh gays? Who do the women have for best friends? Each other!? Who will cut their hair and tell them how to dress!? Hmmm nevermind... the government will...

and just where have you been?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I was there today. Dude is completely crazy. You shoulda heard the demented rambly speech about religion and science that nobody reported on because it was too damn boring.

So....how can you live without teh gays? Who do the women have for best friends? Each other!? Who will cut their hair and tell them how to dress!? Hmmm nevermind... the government will...

Hooray, Alex! :dance: :dance: You have been sorely missed here.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

http://tinyurl.com/348fuk

What was said?

Farsi: "Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."

Translation: "The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".

Word by word: Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).

Words not used: Israel, wiped off, wipe out, map, world, Earth, face.

The western phrase, 'wiped off' or 'wiped out', were not used in the quote, nor was the "state" of Israel. 'Nagsheh', the word for map was not there either.

Essential reading:

http://tinyurl.com/348fuk

(orignal unedited article)

Rumour of the century (wiping Israel off the map)

We get it Steven.... the west is bad. I feel your guilt. Be my guest and move to Iran.

Those beating the war drums are who I'm worried about.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

http://tinyurl.com/348fuk

What was said?

Farsi: "Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."

Translation: "The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".

Word by word: Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).

Words not used: Israel, wiped off, wipe out, map, world, Earth, face.

The western phrase, 'wiped off' or 'wiped out', were not used in the quote, nor was the "state" of Israel. 'Nagsheh', the word for map was not there either.

Essential reading:

http://tinyurl.com/348fuk

(orignal unedited article)

Rumour of the century (wiping Israel off the map)

We get it Steven.... the west is bad. I feel your guilt. Be my guest and move to Iran.

Those beating the war drums are who I'm worried about.

I'm worried about those (Iran) nuking Israel. yeah, yeah, Israel is the devil.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

Let's take a brief analysis of Iran:

• till 1979, it was an absolute monarchy except for a few years (foreshortened by UK/US-backed coup) under Moussadegh in 1950's
• Absolute mullahist-dictatorship 1979-1989 (when Khomeini kicked bucket); still, there is a "high council" of mullahs (headed by Khamenei) which still has "what we say goes" authority

It certainly is not a democracy!

[BabyBlueSusie 1]

I'm worried about those (Iran) nuking Israel. yeah, yeah, Israel is the devil.

is this the 1950s? i thought we got over this...

nuclear weapons have been in the hands of crazy people since they were developed, its not something new...how come we are so suddenly worried about iran here?

i think its pretty clear that nukes are only used as a threat because of what the consequences would be if one were to drop the bomb...sure we did it back in the day, but it was different then because we were the only ones holding

Edited September 25, 2007 by babybluesusie

[GaryC 7]

http://tinyurl.com/348fuk

What was said?

Farsi: "Imam ghoft een rahim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safieh-ye ruzgar mahv shaved."

Translation: "The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".

Word by word: Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rahim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safieh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shaved (vanish from).

Words not used: Israel, wiped off, wipe out, map, world, Earth, face.

The western phrase, 'wiped off' or 'wiped out', were not used in the quote, nor was the "state" of Israel. 'Nagsheh', the word for map was not there either.

Essential reading:

http://tinyurl.com/348fuk

(original unedited article)

Rumour of the century (wiping Israel off the map)

Total and utter BS. Little Hitler has said many time he wants to wipe Israel off the map. But if you think that it's all an issue of Western Media Bias then I offer this to you. It's the English Al Jazeera web site. I think that they can translate what he said correctly and I doubt if they are bound by any western "conspiracy"

Ahmadinejad: Wipe Israel off map

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has openly called for Israel to be wiped off the map.

Ahmadinejad addressed students at a conference

"The establishment of the Zionist regime was a move by the world oppressor against the Islamic world," the president told a conference in Tehran on Wednesday, entitled The World without Zionism.

"The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land," he said.

"As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," said Ahmadinejad, referring to Iran's revolutionary leader Ayat Allah Khomeini.

His comments were the first time in years that such a high-ranking Iranian official has called for Israel's eradication, even though such slogans are still regularly used at government

rallies.

Call for unity

Addressing about 4000 students gathered in an Interior Ministry conference hall, Ahmadinejad also called for Palestinian unity, resistance and a point "where the annihilation of the Zionist regime will come".

Khatami was in favour of

'dialogue among civilisations'

"The Islamic umma (community) will not allow its historic enemy to live in its heartland," he said in the fiery speech that centred on a "historic war between the oppressor and the world of Islam".

The term "oppressor" is used by the clerical government to refer to the United States.

"We should not settle for a piece of land," he said of Israel's pullout from the Gaza Strip.

"Anyone who signs a treaty which recognises the entity of Israel means he has signed the surrender of the Muslim world," Ahmadinejad said.

"Any leaders in the Islamic umma who recognise Israel face the wrath of their own people."

Major change

Ahmadinejad, a veteran of Iran's hardline Revolutionary Guards, took office in August after scoring a landslide win in a June presidential election.

His tone represents a major change from that of former president Mohammad Khatami, whose favoured topic was "dialogue among civilisations" and who led an effort to improve Iran's relations with the West.

But Ahmadinejad instead spoke of a "historic war".

"It dates backs hundreds of years. Sometimes Islam has advanced. Sometimes nobody was winning. Unfortunately over the past 300 years, the world of Islam has been in retreat," he lamented.

"The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land"

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

President of Iran

"One hundred years ago the last trench of Islam fell, when the oppressors went towards the creation the Zionist regime. It is using it as a fort to spread its aims in the heart of the Islamic world."

In September, Bahrain announced it was ending a decades-old law banning trade ties with Israel. Earlier this month, Qatar said it was donating US$6 million to help build a soccer stadium for a mixed Arab-Jewish team, the first such financial assistance by an Arab state for any town inside Israel.

Unprecedented steps

The modest but unprecedented steps were seen as a response to Israel's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in September. Nevertheless, Ahmadinejad said, "There is no doubt that the new wave (of attacks) in Palestine will soon wipe off this disgraceful blot (Israel) from the face of the Islamic world."

"Ahmadinejad has clearly declared the doctrine of his government. He is returning Iran to the revolutionary goals it was pursuing in the 1980s," said Mohammad Sadeq Hosseini, an expert on Middle Eastern affairs.

"By these comments, Ahmadinejad is committing himself to those goals. He is also sending the message that his government won't back down."

Israeli response

Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev issued a vague response. "Today, Israelis heard two extremists speak openly about destroying the Jewish state. One was the new president of Iran, and the other was the leader of Hamas, Mahmoud Zahar.

Scott McClellan said US fears have proved accurate "And it appears the problem with these extremists is that they followed through on their violent declarations with violent actions."

The United States said Ahmadinejad's remarks proved the accuracy of Washington's fears about Iran's contentious nuclear programme.

"I think it reconfirms what we have been saying about the regime in Iran. It underscores the concerns we have about Iran's nuclear intentions," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said.

Ebrahim Yazdi, a former Iranian foreign minister, said Ahmadinejad's remarks harmed Iran.

"Such comments provoke the international community against us. It's not to Iran's interests at all. It's harmful to Iran to make such a statement," he said.

He said the comments gave Israel justification for urging the world to take a tougher stand against Iran and refer its nuclear programme to the UN Security Council for

possible sanctions.

http://english.aljazeera.net/English/archi...ArchiveId=15816

[one...two...tree 2,762]

First of all, Gary, he spoke in Farsi, not Arabic - find an actual quote of him saying that in Farsi with a verbatim translation into English. He may be a little on the Hitler side of things, but it's best that we get the facts straight before we go to war on what we think he said.

....

Just How Far Did They Go, Those Words Against Israel?

EVER since he spoke at an anti-Zionism conference in Tehran last October, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran has been known for one statement above all. As translated by news agencies at the time, it was that Israel "should be wiped off the map." Iran's nuclear program and sponsorship of militant Muslim groups are rarely mentioned without reference to the infamous map remark.

Here, for example, is R. Nicholas Burns, the under secretary of state for political affairs, recently: "Given the radical nature of Iran under Ahmadinejad and its stated wish to wipe Israel off the map of the world, it is entirely unconvincing that we could or should live with a nuclear Iran."

But is that what Mr. Ahmadinejad said? And if so, was it a threat of war? For months, a debate among Iran specialists over both questions has been intensifying. It starts as a dispute over translating Persian but quickly turns on whether the United States (with help from Israel) is doing to Iran what some believe it did to Iraq — building a case for military action predicated on a faulty premise.

"Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to wipe Israel off the map because no such idiom exists in Persian," remarked Juan Cole, a Middle East specialist at the University of Michigan and critic of American policy who has argued that the Iranian president was misquoted. "He did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse." Since Iran has not "attacked another country aggressively for over a century," he said in an e-mail exchange, "I smell the whiff of war propaganda."

Jonathan Steele, a columnist for the left-leaning Guardian newspaper in London, recently laid out the case this way: "The Iranian president was quoting an ancient statement by Iran's first Islamist leader, the late Ayatollah Khomeini, that 'this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time,' just as the Shah's regime in Iran had vanished. He was not making a military threat. He was calling for an end to the occupation of Jerusalem at some point in the future. The 'page of time' phrase suggests he did not expect it to happen soon."

Mr. Steele added that neither Khomeini nor Mr. Ahmadinejad suggested that Israel's "vanishing" was imminent or that Iran would be involved in bringing it about. "But the propaganda damage was done," he wrote, "and Western hawks bracket the Iranian president with Hitler as though he wants to exterminate Jews."

If Mr. Steele and Mr. Cole are right, not one word of the quotation — Israel should be wiped off the map — is accurate.

But translators in Tehran who work for the president's office and the foreign ministry disagree with them. All official translations of Mr. Ahmadinejad's statement, including a description of it on his Web site (www.president.ir/eng/), refer to wiping Israel away. Sohrab Mahdavi, one of Iran's most prominent translators, and Siamak Namazi, managing director of a Tehran consulting firm, who is bilingual, both say "wipe off" or "wipe away" is more accurate than "vanish" because the Persian verb is active and transitive.

The second translation issue concerns the word "map." Khomeini's words were abstract: "Sahneh roozgar." Sahneh means scene or stage, and roozgar means time. The phrase was widely interpreted as "map," and for years, no one objected. In October, when Mr. Ahmadinejad quoted Khomeini, he actually misquoted him, saying not "Sahneh roozgar" but "Safheh roozgar," meaning pages of time or history. No one noticed the change, and news agencies used the word "map" again.

Ahmad Zeidabadi, a professor of political science in Tehran whose specialty is Iran-Israel relations, explained: "It seems that in the early days of the revolution the word 'map' was used because it appeared to be the best meaningful translation for what he said. The words 'sahneh roozgar' are metaphorical and do not refer to anything specific. Maybe it was interpreted as 'book of countries,' and the closest thing to that was a map. Since then, we have often heard 'Israel bayad az naghshe jographya mahv gardad' — Israel must be wiped off the geographical map. Hard-liners have used it in their speeches."

The final translation issue is Mr. Ahmadinejad's use of "occupying regime of Jerusalem" rather than "Israel."

To some analysts, this means he is calling for regime change, not war, and therefore it need not be regarded as a call for military action. Professor Cole, for example, says: "I am entirely aware that Ahmadinejad is hostile to Israel. The question is whether his intentions and capabilities would lead to a military attack, and whether therefore pre-emptive warfare is prescribed. I am saying no, and the boring philology is part of the reason for the no."

But to others, "occupying regime" signals more than opposition to a certain government; the phrase indicates the depth of the Iranian president's rejection of a Jewish state in the Middle East because he refuses even to utter the name Israel. He has said that the Palestinian issue "does not lend itself to a partial territorial solution" and has called Israel "a stain" on Islam that must be erased. By contrast, Mr. Ahmadinejad's predecessor, Mohammad Khatami, said that if the Palestinians accepted Israel's existence, Iran would go along.

When combined with Iran's longstanding support for Palestinian Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah of Lebanon, two groups that have killed numerous Israelis, and Mr. Ahmadinejad's refusal to acknowledge the Holocaust, it is hard to argue that, from Israel's point of view, Mr. Ahmadinejad poses no threat. Still, it is true that he has never specifically threatened war against Israel.

So did Iran's president call for Israel to be wiped off the map? It certainly seems so. Did that amount to a call for war? That remains an open question.

Nazila Fathi contributed reporting from Tehran for this article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/weekinre...nyt&emc=rss

Edited September 25, 2007 by Mister Fancypants

[GaryC 7]

First of all, Gary, he spoke in Farsi, not Arabic - find an actual quote of him saying that in Farsi with a verbatim translation into English. He may be a little on the Hitler side of things, but it's best that we get the facts straight before we go to war on what we think he said.

....

So you think Al Jazeera is a western media dupe? Little Hitler has made no bones about his goal to destroy Israel. To think anything else is just fooling yourself.