Police certificate - Abkhazia, Republic of Georgia (cross-post)

[Chris Parker 11]

The thing about an RFE is it comes with specific instructions, so maybe they'll ask you for a specific form # or "letter of compliance or non-compliance" etc.

That should be a help to you as it will tell you exactly what they're looking for.

Who knows, you may still get off with doing absolutely nothing. (Good luck!!! That's the one I'm hoping for!)

NVC RFE's tend to be something like:

Missing documents: x,y, & z. Please return the missing information to us within one year from the date of this letter, or your registration and fees will expire.

NVC is run by contractors, not by Dept. of State personnel actually, so they are supposed to be just following fixed, standard instructions when they review the application and supporting documents submitted.

But, yes, I suppose it is possible we'll get get through the two NVC reviews, and the consular officer at interview, without needing to address this issue. Of course I hope this will be so and I thank you for your support, but of course that is not supposed to be likely to happen...

Edited October 11, 2007 by Chris Parker

[Chris Parker 11]

Why not just leave it alone?

If you don't bring it up, maybe they won't ask. That was a long time ago, and if all of her papers are good now, who really cares about digging that deep in the past.

You could be stressing a little too much on this one. Seems you've done all you can do.

Well, we made the strongest attempt yet to try to get this police certificate from Republic of Georgia ...

We gave a friend in Armenia with an Armenian passport a notarized application letter and a notarized power of attorney from the immigrant visa beneficiary in Russia to go to Tbilisi from the Armenia-Georgia border side to try to get the police certificate for us.

The friend wisely checked with the Georgian consulate in Yerevan, Armenia just before embarking on this extraordinary journey, to make sure all plans were in order. The Georgian consulate told the friend nothing, except that the police certificate application must be brought in person to Tbilisi. Nevertheless, Georgian border authorities would not allow the friend to enter their country. In the story relayed back to us of this ordeal, the Georgian border officials on the ground told the friend with the authorization letter that anyone from Russia or Abkhazia (or, apparently having any ties to such a person or traveling on their behalf, as the friend was) must pay a $3000 border crossing fee and/or serve 3 years imprisonment, per Georgian Presidential decree. You do not want to be in that kind of circumstance!

That's it for me, no matter what the U.S. embassy's country-specific reciprocity sheet says for Georgia, there is currently no way, (1) by mail, or (2) in person, or (3) via consulate, for us to get a police certificate or letter of "record unavailable" from the Republic of Georgia for former residence in Abkhazia. All the borders to that country are closed, in every way, by the country itself, for this purpose.

Now, are there any suggestions from anyone here on what the affidavit from the friend (now safely back in Armenia, thank God) about this ordeal to obtain the police certificate should or should not say?

Edited October 29, 2007 by Chris Parker

[slim 1,525]

I would have the friend write a brief description of what happened during the attempt, with all contact info and get it notarized, send it to the fiancee and have her take that to her interview.

You've obviously tried everything.

Good luck in all of this. Keep us posted!

[Chris Parker 11]

I would have the friend write a brief description of what happened during the attempt, with all contact info and get it notarized, send it to the fiancee and have her take that to her interview.

For political reasons, notaries won't notarize letters like this, and the friend as well is afraid to even speak of the ordeal she went through. We have a simple handwritten letter, that will have to do!

UPDATE: Visit to the Embassy of Georgia in Moscow yesterday while waiting for medical exam results. Initially was told that Georgian police certificates can be obtained thru the consulate and it takes about 2 months. Then tried to actually apply for one, however, and upon seeing Russian passport, was told that only Georgian citizens can order their police certificate through the consulate. No, they won't put that in writing either!

That's the real end of the line for this endeavor. I cannot think of anything more the U.S. consular officer could ask us to do to try to get this police certificate---it appears to be very unobtainable to this particular class of applicants (Russian citizens who formerly resided in Abkhazia). We have bits and pieces of indirect evidence of the our attempts to try to obtain it, and that's the best that we can do. Hopefully the actual U.S. consular officers doing immigrant visa interviews know this already... (as other posters in this thread seem to suggest, a glimmer of hope after fighting a losing battle)

Edited December 22, 2007 by Chris Parker

[slim 1,525]

You guys really have exhausted all efforts. I don't see how they could deny your visa strictly on the lack of a police report from Abkhazia. After all, it doesn't technically exist! (Krakhozia, da!) And anyway, that was like 30 years ago. You have tried everything and have it documented. That should be good enough.

Good luck at the interview! Hope to see an approval message on here soon.

[Chris Parker 11]

Okay, the interview was today, this was one of the issues, here's basically how I'm told the situation went...

Background: NVC completed the case with just the Russian police certificate and made no determination about whether a second police certificate from Georgia would also be required.

At check-in, the embassy did ask for a police certificate from Georgia. When told we didn't have it, the clerk ask a consular officer how to proceed. They allowed her to interview without it.

At the interview, the question was asked about if she had tried to get a police certificate from Georgia. She explained we had tried but could not get it (maybe more detail was provided orally, I'm not sure yet). The consular officer then waived the requirement for this police certificate and continued the interview. No documents were requested to prove the attempts to get the police certificate, though we had what we could to show fo it but nothing official from Georgia.

So, the conclusion is you must make some reasonable efforts to obtain police certificates from other former Soviet republics and they will be asked for, but NVC and the embassy seems pretty aware that they are usually unobtainable, at least in the case of Georgia at the present time with the borders between the countries closed, and in particular for people from Abkhazia who are repugnant to Georgia.

Glad this issue is finally resolved and done with!

Edited January 10, 2008 by Chris Parker

[mox 298]

Very interesting, thanks for that followup.

So...she was approved then?

[Chris Parker 11]

Very interesting, thanks for that followup.

So...she was approved then?

They approved her.

During the interview, the consular officer also could not find the RUSSIA police certificate that was previously submitted to NVC. However, she had a copy of it with her. While she was getting the copy out or after showing it, the consular officer found the original police certificate. Actually, I get the impression there were two consular officers interviewing her, maybe one was new and being supervised by the other or something. Then there was some question about how long she had lived in Russia. Were all of your answers on the application truthful? And that's about it. Original birth and divorce certificate were returned without even asking for them. Since there is no marriage involved in this case (natural mother petitioned for by adult U.S. citizen daughter), no proof of relationship was asked for, nor any other questions really.

Then, when she got home, they called and said they forgot to fingerprint her!

So, she had to go back to the embassy the same day to give fingerprints. At least they called the same day, since she is leaving Moscow tomorrow morning!

We were told the visa we should get the visa by mail from DHL in about a week. Waiting for that to happen now so everyone can finally come home! I have the tracking number from the DHL airbill and will be checking it daily now so they have a heads up about when to expect the delivery to occur at home.

That's about it. I asked the ICE officer earlier this week myself when returning from Russia about what line she go on with the immigrant visa. If traveling with the U.S. citizen relative (spouse,parent,daughter,etc.), they can all go on the U.S. Citizens line since most of her admission will actually occur in secondary inspection for processing for permanent resident card production. Plan to buy the plane tickets for everyone once that visa finally arrives, hopefully the airfares will improve next week.

Edited January 10, 2008 by Chris Parker

[slim 1,525]

Congrats for finally being done with this!

Good luck having the MIL around........ seriously though, congrats.

[mox 298]

Very interesting, thanks for that followup.

So...she was approved then?

They approved her.

Congratulations!!!!

[Chris Parker 11]

She explained we had tried but could not get it (maybe more detail was provided orally, I'm not sure yet). The consular officer then waived the requirement for this police certificate and continued the interview. No documents were requested to prove the attempts to get the police certificate, though we had what we could to show fo it but nothing official from Georgia.

Actually, as a further update to this, they actually did ask for evidence of the attempts made to get the Georgian police certificate. However, the document they were most interested in and upon which they made the decision to waive the requirement was none of our actual documents showing attempts made, but rather our printout of their own Consular Information Sheet for Georgia, which officially discusses the political situation of Abkhazia and the closed border situation between Georgia and Russia. Never underestimate the value of showing the embassy their own documents?

Edited January 11, 2008 by Chris Parker

[slim 1,525]

Never underestimate the value of showing the embassy their own documents?

So true!

Applies here in the States too. I've read so many times on VJ where people have typed "I showed them a printout of the law/regulation/policy/etc., and they still wouldn't give me the #$(%(%)))! because the names were misspelled."

Crazy govt. employees!