RFE: Circumstance of Meeting

[Amarach 0]

This is my first post, and I really wish I had found this forum months and months ago.

It has been great reading the support and information you guys help each other with. My fiance is from Belgium and I am American. We met while overseas and applied in April for the K-1.

The other day I got the RFE in the mail which asked for further Evidence of us meeting...

I included: Plane tickets, Itineraries, dated photos, a letter from my boss that she had met him and seen us together, his Amex bills from visiting me here in the states, etc...

The Circumstance of Meeting is what has me worried. I'm not really sure how detailed to get and I would love advice... This is what I have so far (as well as a photo of our first meeting- well one taken that week). Last names and those of friends omitted for this posting.

Circumstance of Meeting

Tom ----------- (Beneficiary) was visiting Italy with two friends (J and M) when I (Adriane ---------, Petitioner) and my friends originally met them. This was in June, 2005.

They spent a few days exploring Italy with us before returning to Belgium and continuing on to Norway for their back packing trip. Afterwards we all played games online together and chatted for a few months when MW and I decided to go see Belgium for ourselves. After that trip ended Tom and I considered dating but put it off for a couple more months.

Starting in September 2005 we started traveling back and forth (some of the tickets are in this packet) and began our romantic relationship. After I moved back stateside in June 2006 he came to visit me one more time before we made the decision to apply for a fiancé visa. Now we are just hoping for the best!

The photo from below is from Tom’s original trip with friends to Italy.

---------------------------------------

I would truly appreciate any advice though I plan to mail this out as soon as possible.

Sincere Regards,

Adriane

Edited September 20, 2007 by Amarach

[chris4gretchen 1]

plane tickets can be bought and then not used, itinerary also. pictures can be faked or dates added etc. A letter from soemone isnt going to be proof.

We submitted Boarding passes, Visa stamp photocopies of passport showing we were in the same country at same time, receipts for hotels in both our names, Pictures of us at the premier of the latest harry potter movie with dated ticket stubs proving we were together at a fixed point in time.

Pictures in a bank in front of a money exchange sign will show date and current exchange rate. that is better than dated pictures etc. Sounds like you will need to just send them what you have. did you keep the boarding passes? they are very important showing you got on the plane. Do you have visa stamps in your passport? pictures together are secondary evidence and dont prove meeting within 2 years. i can make the date in my camera say 1849 or 2009. credit card bills probably wont do it.

Chris

[Jasman0717 9]

plane tickets can be bought and then not used, itinerary also. pictures can be faked or dates added etc. A letter from soemone isnt going to be proof.

We submitted Boarding passes, Visa stamp photocopies of passport showing we were in the same country at same time, receipts for hotels in both our names, Pictures of us at the premier of the latest harry potter movie with dated ticket stubs proving we were together at a fixed point in time.

Pictures in a bank in front of a money exchange sign will show date and current exchange rate. that is better than dated pictures etc. Sounds like you will need to just send them what you have. did you keep the boarding passes? they are very important showing you got on the plane. Do you have visa stamps in your passport? pictures together are secondary evidence and dont prove meeting within 2 years. i can make the date in my camera say 1849 or 2009. credit card bills probably wont do it.

Chris

This is what we submitted also

[rebeccajo 14]

OP, you are on the right track.

Did you explain how you met (and last when you were together) or just send evidence?

[Amarach 0]

OP, you are on the right track.

Did you explain how you met (and last when you were together) or just send evidence?

That's what I have in my original post.

I can't include boarding passes, we didn't know we had to keep them. We traveled around the European Union- they don't stamp pass ports doing that and when he came here he has a Belgian passport- it's electronic. No stamps.

We decided to file after he left last time and didn't realize we would need so much stuff.

I have tons of photos I am sending but no dates other than what I say. Would my daughter's age changing help? They have her birth certificate so they know her age...

[Sinergy 3]

hotel reciepts, maybe a couple pics of you together, visa stamp on passport, again boarding passes. i also used train tickets from romania as well as subway tickets. i also had the lease to the apartment we had there together, i think that was enough proof. anything that shows you were atleast there in her city within the last 2 years will help.

credit card reciepts that you signed. i cant think of anything else, but i think most has been mentioned

good luck

[Bill y Bella 0]

Did you not submit any of the things you mentioned with your I-129F?

You asked about the letter. I think it is detailed enough and maybe a little too much. I had some difficulty figuring out who was who in the beginning. I would suggest simplifying it. The primary purpose is to help the adjudicator know when you were together. He does not need to know who said I love you first, etc. Just tell them the times and places when you were together and hopefully provide evidence to back it up.

I also think your evidence of meeting is a little weak. You need to concentrate on what is considered primary evidence. I would suggest adding copies of all pages of both passports and circling the stamps that provide evidence that you were both in the same country at the same time. Boarding passes would be great to add also if you have them.

On the other hand, if you do not have any more primary evidence to submit, them bury them in secondary evidence, i.e photos, itineraries, credit card bills, hotel bills, etc. You really need a lot of secondary evidence to overcome a shortage of primary evidence.

Good luck!

[rebeccajo 14]

Ok.

To me, your letter isn't clear. It's not clear as to when you saw each other last. The only date I see referenced is June 2005.

I would rewrite the letter giving more specific dates and re-send the evidence.

It could be your information was unclear - it could be they lost that part of the packet entirely.

Oh....I just re-read better. Sorry I am multitasking.

I'm not sure what it is about your letter that's not working.

Edited September 20, 2007 by rebeccajo

[Bill y Bella 0]

Did you not submit any of the things you mentioned with your I-129F?

You asked about the letter. I think it is detailed enough and maybe a little too much. I had some difficulty figuring out who was who in the beginning. I would suggest simplifying it. The primary purpose is to help the adjudicator know when you were together. He does not need to know who said I love you first, etc. Just tell them the times and places when you were together and hopefully provide evidence to back it up.

I also think your evidence of meeting is a little weak. You need to concentrate on what is considered primary evidence. I would suggest adding copies of all pages of both passports and circling the stamps that provide evidence that you were both in the same country at the same time. Boarding passes would be great to add also if you have them.

On the other hand, if you do not have any more primary evidence to submit, them bury them in secondary evidence, i.e photos, itineraries, credit card bills, hotel bills, etc. You really need a lot of secondary evidence to overcome a shortage of primary evidence.

Good luck!

I saw your latest post after I sent this. It looks like you don't have the things that I suggested.

A couple of other ideas.

Can you obtain frequent flier reports that show your trips?

You have your passport stamps, can you come up with one stamp that matches up with a fairly solid piece of evidence that he was in the same place at the same time?

Is there a way to get a printout of the Belgian passport? I bet someone somewhere could print out everything in his passport.

[Bill y Bella 0]

To me, your letter isn't clear. It's not clear as to when you saw each other last. The only date I see referenced is June 2005.

I would rewrite the letter giving more specific dates

Good point. I agree. You want the letter to clearly state all the times that you were together and where. If it is easier, provide the details in outline form. Confused people say no, so you want to try real hard not to confuse the adjudicator.

[Amarach 0]

To me, your letter isn't clear. It's not clear as to when you saw each other last. The only date I see referenced is June 2005.

I would rewrite the letter giving more specific dates

Good point. I agree. You want the letter to clearly state all the times that you were together and where. If it is easier, provide the details in outline form. Confused people say no, so you want to try real hard not to confuse the adjudicator.

Thankyou all so much for taking the time to advise me. *FYI= I'm the her and he's the he *

When I got home from work (I posted at work *blush*) I tore through some files and found a few boarding passes for me and my daughter visiting him and some baggage claims.

I also found a Cingular bill showing him calling me and me calling him while he visited (I put him on my contract for the free calls). So I am now including the above and will rewrite the letter.

We had a lease together, but he came in on a Tourist visa and I am honestly afraid he could get in trouble for that? He came to visit and ended up doing the lease with me when we decided to see if we could put up with eachother

Now it has been 7 months apart and I am so scared of doing this wrong. They also have my daughter's birth certificate and photos show him with her and its obvious she's 4 (She turns 5 in October). If I point this out could it help some in addition to the boarding passes and Cingular bill and amex bill?

In regards to the Circumstances of Meeting... How specific should I get? Don't they just want how you met? As for when I last saw him, that was January 9th, 2006.

Adriane

[Sinergy 3]

To me, your letter isn't clear. It's not clear as to when you saw each other last. The only date I see referenced is June 2005.

I would rewrite the letter giving more specific dates

Good point. I agree. You want the letter to clearly state all the times that you were together and where. If it is easier, provide the details in outline form. Confused people say no, so you want to try real hard not to confuse the adjudicator.

Thankyou all so much for taking the time to advise me. *FYI= I'm the her and he's the he *

When I got home from work (I posted at work *blush*) I tore through some files and found a few boarding passes for me and my daughter visiting him and some baggage claims.

I also found a Cingular bill showing him calling me and me calling him while he visited (I put him on my contract for the free calls). So I am now including the above and will rewrite the letter.

We had a lease together, but he came in on a Tourist visa and I am honestly afraid he could get in trouble for that? He came to visit and ended up doing the lease with me when we decided to see if we could put up with eachother

Now it has been 7 months apart and I am so scared of doing this wrong. They also have my daughter's birth certificate and photos show him with her and its obvious she's 4 (She turns 5 in October). If I point this out could it help some in addition to the boarding passes and Cingular bill and amex bill?

In regards to the Circumstances of Meeting... How specific should I get? Don't they just want how you met? As for when I last saw him, that was January 9th, 2006.

Adriane

The lease would be your strongest proof of meeting, however, since he was on a tourist visa i dunno what to say. maybe someone can advice on that. i wouldnt want to say yes send it, and then it cause probs

[rebeccajo 14]

Well, I remember a poster two years ago who sent proof but no explanation as to the meeting. She was RFE'd. So at first I thought this was what had happened to you.

She upped the ante on her evidence and sent a nice little letter giving specific dates (plus she added when they met online and stated she loved the dude) - approval followed.

Was your explanation on a separate piece of paper? If so, did you state on the petition itself something like 'see attachment'? Is it possible the petition package was not secured together properly and your attachment literally fell out of the file?

I don't follow what your daughter's birthdate has to do with this.

Let me advise you this - connect the dots for them. They don't have time to dig through files trying to figure out someone's birthdate compared to a visit.

Gather all the evidence you can and mount it securely to plain paper. Beside each piece of evidence, describe what it is and the date of the visit the evidence relates to. Make sure you clearly document you saw each other within the last two years. You aren't really trying to prove the bonafides or the longevity of the relationship - you don't have to do that at this stage of the process. You only need to prove you met in the last two years.

Some adjudicators like to know WHY you were motivated to meet, though. Briefly outline your relationship (be date specific) and add a modicum of mush.

I bet you'll turn out all right.

Edited September 20, 2007 by rebeccajo

[Amarach 0]

Thank you, Rebecca. I will do that.

Sincerely,

Adriane

PS: I brought up my daughter's age because people mentioned using Newspapers and new movies to show a sort of time line. Since it is to late for us to do that, the only time line I have in any photos is my daughter. When we first started dating she was 3, and the photos show her clearly getting older and older. Since they have her birth certificate that could in essence show that we've seen each other in the last year since she is at least 4 in her last photo with Tom and I. But as you have said that would probably be to much to hope for/ explain to our case worker in the packet.

Well, I remember a poster two years ago who sent proof but no explanation as to the meeting. She was RFE'd. So at first I thought this was what had happened to you.

She upped the ante on her evidence and sent a nice little letter giving specific dates (plus she added when they met online and stated she loved the dude) - approval followed.

Was your explanation on a separate piece of paper? If so, did you state on the petition itself something like 'see attachment'? Is it possible the petition package was not secured together properly and your attachment literally fell out of the file?

I don't follow what your daughter's birthdate has to do with this.

Let me advise you this - connect the dots for them. They don't have time to dig through files trying to figure out someone's birthdate compared to a visit.

Gather all the evidence you can and mount it securely to plain paper. Beside each piece of evidence, describe what it is and the date of the visit the evidence relates to. Make sure you clearly document you saw each other within the last two years. You aren't really trying to prove the bonafides or the longevity of the relationship - you don't have to do that at this stage of the process. You only need to prove you met in the last two years.

Some adjudicators like to know WHY you were motivated to meet, though. Briefly outline your relationship (be date specific) and add a modicum of mush.

I bet you'll turn out all right.

Edited September 20, 2007 by Amarach

[pushbrk 12,884]

Thank you, Rebecca. I will do that.

Sincerely,

Adriane

PS: I brought up my daughter's age because people mentioned using Newspapers and new movies to show a sort of time line. Since it is to late for us to do that, the only time line I have in any photos is my daughter. When we first started dating she was 3, and the photos show her clearly getting older and older. Since they have her birth certificate that could in essence show that we've seen each other in the last year since she is at least 4 in her last photo with Tom and I. But as you have said that would probably be to much to hope for/ explain to our case worker in the packet.

Well, I remember a poster two years ago who sent proof but no explanation as to the meeting. She was RFE'd. So at first I thought this was what had happened to you.

She upped the ante on her evidence and sent a nice little letter giving specific dates (plus she added when they met online and stated she loved the dude) - approval followed.

Was your explanation on a separate piece of paper? If so, did you state on the petition itself something like 'see attachment'? Is it possible the petition package was not secured together properly and your attachment literally fell out of the file?

I don't follow what your daughter's birthdate has to do with this.

Let me advise you this - connect the dots for them. They don't have time to dig through files trying to figure out someone's birthdate compared to a visit.

Gather all the evidence you can and mount it securely to plain paper. Beside each piece of evidence, describe what it is and the date of the visit the evidence relates to. Make sure you clearly document you saw each other within the last two years. You aren't really trying to prove the bonafides or the longevity of the relationship - you don't have to do that at this stage of the process. You only need to prove you met in the last two years.

Some adjudicators like to know WHY you were motivated to meet, though. Briefly outline your relationship (be date specific) and add a modicum of mush.

I bet you'll turn out all right.

Make sure the basics get covered very clearly. There is no substitute for actual clear primary evidence of meeting. Words don't substitute for evidence.

Absolutely connect the dots for them. Make it like girl's skirt. Short enough to make it interesting but long enough to cover the subject.