Student Tasered after questioning Kerry at forum

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Number 6, you have no idea what you're talking about.

They did those people a favor by tasering them, if they actually had to put their hands on them the perpetrator and officers could have been injured. That doesn't sound good for anyone to me.

Also you need to learn what the term serious physical injury means. Being tasered would barely even fall under the definition of physical injury, let alone serious physical injury.

I think I should read back to see whether I used the phrase "serious physical injury". I don't believe I did.

I just think that regardless of the guy being annoying and people feeling that he somehow "deserved" what happened to him, that the force used to subdue him was rather excessive and made more of the situation than was really merited.

[Drew and Tik 0]

What you don't realize is that if the student would have complied with the officer's rather polite requests to begin with, not only would he possibly avoided being arrested at all, but if he was arrested he definitely would not have been tasered. Police don't normally use force for no reason at all, I've never walked up to a guy on the street and pepper sprayed him because I think it's fun. He was physically resisting arrest, I want to know what the better option was.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

the question has been bolded for the eyesight impaired. it does have a question mark at the end of the sentence, denoting a question

as far as telling a dog to shut up, perhaps it's never dawned on you that unless the dog knows you, you're wasting your breath?

"if you think you're important, try bossing someone else's dog around."

Well now you're just being patronising; and as far as your question goes, a person reacting out of momentary fright and anger (not an unpredictable human reaction to being spooked by a loud noise) was not abusing that animal - and therefore did not justify arrest. Perhaps I'm missing something in the story there - but I didn't read that the guy was violent toward the dog, or stood there and taunted it maliciously. Ever had someone jump out on you and shout "boo"? More or less the same thing.

I'm just wondering why this went straight to arrest rather than say a warning.

[Fandango 1,440]

The cops forcibly moved him closer to the doors, then forcibly moved him to the floor. They very well could have continued to forcibly move him out of the room instead of 6 cops jumping on him and tasering him while smiling.

Clear abuse of the system regardless of the verdict! And I hope the kid sues the police, if that's poss!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The cops forcibly moved him closer to the doors, then forcibly moved him to the floor. They very well could have continued to forcibly move him out of the room instead of 6 cops jumping on him and tasering him while smiling.

Clear abuse of the system regardless of the verdict! And I hope the kid sues the police, if that's poss!

Indeed.

[Drew and Tik 0]

I know if my 6 year old girl was physically attacked by an 11 year old, I would snap his arm and every other large bone of his in half.

Which would net you a jail term for GBH.

As I said - is it really that implausible that an adult can't find other ways to restrain a child rather than resort to weapons or turning into a territorial mountain gorilla?

I think it would matter when someone caught this act taking place. For instance, if an individual saw an older male physically assaulting his young daughter, I seriously doubt very many (if any) juries would convict him for reacting in a harsh and violent manner.

However, if this same individual heard about the event at a later date from his daughter, tracked down the male who did it, and then delivered his own "brand of justice," I could definitely see legal problems occuring. The difference being between this example (and the one above) is that this one was premeditated -- where the father hunted down the man who assaulted his daughter -- whereas the former example was a "spur of the moment" thing.

I dunno – I think most people would have a problem with an adult causing serious injury to a child, regardless of what they might have done to provoke the anger of the adult. As I said I find it hard to believe that a person could not restrain an 11-year old without using weapons or causing serious bodily harm.

Its not unlike what happens to people who attack burglars – for the most part you have the right to defend your home and family from attack, but when the burglar has 23 knife wounds - all in his back, that’s a bit beyond what some people might consider a ‘reasonable’ use of force.

OK, so it seems you were mostly referring to serious injury correctly, if you were talking about breaking the kid's arms. But in the sentence "...that a person could not restrain an 11-year old without using weapons or causing serious bodily harm." it sounded more like you were talking about the police restraining the 11-year old, since you previously called the taser a weapon (which I agree, it is, though a very non-lethal one, less lethal than a golf club).

Also I don't think most people would have had a problem with the situation you mentioned regardless of the provocation. Let's just use the horrible example of an 11 year old boy raping, killing and incinerating the body of your 6 year old daughter...I don't think most adults would have any problem with the parents breaking his arms or worse in this scenario.

Edited October 25, 2007 by Drew and Tik

[Drew and Tik 0]

The cops forcibly moved him closer to the doors, then forcibly moved him to the floor. They very well could have continued to forcibly move him out of the room instead of 6 cops jumping on him and tasering him while smiling.

Clear abuse of the system regardless of the verdict! And I hope the kid sues the police, if that's poss!

Please refer to my previous analogy to professional athletes. Hope you're in the situation someday and do it better

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I know if my 6 year old girl was physically attacked by an 11 year old, I would snap his arm and every other large bone of his in half.

Which would net you a jail term for GBH.

As I said - is it really that implausible that an adult can't find other ways to restrain a child rather than resort to weapons or turning into a territorial mountain gorilla?

I think it would matter when someone caught this act taking place. For instance, if an individual saw an older male physically assaulting his young daughter, I seriously doubt very many (if any) juries would convict him for reacting in a harsh and violent manner.

However, if this same individual heard about the event at a later date from his daughter, tracked down the male who did it, and then delivered his own "brand of justice," I could definitely see legal problems occuring. The difference being between this example (and the one above) is that this one was premeditated -- where the father hunted down the man who assaulted his daughter -- whereas the former example was a "spur of the moment" thing.

I dunno – I think most people would have a problem with an adult causing serious injury to a child, regardless of what they might have done to provoke the anger of the adult. As I said I find it hard to believe that a person could not restrain an 11-year old without using weapons or causing serious bodily harm.

Its not unlike what happens to people who attack burglars – for the most part you have the right to defend your home and family from attack, but when the burglar has 23 knife wounds - all in his back, that’s a bit beyond what some people might consider a ‘reasonable’ use of force.

OK, so it seems you were mostly referring to serious injury correctly, if you were talking about breaking the kid's arms. But in the sentence "...that a person could not restrain an 11-year old without using weapons or causing serious bodily harm." it sounded more like you were talking about the police restraining the 11-year old, since you previously called the taser a weapon (which I agree, it is, though a very non-lethal one, less lethal than a golf club).

Also I don't think most people would have have a problem with the situation you mentioned regardless of the provocation. Let's just use the horrible example of an 11 year old boy raping, killing and incinerating the body of your 6 year old daughter...I don't think most adults would have any problem with the parents breaking his arms or worse in this scenario.

Well this is an old thread - I can hardly be expected to remember every post since the year dot.

Still I'd rather we keep this on real, rather than hypothetical examples - certainly in the one you're suggesting clouding the issue with personal involvement and emotion really just muddies the waters.

I just find it very hard to believe that an adult man could not restrain a 11-year old without pulling a weapon (however you choose to define what a weapon is). It also doesn't take a genius to figure out that a person with smaller body mass being hit with an electrical charge will feel it more acutely than a 250lb maniac.

[Drew and Tik 0]

Also cops aren't oblivious. They knew how many people were there and that in all likelihood, they were probably being videotaped. If they didn't believe, in their professional opinion, that tasering was necessary, or thought that it was excessive force, they would not have done it. They're just doing they're job, the kid is (and not just saying this to be a heartless jerk) really just being a crybaby. Being tasered does not hurt that bad, it's a lot nicer than what could have happened.

[Drew and Tik 0]

You don't believe that an 11 year old resisting arrest could ever injure (possibly even seriously injure) a healthy adult in an arrest situation?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You don't believe that an 11 year old resisting arrest could ever injure (possibly even seriously injure) a healthy adult in an arrest situation?

I didn't say that - I said that I find it hard to believe that a police officer could not overpower an 11 year old without resort to weapons.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Also cops aren't oblivious. They knew how many people were there and that in all likelihood, they were probably being videotaped. If they didn't believe, in their professional opinion, that tasering was necessary, or thought that it was excessive force, they would not have done it. They're just doing they're job, the kid is (and not just saying this to be a heartless jerk) really just being a crybaby. Being tasered does not hurt that bad, it's a lot nicer than what could have happened.

Unfortunately for them - their "professional opinion" was recorded and broadcast over network news and the internet. As I say, I personally find it rather an excessive and over the top reaction - especially considering that the guy was basically already restrained.

[Drew and Tik 0]

Nobody is already restrained until they're handcuffed, and even then, if they're still causing or attempting to cause injury or property damage then they might need further restraints. Anyway, I'm done for now, I have to work tonight, sleep time

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Nobody is already restrained until they're handcuffed, and even then, if they're still causing or attempting to cause injury or property damage then they might need further restraints. Anyway, I'm done for now, I have to work tonight, sleep time

Indeed - but this really goes toward what I was saying earlier: that what constitutes "resisting" is rather a loose and liberal definition. Was this guy trying to cause injury and/or property damage? Regardless - were his efforts matched by his capacity? I'm not so sure...

[Fandango 1,440]

The cops forcibly moved him closer to the doors, then forcibly moved him to the floor. They very well could have continued to forcibly move him out of the room instead of 6 cops jumping on him and tasering him while smiling.

Clear abuse of the system regardless of the verdict! And I hope the kid sues the police, if that's poss!

Please refer to my previous analogy to professional athletes. Hope you're in the situation someday and do it better

If 6 cops cannot physically restrain 1 21 year old average sized kid without the aid of a taser, we have some pathetic cops and they should all be fired.

The rest of it is just bollocks.