A military route to citizenship

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

As for worrying about the job, I doubt very much that an "illegal" immigrant is going to ever take my job, and I dare say the vast majority of those on VJ aren't too worried about those darn "illegals" taking their jobs or reducing their pay.

i'm more worried about the tax burden they cause taxpayers (i.e. me!)

A tax burden which is a fraction of other tax burdens like the Iraq war.

But then overall if illegal aliens don't pay taxes, the companies that hire them will. So in the end, the tax burden is neutral.

think so? keep trying - a company can find creative ways to write off profits. what you suggest above with the illegals not paying taxes but the company does is quite lame.

Growth will get taxed in some way or some form. If its not the company that hires the illegal immigrants, its the companys that supply them.

But then, how much does someone making $10k to $15k a year actually pay in taxes? Especially if they have a family. Its not very much.

even more than that can be fixed with creativity....claim lots of deductions......

[Dan J 277]

The Development Relief and Education for Alien Minors Act would allow undocumented high-school graduates to gain citizenship if they either attend college for two years or serve two years in the military.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0917dreamwar0917.html

Let me get this straight. Rather than assisting the 45,000,000+ Americans living in poverty, elected senators are actually proposing illegal immigrants get a handout and get-out-of-jail-free pass..

And the left made it out that GWB was the idiot and that General Petraeus was the traitor. Seriously what sort of morons vote for these guys??

Isn't that sad, and those who advocate this must be blind to the status of middle class America which is being forced into poverty.

These Illegals have no right to remain in this country and be given free assistance and govt. support when there are so many Americans that are living below poverty that could use the assiatnce and resources these ILLEGAL CRIMINALS are taking.

Middle class America is going into poverty by poor financial choices, like taking on more debt than they can handle.

Illegal immigrants or not, as long as we have capitalism we will always have poor people. Many of them will be working too, but wont make enough to not be poor.

[Addie_Goodvibes 0]

Growth will get taxed in some way or some form. If its not the company that hires the illegal immigrants, its the companys that supply them.

But then, how much does someone making $10k to $15k a year actually pay in taxes? Especially if they have a family. Its not very much.

How much do they Take from the Govt.? From other poor tax payers, from the Legal Citizen or legal resident that is without insurance.

try 10+ billions per year another reason immigration laws need to be enforced and carried out.

[Dan J 277]

Growth will get taxed in some way or some form. If its not the company that hires the illegal immigrants, its the companys that supply them.

But then, how much does someone making $10k to $15k a year actually pay in taxes? Especially if they have a family. Its not very much.

How much do they Take from the Govt.? From other poor tax payers, from the Legal Citizen or legal resident that is without insurance.

try 10+ billions per year another reason immigration laws need to be enforced and carried out.

Yeah so do all poor people. Want to get rid of them too? Too bad, that plan would only result in others becoming poor.

But on the other hand, having poor people gives other people more of a chance to succeed economically. Which of course generates more tax money.

There really isn't a net drain, When you take the whole economy into account, its growing because of illegal immigrants. When the economy grows so do tax revenues. And that will offset any cost incurred by illegal immigrants.

[Heracles 417]

Middle class America is going into poverty by poor financial choices, like taking on more debt than they can handle.

Illegal immigrants or not, as long as we have capitalism we will always have poor people. Many of them will be working too, but wont make enough to not be poor.

So how does importing more and more poor people change that. Why would a blue collar employer increase their pay rate when they know there will always be some illegal immigrant coming over the border to do the job, at an under the table rock bottom price..

[Heracles 417]

There really isn't a net drain, When you take the whole economy into account, its growing because of illegal immigrants. When the economy grows so do tax revenues. And that will offset any cost incurred by illegal immigrants.

Yes in an economy with a controlled immigration policy, like Canada and Australia, where they pick and choose the skill sets required by the economy.

The only other countries I can think of with "come in as you see fit" border policies are 3rd countries. And we can see how well that is working for them..

[Dan J 277]

Middle class America is going into poverty by poor financial choices, like taking on more debt than they can handle.

Illegal immigrants or not, as long as we have capitalism we will always have poor people. Many of them will be working too, but wont make enough to not be poor.

So how does importing more and more poor people change that. Why would a blue collar employer increase their pay rate when they know there will always be some illegal immigrant coming over the border to do the job, at an under the table rock bottom price..

More people to buy goods and services, creates more jobs in other industries. Even those who are poor, still have to pay for housing, buy goods or other services.

Lets say your company sells widgets. Without illegal immigrants, you have saturated the market, and your company doesn't have new customers to sell its widgets too. Only really selling widgets to those who want new ones. Illegal immigrants come in, and buy widgets too. Now you have a new market, your company grows and needs to hire more people. But you need skilled people to fill your job openings. So due an increase illegal immigrants, your company has created new jobs for higher skilled people. Your and your company make more money, increasing your tax burden. As well as the employees you just hired are also paying taxes.

Get rid of illegal immigrants, and you have to lay off the people you just hired. Since well, your back to your old market.

[Dan J 277]

There really isn't a net drain, When you take the whole economy into account, its growing because of illegal immigrants. When the economy grows so do tax revenues. And that will offset any cost incurred by illegal immigrants.

Yes in an economy with a controlled immigration policy, like Canada and Australia, where they pick and choose the skill sets required by the economy.

The only other countries I can think of with "come in as you see fit" border policies are 3rd countries. And we can see how well that is working for them..

Yes because immigration has made them a developing country. Most of those countries actually have alot of people leaving the country.

But then poor countries and rich countries is just capitalism on a much larger scale. To have rich countries you will have poor countries.

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

More people to buy goods and services, creates more jobs in other industries. Even those who are poor, still have to pay for housing, buy goods or other services.

Lets say your company sells widgets. Without illegal immigrants, you have saturated the market, and your company doesn't have new customers to sell its widgets too. Only really selling widgets to those who want new ones. Illegal immigrants come in, and buy widgets too. Now you have a new market, your company grows and needs to hire more people. But you need skilled people to fill your job openings. So due an increase illegal immigrants, your company has created new jobs for higher skilled people. Your and your company make more money, increasing your tax burden. As well as the employees you just hired are also paying taxes.

Get rid of illegal immigrants, and you have to lay off the people you just hired. Since well, your back to your old market.

most are here to make money for sending home, not buying widgets. next?

[Dan J 277]

More people to buy goods and services, creates more jobs in other industries. Even those who are poor, still have to pay for housing, buy goods or other services.

Lets say your company sells widgets. Without illegal immigrants, you have saturated the market, and your company doesn't have new customers to sell its widgets too. Only really selling widgets to those who want new ones. Illegal immigrants come in, and buy widgets too. Now you have a new market, your company grows and needs to hire more people. But you need skilled people to fill your job openings. So due an increase illegal immigrants, your company has created new jobs for higher skilled people. Your and your company make more money, increasing your tax burden. As well as the employees you just hired are also paying taxes.

Get rid of illegal immigrants, and you have to lay off the people you just hired. Since well, your back to your old market.

most are here to make money for sending home, not buying widgets. next?

So while they are here, I guess they don't eat, stay anywhere or buy anything. Since after all they are sending all that money home right? Next?

[Heracles 417]

Middle class America is going into poverty by poor financial choices, like taking on more debt than they can handle.

Illegal immigrants or not, as long as we have capitalism we will always have poor people. Many of them will be working too, but wont make enough to not be poor.

So how does importing more and more poor people change that. Why would a blue collar employer increase their pay rate when they know there will always be some illegal immigrant coming over the border to do the job, at an under the table rock bottom price..

More people to buy goods and services, creates more jobs in other industries. Even those who are poor, still have to pay for housing, buy goods or other services.

Lets say your company sells widgets. Without illegal immigrants, you have saturated the market, and your company doesn't have new customers to sell its widgets too. Only really selling widgets to those who want new ones. Illegal immigrants come in, and buy widgets too. Now you have a new market, your company grows and needs to hire more people. But you need skilled people to fill your job openings. So due an increase illegal immigrants, your company has created new jobs for higher skilled people. Your and your company make more money, increasing your tax burden. As well as the employees you just hired are also paying taxes.

Get rid of illegal immigrants, and you have to lay off the people you just hired. Since well, your back to your old market.

You are not wrong with what you are saying but what happens to the poor unskilled American worker?

How about this example..

Total cost of hiring American worker: lets say minimum $10 per hour after insurance etc

Total cost of hiring illegal immigrant: A few bucks an hour

Who do you think a dodgy employer will hire? Therefore who loses in the above picture? The American worker.

Edited September 18, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[Heracles 417]

There really isn't a net drain, When you take the whole economy into account, its growing because of illegal immigrants. When the economy grows so do tax revenues. And that will offset any cost incurred by illegal immigrants.

Yes in an economy with a controlled immigration policy, like Canada and Australia, where they pick and choose the skill sets required by the economy.

The only other countries I can think of with "come in as you see fit" border policies are 3rd countries. And we can see how well that is working for them..

Yes because immigration has made them a developing country. Most of those countries actually have alot of people leaving the country.

But then poor countries and rich countries is just capitalism on a much larger scale. To have rich countries you will have poor countries.

The only people benefiting from illegal immigrants are businesses. Thus the rich. Cheap labor provides no gain for a poor American who has no income..

[Dan J 277]

Middle class America is going into poverty by poor financial choices, like taking on more debt than they can handle.

Illegal immigrants or not, as long as we have capitalism we will always have poor people. Many of them will be working too, but wont make enough to not be poor.

So how does importing more and more poor people change that. Why would a blue collar employer increase their pay rate when they know there will always be some illegal immigrant coming over the border to do the job, at an under the table rock bottom price..

More people to buy goods and services, creates more jobs in other industries. Even those who are poor, still have to pay for housing, buy goods or other services.

Lets say your company sells widgets. Without illegal immigrants, you have saturated the market, and your company doesn't have new customers to sell its widgets too. Only really selling widgets to those who want new ones. Illegal immigrants come in, and buy widgets too. Now you have a new market, your company grows and needs to hire more people. But you need skilled people to fill your job openings. So due an increase illegal immigrants, your company has created new jobs for higher skilled people. Your and your company make more money, increasing your tax burden. As well as the employees you just hired are also paying taxes.

Get rid of illegal immigrants, and you have to lay off the people you just hired. Since well, your back to your old market.

You are not wrong with what you are saying but what happens to the poor unskilled American worker?

How about this example..

Total cost of hiring American worker: lets say minimum $10 per hour after insurance etc

Total cost of hiring illegal immigrant: A few bucks an hour

Who do you think a dodgy employer will hire? Therefore who loses in the above picture? The American worker.

So? After all capitalism is about competition right? Should workers be immune from job competition? Really, most people are already competing for their job with workers around the world. Especially with outsourcing. You can complain about it, or learn to take advantage of the system to best suit you.

But then its not hard for a citizen to distinguish themselves over someone who is an illegal immigrant. Knowing English alone can give you the advantage in many jobs. But our economy is not one where you can just expect a job to be handed to you. Especially if your going to be lazy.

Your making an assumption, illegal immigrants will always be paid much less. In many cases, they get paid the same. But then even without illegal immigrants, many people will still be working and still be in poverty. A full time job, does not guarantee you a livable wage. The livable wage in Minneapolis is something like $13 per hour, Minimum wage is much less than that.

There really isn't a net drain, When you take the whole economy into account, its growing because of illegal immigrants. When the economy grows so do tax revenues. And that will offset any cost incurred by illegal immigrants.

Yes in an economy with a controlled immigration policy, like Canada and Australia, where they pick and choose the skill sets required by the economy.

The only other countries I can think of with "come in as you see fit" border policies are 3rd countries. And we can see how well that is working for them..

Yes because immigration has made them a developing country. Most of those countries actually have alot of people leaving the country.

But then poor countries and rich countries is just capitalism on a much larger scale. To have rich countries you will have poor countries.

The only people benefiting from illegal immigrants are businesses. Thus the rich. Cheap labor provides no gain for a poor American who has no income..

Wrong. While thats true for direct benefit, indirectly, many more people benefit. Refer to my widgets company example. The owner was not the only one benefiting.

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

More people to buy goods and services, creates more jobs in other industries. Even those who are poor, still have to pay for housing, buy goods or other services.

Lets say your company sells widgets. Without illegal immigrants, you have saturated the market, and your company doesn't have new customers to sell its widgets too. Only really selling widgets to those who want new ones. Illegal immigrants come in, and buy widgets too. Now you have a new market, your company grows and needs to hire more people. But you need skilled people to fill your job openings. So due an increase illegal immigrants, your company has created new jobs for higher skilled people. Your and your company make more money, increasing your tax burden. As well as the employees you just hired are also paying taxes.

Get rid of illegal immigrants, and you have to lay off the people you just hired. Since well, your back to your old market.

most are here to make money for sending home, not buying widgets. next?

So while they are here, I guess they don't eat, stay anywhere or buy anything. Since after all they are sending all that money home right? Next?

oh they eat. they stay somewhere. they do buy something.

but that food they buy isn't high cost, the rent they pay is not either as it's not unusual for quite a few to rent a place to decrease the cost per person, and why buy something when there is a real risk of being caught and deported?

keep putting lipstick on that pig