Islam: a Plan for World Domination?

[BabyBlueSusie 1]

i fail to see where the US is trying to get middle eastern countries to submit to our way of life.

well basically, they have a way of life that is very different than ours...many people view the US backing of israel (yes it does come back to this is many ways) as a way to provide themselves with economic influence in the middle east (a region that they have previously had little to no influence in)...it can also be said that these wars (as there have been several) that the US insists on waging in the middle east are a way for them to destroy the infrastructure of these countries and then impose upon them a new type of economy and government to 'rebuild' the country (namely 'democracy' and capitalism)...by instituing such political systems, they place figurehead leaders in power who will support their capitalist agenda and allow them to pass legislation in support of it as well...the economic part is easy, once they have control of the government...i mean its easy to see that the recently rich oil countries are much more americanized than the other middle eastern countries...you can also notice that we dont wage wars with countries upon which we have some economic dependency (cough, oil, cough)...if you do the research, you will find that the majority of the hijackers involved with the attacks on 9/11 were from saudi arabia...are we at war with saudi arabia? as far as i know, nope...theres a reason for everything

oh shoot, now theyre gonna black bag me

[smoke20 0]

It's not hard to see the "we know what's best for you" attitude underlying the policies. Similarly its not hard to see how people would be irritated by that...

thats why its the US foreign policy "its whats best for us" not "whats best for you"

Sure. But if you look at it like that you can't really be surprised that there is resentment. In fact, you would have to expect it.

What do you think Iraq is if not fallout from the 25-30 year old foreign policy decisions? Even before that you need only look at Iran - whose govt was deposed in the 50's (with US aid) to install a more 'malleable' government in the monarchy. Doesn't take much hindsight to see how that turned out... Then in the 80's you have things like the Iran-Contra affair - whose interests did that protect?

first of all i don't care if the world resents the US for its foreign polices. they are meant to protect American intrest noone elses.

do you really think your life will be better if the world has warm fuzzy feeling about the US gov't? as far as iran/contra sometimes you have to get in bed w/ the enemy.(we're doing it now w/ the afgan drug lords & sunni resistence in iraq) we need to have avenues to pursue later, weather we like it or understand it, it part of life.

[BabyBlueSusie 1]

do you really think your life will be better if the world has warm fuzzy feeling about the US gov't?

yes i do, because then attacks like those which happened on 9/11 wouldnt have ever happened

[Stabu 0]

try checking out where the US ranks as far as standard of living is concerned, you might be surprised

While I agree with you on basically everything else, regarding this little bit I strongly disagree. The most common and the most objective used measurement for livingstandard is the PPP adjusted GDP per capita level. In this list US is fourth ($43,444) after Luxembourg 80,471, Ireland 44,087 and Norway 43,574. Even on that list both Luxembourg and Norway could be excluded since Luxembourg is wealthy only because it has a tiny population and banking activities. Norway is on top because of oil the real living standard in there isn't that high in my opinnion (I've visited Norway several times before). Ireland beats the US regardless. Countries such as the UK, Finland, Sweden or Germany are 1/3 poorer than the US for example.

But yes, I strongly agree that the US is mainly hated because of its foreing policy. That's about the only thing in the US that I really really dislike (I dislike several other minor things, but that's the only major thing I disslike). Not only does the US wage war against everybody, it also wages a war against things such as narcotics and it continues to occupy countries such as Germany, South Korea, Denmark or Italy even if it's been many decades since any of these countries has needed the help from the US or been a threath to the US. The US foreing policy could be summarized easily by saying: eternal war always.

But still, I would like to point out that the intellectuals in Europe and else where may hate the US also becaus of it's freedoms. But the intellectuals are always miserable anywhere anyway except in totalitarian countries like North Korea or Cuba.

[mawilson 2,133]

Sure. But if you look at it like that you can't really be surprised that there is resentment. In fact, you would have to expect it.

I for one am not surprised - I know how aggressive American foreign policy is, and I still fully support it.

Being "nice" doesn't get you very far.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

first of all i don't care if the world resents the US for its foreign polices. they are meant to protect American intrest noone elses.

do you really think your life will be better if the world has warm fuzzy feeling about the US gov't? as far as iran/contra sometimes you have to get in bed w/ the enemy.(we're doing it now w/ the afgan drug lords & sunni resistence in iraq) we need to have avenues to pursue later, weather we like it or understand it, it part of life.

Well that's essentially what its about. As far as that goes however, it is a rather short-sighted and arrogant view; and indeed rather ironic given that you already said you're tired of people 'bashing the US' as though this happens for no reason whatsoever. What's that - "I don't care what other people think so long as I don't have to hear about it?"

[smoke20 0]

do you really think your life will be better if the world has warm fuzzy feeling about the US gov't?

yes i do, because then attacks like those which happened on 9/11 wouldnt have ever happened

OH BS! 911 was a terrorist attack carried out by extremist nutbags. why "because the west will not submit to islamic law". i believe that is osama & the boys justification for murder & terror.

[smoke20 0]

first of all i don't care if the world resents the US for its foreign polices. they are meant to protect American intrest noone elses.

do you really think your life will be better if the world has warm fuzzy feeling about the US gov't? as far as iran/contra sometimes you have to get in bed w/ the enemy.(we're doing it now w/ the afgan drug lords & sunni resistence in iraq) we need to have avenues to pursue later, weather we like it or understand it, it part of life.

Well that's essentially what its about. As far as that goes however, it is a rather short-sighted and arrogant view; and indeed rather ironic given that you already said you're tired of people 'bashing the US' as though this happens for no reason whatsoever. What's that - "I don't care what other people think so long as I don't have to hear about it?"

how bout im tired of hearing people benefiting from the US foreign policy bashing the US gov't for protecting their interest. & i'm tired of Americans saying we are wrong for protecting ourselves.

[BabyBlueSusie 1]

While I agree with you on basically everything else, regarding this little bit I strongly disagree. The most common and the most objective used measurement for livingstandard is the PPP adjusted GDP per capita level.

i definitely agree that the money issue is an important one to consider, but i dont think that is it the only relevant factor when considering quality of life...if there is a huge disparity between rich and poor, or a very tiny (1%) of the population control the vast majority of the capital within a nation, then the average is not really characteristic of the average joe is it?

'The Human Development Index (HDI) is a comparative measure of life expectancy, literacy, education, and standards of living for countries worldwide. It is a standard means of measuring well-being, especially child welfare'

'Rank Country HDI

1 Norway 0.965 (0)

2 Iceland 0.960 (0)

3 Australia 0.957 (0)

4 Ireland 0.956 (+4)

5 Sweden 0.951 (+1)

6 Canada 0.950 (-1)

7 Japan 0.949 (+4)

8 United States 0.948 (+2)

9 Switzerland 0.947 (-2)

10 Netherlands 0.947 (+2)'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...velopment_Index

[mRx 16]

you dont see the US killing innocent kids and civilians because the media is too biased to show those sorts of things...you think that no innocent people are being harmed in iraq and afghanistan? how many times do you see footage of these wars on the evening news? and i mean, real footage, not just of some reporter standing somewhere within the borders of iraq...one of the reasons that vietnam became such an issue was because of the news broadcastings of the violence that was going on at the time...the difference between this war and that one is that now the media knows it cannot show these sorts of things...

you have your opinion, and i have mine...that doesnt mean i dont have the same right to live here as you, my friend.

Well, don't you just know everything?

Put yourself in a position where you have to make an extremely hard decision. A decision where regardless of your choice, the outcome will cause death. For example, you are engaged by enemies who have backed themselves up to a school. What do you do?

Of course civilian casualties occur, its a sad reality of war. Any chance the enemy can, they will force you into a position to injure civilians. Then they twist the events out of context in an attempt to gain support.

If the media was sooo biased in our favor, why did they broadcast the Haditha killings, what about the five soldiers charged in the rape and murder of that 14 year old girl, Abu Ghraib, I can keep going. So don't worry, the media is not with-holding any of the horrible things from you.

[BabyBlueSusie 1]

OH BS! 911 was a terrorist attack carried out by extremist nutbags. why "because the west will not submit to islamic law". i believe that is osama & the boys justification for murder & terror.

the bottom line is that people arent just crazy...they dont just blow up buildings for no reason...yea theyre a little nuts for killing themselves, but our soldiers also commit to 'dying for freedom' and other such ideals when they go to war, dont they? it might be difficult to understand, but these people actually have reasons for their feelings toward this country...they didnt just wake up one morning and decide that they hate america

[BabyBlueSusie 1]

Well, don't you just know everything?

Put yourself in a position where you have to make an extremely hard decision. A decision where regardless of your choice, the outcome will cause death. For example, you are engaged by enemies who have backed themselves up to a school. What do you do?

Of course civilian casualties occur, its a sad reality of war. Any chance the enemy can, they will force you into a position to injure civilians. Then they twist the events out of context in an attempt to gain support.

If the media was sooo biased in our favor, why did they broadcast the Haditha killings, what about the five soldiers charged in the rape and murder of that 14 year old girl, Abu Ghraib, I can keep going. So don't worry, the media is not with-holding any of the horrible things from you.

i dont have to put myself in such a position, and nobody would if we had better diplomacy...if we made an attempt to understand and speak with the people on the other side of the fence, rather than blowing up their cities in an effort to tell them what is best FOR THEM, then we wouldnt have to be at war right now, or ever

who are the 'enemies' that have backed themselves into a school? because im pretty sure that if people with tanks came into my country and started blowing things up, that they would kinda, sorta resemble terrorists

[Stabu 0]

i definitely agree that the money issue is an important one to consider, but i dont think that is it the only relevant factor when considering quality of life...if there is a huge disparity between rich and poor, or a very tiny (1%) of the population control the vast majority of the capital within a nation, then the average is not really characteristic of the average joe is it?

'The Human Development Index (HDI) is a comparative measure of life expectancy, literacy, education, and standards of living for countries worldwide. It is a standard means of measuring well-being, especially child welfare'

As I've pointed elesewhere the HDI is a meaningless index. It was developed to measure 3rd world countries. 40% of the HDI consists of child mortality rates, 40% consists of life expectancy, 20% consists of PPP adjusted GDP per capita.

Back in 1999 the 20% of the population owned 81.7% of the reseources in the US, while they owned 91.0% of the reseources in Sweden. The poorest 20% where -7.0% in debt in Sweden of the GDP while they where -0.3% indebted in the US (statistics comes from NIPA, FRFF and SCB).

The point: most issues regarding the poor and the US is a myth.

[BabyBlueSusie 1]

The point: most issues regarding the poor and the US is a myth.

i strongly disagree

[mawilson 2,133]

The point: most issues regarding the poor and the US is a myth.

i strongly disagree

That's because you don't know what you're talking about.

Stabu is dead on about Europe.