Islam: a Plan for World Domination?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It would be rather interesting to see a couple special forces teams go into Iran and use these very same tactics on them. Every time a IED is set off in Iraq, one follows on the streets of Tehran. I wonder if they would get the hint.

Yeah.... Ahmadinejad would get up on a podium, point to the smoking crater and twisted bodies and say that everything he's been telling his people is right. And with the evidence of their eyes why would they have reason to disbelieve him?

Awwww but the opposite could also occur, the common folk just might blame him.

Well when the twin towers were still smoking the US didn't turn around en-masse and lay the blame for 9/11 at the feet of GWB. People tend to notice cause and effect rather more if they've seen it with their own eyes...

But when you're looking into a smoking crater full of charred corpses that includes friends and relatives - I'd contend that you're rather likely to blame the people who exploded the bomb than your own government (even if you don't agree with them).

[Heracles 417]

That's twice you brought it up - once as a general statement, and again in specific reference for what the Russians should have done to Chechnya. I think the US is fine the way it is (for all its flaws) and doesn't need to emulate the countries and regimes that it despises...

As I said before maybe you guys can get together and use diplomacy to negotiate with the terrorists. By all means go right ahead and prove everyone else wrong.

[Heracles 417]

It would be rather interesting to see a couple special forces teams go into Iran and use these very same tactics on them. Every time a IED is set off in Iraq, one follows on the streets of Tehran. I wonder if they would get the hint.

Yeah.... Ahmadinejad would get up on a podium, point to the smoking crater and twisted bodies and say that everything he's been telling his people is right. And with the evidence of their eyes why would they have reason to disbelieve him?

Likewise doing nothing is also a failed strategy and will not change the hatred.

[Hematoma 0]

But when you're looking into a smoking crater full of charred corpses that includes friends and relatives - I'd contend that you're rather likely to blame the people who exploded the bomb than your own government (even if you don't agree with them).

Then how would you explain the left wingers in american politics wanting a mass exodous from Iraq?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

How can the local population cooperate when they are threatened daily. Or when they watch and read how the left is constantly talking about a withdrawal and basically abandoning them there. Gezz what a great motivation. More of that positive stuff so many on the left talk about..

PS The people who do not give a ###### about civilians are the insurgents and terrorists, not the western forces..

Given that there are still areas of that country where the population is lucky to have basic amenities (like electricity) - I'm wondering exactly what large-scale access to our mass-media those people have... More to the point how do you know so much about their reading and viewing habits?

Blaming negative public opinion on the US media seems spurious at best.

Re: The bolded part. Who actually said that the western forces 'dont give a ######' about the civilians?

That's twice you brought it up - once as a general statement, and again in specific reference for what the Russians should have done to Chechnya. I think the US is fine the way it is (for all its flaws) and doesn't need to emulate the countries and regimes that it despises...

As I said before maybe you guys can get together and use diplomacy to negotiate with the terrorists. By all means go right ahead and prove everyone else wrong.

Why is it only "Total Destruction" Vs. Rolling over like a pansy with you.

You really don't understand the concept of "middle ground" do you.?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

But when you're looking into a smoking crater full of charred corpses that includes friends and relatives - I'd contend that you're rather likely to blame the people who exploded the bomb than your own government (even if you don't agree with them).

Then how would you explain the left wingers in american politics wanting a mass exodous from Iraq?

Hmmm... exactly what does that have to do with the point you made?

Iraq took place several years after 9/11 - opinions tend to change over time, as do emotional states. When the towers were smoking and everyone was angry, the vast majority of people in this and other countries were demanding Bin Laden's head not GWB's.

You think the same rationale wouldn't apply if the US did the same thing in Iran? Somehow I'm sceptical.

[Heracles 417]

Why is it only "Total Destruction" Vs. Rolling over like a pansy with you.

You really don't understand the concept of "middle ground" do you.?

I think you fail to accept that there are people out there who do not want to negotiate with you. How do you personally recommend we deal with people like that?

[Heracles 417]

But when you're looking into a smoking crater full of charred corpses that includes friends and relatives - I'd contend that you're rather likely to blame the people who exploded the bomb than your own government (even if you don't agree with them).

Then how would you explain the left wingers in american politics wanting a mass exodous from Iraq?

Hmmm... exactly what does that have to do with the point you made?

Iraq took place several years after 9/11 - opinions tend to change over time, as do emotional states. When the towers were smoking and everyone was angry, the vast majority of people in this and other countries were demanding Bin Laden's head not GWB's.

You think the same rationale wouldn't apply if the US did the same thing in Iran? Somehow I'm sceptical.

What would people say if GWB constantly and publicly threatened a country and they attacked?

Would they blame the country attacking or the current administration??? Especially the left in America who is first to condemn the US government. LMAO I think we both know the answer..

Edited September 13, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Why is it only "Total Destruction" Vs. Rolling over like a pansy with you.

You really don't understand the concept of "middle ground" do you.?

I think you fail to accept that there are people out there who do not want to negotiate with you. How do you personally recommend we deal with people like that?

That wasn't the point that was made, thanks for confounding it yet again.

Again - to point out to you (once again) noone is advocating pacifism. The original point that was made was about people's perceptions of war and the value judgements they ascribe to those perceptions.

BTW - what was so objectionable about the idea of a 'targetted' and 'proportional' response? I never figured out how why you apparently think that this is any less of a solution than a unilateral and indiscriminate one.. Like suggesting the Chechnya be wiped off the map.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

But when you're looking into a smoking crater full of charred corpses that includes friends and relatives - I'd contend that you're rather likely to blame the people who exploded the bomb than your own government (even if you don't agree with them).

Then how would you explain the left wingers in american politics wanting a mass exodous from Iraq?

Hmmm... exactly what does that have to do with the point you made?

Iraq took place several years after 9/11 - opinions tend to change over time, as do emotional states. When the towers were smoking and everyone was angry, the vast majority of people in this and other countries were demanding Bin Laden's head not GWB's.

You think the same rationale wouldn't apply if the US did the same thing in Iran? Somehow I'm sceptical.

What would people say if GWB constantly and publicly threatened a country and they attacked?

Would they blame the country attacking or the current administration??? Especially the left in America who is first to condemn the US government. LMAO I think we both know the answer..

It doesn't change the fact that there was a general resurgence of nationalism after 9/11, as indeed there was after Pearl Harbour.

[Heracles 417]

Why is it only "Total Destruction" Vs. Rolling over like a pansy with you.

You really don't understand the concept of "middle ground" do you.?

I think you fail to accept that there are people out there who do not want to negotiate with you. How do you personally recommend we deal with people like that?

That wasn't the point that was made, thanks for confounding it yet again.

Again - to point out to you (once again) noone is advocating pacifism. The original point that was made was about people's perceptions of war and the value judgements they ascribe to those perceptions.

BTW - what was so objectionable about the idea of a 'targetted' and 'proportional' response? I never figured out how why you apparently think that this is any less of a solution than a unilateral and indiscriminate one.. Like suggesting the Chechnya be wiped off the map.

So ####### are you guys advocating then? I have tried to ascertain this from day one..

We tried targeted and proportional and that has failed due to the insurgents and terrorists hiding amongst civilians. Now what? The insurgents know the rules we follow. They just work around them and use those exact principals against us.

Edited September 13, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

So ####### are you guys advocating then? I have tried to ascertain this from day one..

You need to go back and re-read the thread, preferably get someone to help you.

We tried targeted and proportional

Where? When?

[Heracles 417]

So ####### are you guys advocating then? I have tried to ascertain this from day one..

You need to go back and re-read the thread, preferably get someone to help you.

We tried targeted and proportional

Where? When?

You guys have not suggested jack ######. Hence why I am constantly asking for you to do so..

What the ###### are the troops doing there now? When was the last time they randomly carpet bombed an area?

PS You need to step away from the liberal blogs which are congesting your head with BS..

Edited September 13, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

So ####### are you guys advocating then? I have tried to ascertain this from day one..

You need to go back and re-read the thread, preferably get someone to help you.

We tried targeted and proportional

Where? When?

You guys have not suggested jack ######. Hence why I am constantly asking for you to do so..

What the ###### are the troops doing there now? When was the last time they randomly carpet bombed an area?

And you have suggested mayhem and genocide as a 'solution'. As far as that goes it is a solution. The Final one. Thanks for that!

This was never about "what the US is doing wrong" in Iraq - you're the one who has taken it down that route. For anyone else who wants a context to this rather muddled thread (though at this moment - quite why anyone would is beyond me) - start at post 269.

PS You need to step away from the liberal blogs which are congesting your head with BS..

I don't read (any) blogs.

[Dan J 277]

So ####### are you guys advocating then? I have tried to ascertain this from day one..

You need to go back and re-read the thread, preferably get someone to help you.

We tried targeted and proportional

Where? When?

You guys have not suggested jack ######. Hence why I am constantly asking for you to do so..

What the ###### are the troops doing there now? When was the last time they randomly carpet bombed an area?

PS You need to step away from the liberal blogs which are congesting your head with BS..

Some people learn to think for themselves, instead of just following what is cool and popular. Although the war is only popular with a small group of people.

Edited September 13, 2007 by Dan + Gemvita