Islam: a Plan for World Domination?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Sorry but the so-called international community is not going to protect us. Maybe you and Caladan should have a read up on the Beslan case and see what they did to those kids, especially while being held hostage. Some of which is way too graphic to discuss here.

The point is that if you go around in total disregard of the view of our neighbours and partners - it will have unforseen consequences. World doesn't exactly thrive on wholesale instability.

And as for Beslan - terrible incident to be sure, but what makes you think that people prepared to die would be anything but strengthened by what you suggested?

A "Federalist" who also wants a national ID card...

i like bending the rules

And definitions.

When someone, or a group, starts attacking kids, all bets are off.

Not when the 'solution' being offered is intrinsically insane.

[Caladan 19]

I've read up about Beslan. What's that got to do with whatever it is you're advocating?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I've read up about Beslan. What's that got to do with whatever it is you're advocating?

He's advocating blowing up many schools to prevent the destruction of one.... :blink:

[Heracles 417]

Sorry but the so-called international community is not going to protect us. Maybe you and Caladan should have a read up on the Beslan case and see what they did to those kids, especially while being held hostage. Some of which is way too graphic to discuss here.

The point is that if you go around in total disregard of the view of our neighbours and partners - it will have unforseen consequences. World doesn't exactly thrive on wholesale instability.

And as for Beslan - terrible incident to be sure, but what makes you think that people prepared to die would be anything but strengthened by what you suggested?

A "Federalist" who also wants a national ID card...

i like bending the rules

And definitions.

Consequences for one's actions is something many extremist Muslims fail to understand. Not to my surprise you do as well. There are a lot of good Muslims in this world who want to live in harmony with others. Unfortunately they are being silenced by the the actions of the extremists and are killed if they speak up.

The recent Yugoslavian war proved that non-Muslims can be 100 times as vicious as Muslim extremists. One of my friends went and served in Serbia during that time. The incidents he mentioned made me puke but should have been a clear message to Muslim extremists like osama that two can play his game. The irony is that the big bad Americans rescued Croatia and Bosnia, a predominately Muslim base, from being completely butchered by the Serbs.

I've read up about Beslan. What's that got to do with whatever it is you're advocating?

He's advocating blowing up many schools to prevent the destruction of one.... :blink:

As usual you missed the point and have turned it around to suit yourself.

Edited September 13, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[Caladan 19]

Oh. The Green Lantern theory of politics? We just show Johnny Muslim we're serious-minded and then there won't be any more conflict? How's that worked, historically?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The 'for every 1 you kill, we shoot 10 of yours' strategery didn't exactly suppress the French Resistance.

As usual you missed the point and have turned it around to suit yourself.

I think you need to get a grip on what you are writing. Not too many ways of mis-interpreting this is there....?

The policy is quite simple. Kidnap and kill our children again and we blow up your entire city. Even an idiot can understand that concept of consequence for one's actions.

Either you believe it or you don't, but don't pretend that you didn't say it - and certainly don't pretend that you didn't say it in relation to a specific country.

I await the profound context that I apparently missed with baited breath...

Edited September 13, 2007 by Number 6

[Heracles 417]

Oh. The Green Lantern theory of politics? We just show Johnny Muslim we're serious-minded and then there won't be any more conflict? How's that worked, historically?

Like many lefties out there every action is met by negativity. Yet no real world solution is ever offered. Since war is wrong and holding a group accountable for their actions is apparently also a dumb idea, please enlighten me with these good alternatives..

The policy is quite simple. Kidnap and kill our children again and we blow up your entire city. Even an idiot can understand that concept of consequence for one's actions.

Either you believe it or you don't, but don't pretend that you didn't say it - and certainly don't pretend that you didn't say it in relation to a specific country.

I await the profound context that I apparently missed with baited breath...

So what do you recommend we do if or when a US or UK school is attacked in a similar fashion.

[Peikko 1,575]

Consequences for one's actions is something many extremist Muslims fail to understand. Not to my surprise you do as well. There are a lot of good Muslims in this world who want to live in harmony with others. Unfortunately they are being silenced by the the actions of the extremists and are killed if they speak up.

The recent Yugoslavian war proved that non-Muslims can be 100 times as vicious as Muslim extremists. One of my friends went and served in Serbia during that time. The incidents he mentioned made me puke but should have been a clear message to Muslim extremists like osama that two can play his game. The irony is that the big bad Americans rescued Croatia and Bosnia, a predominately Muslim base, from being completely butchered by the Serbs

The real irony is, I have no idea what this is meant to illustrate. We agree on one thing, that it's extreme muslims who are problematic in that the way they want to live their lives impedes massively on the way other people wish to live theirs. However, this, vicious this, consequences that...I have no clue what your point is.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Oh. The Green Lantern theory of politics? We just show Johnny Muslim we're serious-minded and then there won't be any more conflict? How's that worked, historically?

Like many lefties out there every action is met by negativity. Yet no real world solution is ever offered. Since war is wrong and holding a group accountable for their actions is apparently also a dumb idea, please enlighten me with these good alternatives..

The policy is quite simple. Kidnap and kill our children again and we blow up your entire city. Even an idiot can understand that concept of consequence for one's actions.

Either you believe it or you don't, but don't pretend that you didn't say it - and certainly don't pretend that you didn't say it in relation to a specific country.

I await the profound context that I apparently missed with baited breath...

So what do you recommend we do if or when a US or UK school is attacked in a similar fashion.

That wasn't ever my point, but I can see how coming up with these meat cleaver solutions is easy for you... You must wonder be awake at night wondering why the world is such an unnecessarily complex place.

You either believe what you said or you don't. Which is it?

BTW - I still don't understand how I missed the context of that statement. I'd still like you to explain how I misinterpreted it... What was your intended rationale?

All we’ve been saying is that the value judgements used to say X is good, Y is bad are inherently suspect. Again – you wouldn't think that a difficult concept to understand. Clearly it is...

Edited September 13, 2007 by Number 6

[Peikko 1,575]

Like many lefties out there every action is met by negativity

The only comment I have is, that's the consequence of making sweeping generalisations, you end up making statements that are nonsensical. Every action is met by negativity? What on earth can you possibly think you mean by writing that?

[Caladan 19]

Oh. The Green Lantern theory of politics? We just show Johnny Muslim we're serious-minded and then there won't be any more conflict? How's that worked, historically?

Like many lefties out there every action is met by negativity. Yet no real world solution is ever offered. Since war is wrong and holding a group accountable for their actions is apparently also a dumb idea, please enlighten me with these good alternatives..

The policy is quite simple. Kidnap and kill our children again and we blow up your entire city. Even an idiot can understand that concept of consequence for one's actions.

Either you believe it or you don't, but don't pretend that you didn't say it - and certainly don't pretend that you didn't say it in relation to a specific country.

I await the profound context that I apparently missed with baited breath...

So what do you recommend we do if or when a US or UK school is attacked in a similar fashion.

I think holding a group accountable is just dandy. But even accountability has to be proportional and aimed at the right targets. That means when a Sunni extremist group attacks you, invading a secular Shi'ite power is the wrong way to go about it. That's why blowing up an entire city as opposed to finding and executing the perpetrators is the wrong way to go about it.

If a U.S. school is attacked I would hope our response would be more than to blow up a bunch of school full of kids who had nothing to do with the attack.

[Heracles 417]

Oh. The Green Lantern theory of politics? We just show Johnny Muslim we're serious-minded and then there won't be any more conflict? How's that worked, historically?

Like many lefties out there every action is met by negativity. Yet no real world solution is ever offered. Since war is wrong and holding a group accountable for their actions is apparently also a dumb idea, please enlighten me with these good alternatives..

The policy is quite simple. Kidnap and kill our children again and we blow up your entire city. Even an idiot can understand that concept of consequence for one's actions.

Either you believe it or you don't, but don't pretend that you didn't say it - and certainly don't pretend that you didn't say it in relation to a specific country.

I await the profound context that I apparently missed with baited breath...

So what do you recommend we do if or when a US or UK school is attacked in a similar fashion.

That wasn't ever my point, but I can see how coming up with these meat cleaver solutions is easy for you... You must wonder be awake at night wondering why the world is such an unnecessarily complex place.

You either believe what you said or you don't. Which is it?

BTW - I still don't understand how I missed the context of that statement. I'd still like you to explain how I misinterpreted it... What was your intended rationale?

All we’ve been saying is that the value judgements used to say X is good, Y is bad are inherently suspect. Again – you wouldn't think that a difficult concept to understand. Clearly it is...

Do I stand for a policy of consequences for one's action, yes. What I am waiting for is real world solutions. Something I tend to ask for a lot from you guys. And I am not talking about some half assed I wish for 'world peace' answer.

PH, you mention how much you disprove of using war as a means of solving problems. Therefore you should be able to provide an alternative solution.

[DeadPoolX 9]

You see... I think this is the problem a number of Americans (and I suppose the U.S. government) has with the whole "international community" argument: we're going to do what is in our country's best interests, whether or not it falls in-step with everyone else or makes anyone else (besides Americans) happy in the end.

The U.S. government has a duty and responsibility to the citizens of the United States -- not to the United Kingdom, Canada, Germany, Mexico, France, Italy, or any other nation. It's nice when the goals set by the U.S. line up with that of other countries, but it's not a necessity nor is it a requirement in the least. I think this is something that many people from other countries have difficulty understanding and I'm not quite certain why.

After all, isn't it every country's duty and responsibility to it's own citizens, above all else? I would tend to think so. It's good to get another nation's input -- to hear a different viewpoint -- but at the end of the day, it's up to that country to decide for it's own citizens.

This doesn't mean every American will agree with every plan created by the U.S. government (I know I certainly don't), but I would be absolutely furious if another country's government made a decision for this country (just as I'm sure any other country would be angry if the U.S. ordered them to do something). Countries may offer suggestions, of course, or propose agreements and treaties, but they can never order another country to do what they want -- unless the country was conquered directly or indirectly through war, which does give another country the right to do whatever they wish with the land.

The point of this post is that while the U.S. does make some use of the "international community" (mostly for business-related purposes), the U.S. does not and will not go crawling to any other nation and beg them for permission to do what it feels it needs to do. If that makes others angry, then so be it. You can't please everybody, but then again, the U.S. isn't aiming to please everybody -- just it's own citizens.

[Heracles 417]

So what do you recommend we do if or when a US or UK school is attacked in a similar fashion.

I think holding a group accountable is just dandy. But even accountability has to be proportional and aimed at the right targets. That means when a Sunni extremist group attacks you, invading a secular Shi'ite power is the wrong way to go about it. That's why blowing up an entire city as opposed to finding and executing the perpetrators is the wrong way to go about it.

If a U.S. school is attacked I would hope our response would be more than to blow up a bunch of school full of kids who had nothing to do with the attack.

You have beaten around the bush without answering the question. What actions should be taken to prevent, as well as punish, such actions?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

So what do you recommend we do if or when a US or UK school is attacked in a similar fashion.

I think holding a group accountable is just dandy. But even accountability has to be proportional and aimed at the right targets. That means when a Sunni extremist group attacks you, invading a secular Shi'ite power is the wrong way to go about it. That's why blowing up an entire city as opposed to finding and executing the perpetrators is the wrong way to go about it.

If a U.S. school is attacked I would hope our response would be more than to blow up a bunch of school full of kids who had nothing to do with the attack.

You have beaten around the bush without answering the question. What actions should be taken to prevent, as well as punish, such actions?

Considering you have advocated an policy straight out of 1940's occupied France - I can see why you might think that the above post is 'beating around the bush'. That said - the idea of a targetted, proportional response is perfectly valid, and at least as specific as your idea for "indiscriminate punishment".

Asking people for some sort of 'explicit' strategy to a totally non-specific scenario is difficult enough, but when you aren't prepared to do it yourself... Well...

Edited September 13, 2007 by Number 6