Islam: a Plan for World Domination?

[Heracles 417]

Come on, stuff like that is always ignored hence why it is never discussed. The more someone hates the US, the less likely they are to talk about or care about anything another nation is doing. Iran's actions speak for themself. Just because we orchestrated the coup does not mean we actually carried it out ourself. Nonetheless, they need to get over it. Which in that region is almost impossible as holding on to grudges is their way of life. EG Palestinians. But I know you will not understand it, moving on that is, because you personally have advocated before that urban black Americans living in dense communities pretty much have a right to be violent because they where once segregated and oppressed. Therefore insinuating it is basically okay and understandable that they are more likely to use violence as a means to get their way.

PS What is leftist about it is the like-minded view of stuff.

1) We live in the US or are intending to move there. Its therefore somewhat natural that we focus on what our respective governments do or have gotten up to. It doesn't mean that everything else is ignored, or otherwise 'ok'.

2) The difference between orchestrating and carrying it out yourself is rather tenuous at best. Its still murder, whether you pull the trigger yourself or hire someone else to do it.

3) They should get over it? Well that isn't the issue anymore is it? The issue is that there is a historical legacy of distrust between two countries, and neither has any reason to trust the other. That is related entirely to the 1953 coup and the aftermath of the 1979 revolution. Different events - but they can't really be separated (i.e. the one precipitated the other).

4) I have never, ever stated implicitly or otherwise that a persons background gives them the right to conduct 'violent, criminal behaviours'. Given your fetish for sweeping generalisations however - I can see how a short and selective memory can be distort your perceptions.

Maybe you should look up the definition of implying. For example, If I said Australia is the best country in the universe. I would be implying the rest are not.

PS You guys generalize just as much as I do but I simply do not waste my time pointing it out every time.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

What I would like to know is what should the US do if a major city is attacked again? So lets assume LA is attacked and 100,000 die. The only thing we know is that Al Qaeda is responsible..

You also missed the general point that PH was making. It wasn't about what the US should or shouldn't do - it was merely about questioning the rigidly-held perceptions that people use to make value judgements on war (that group X is heroic, honourable and wonderful; while Group Y is evil, untrustworthy and stunty looking). Given how people lapped up '300' a few months ago - I'd say that's very much a widely held delusion.

[Heracles 417]

My point is, if you are going to engage in conflict/war, at least make sure that you have a workable plan to improve the situation that you are getting into so that the outcome is at least worth fighting for.

As things stand, Iraq is a mess with no tenable solution in sight which was predicted by many experts BEFORE the fighting began and is not simply a product of rose coloured hind site.

Agreed. What's 'wrong' or 'leftist' about that? Must just be me who doesn't see the connection..

no nothing wrong or leftist about that. what is wrong & leftist is that the left has conveniently forgotten, they voted & authorized going to war in iraq on the same intelligents info. now that the war isn't as popular of an idea it once was "Bush did it, Bush lied to us, its Bush's oil war"

You forget some of us came from outside of the US - and our public debates on this issue were rather different. There was massive (MASSIVE) public opposition to the war in the UK. What I don't understand is how the subsequent revelations as to the quality of intelligence and the conduct of politicians basically showed that the general public knew more than the policy-makers themselves at the time.

Given that this is questionable assertion at best, its no leap of faith to suggest that we were lied to. Everything that emerged subsequently (Curveball, the dodgy dossiers, admissions of former officials, the Downing Street Memo etc) validated the initial scepticism.

What was the reasoning behind the protests in the UK? Did they know the evidence was wrong or where they protesting about the point of going to war and that it was apparently, back then, about oil? The UK and many other nations refuse to roll up their sleeves to get the job done. For that I have a lot of respect for America. For example, the genocide in Dafur continues daily while wankers in the UK, Europe and the UN debate resolutions. Clearly you can sit down and discuss something with someone who is butchering people. Obviously they have the same mindset as an easyjet flying passenger.

Edited September 13, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Maybe you should look up the definition of implying. For example, If I said Australia is the best country in the universe. I would be implying the rest are not.

I didn't imply it either. In fact I remember explicitly stating on numerous occasions that I don't believe there's any excuse for violent criminal behaviour. I'll say it again here - "I don't believe there's any excuse for violent, criminal behaviour".

[smoke20 0]

My point is, if you are going to engage in conflict/war, at least make sure that you have a workable plan to improve the situation that you are getting into so that the outcome is at least worth fighting for.

As things stand, Iraq is a mess with no tenable solution in sight which was predicted by many experts BEFORE the fighting began and is not simply a product of rose coloured hind site.

Agreed. What's 'wrong' or 'leftist' about that? Must just be me who doesn't see the connection..

no nothing wrong or leftist about that. what is wrong & leftist is that the left has conveniently forgotten, they voted & authorized going to war in iraq on the same intelligents info. now that the war isn't as popular of an idea it once was "Bush did it, Bush lied to us, its Bush's oil war"

You forget some of us came from outside of the US - and our public debates on this issue were rather different. There was massive (MASSIVE) public opposition to the war in the UK. What I don't understand is how the subsequent revelations as to the quality of intelligence and the conduct of politicians basically showed that the general public knew more than the policy-makers themselves at the time.

Given that this is questionable assertion at best, its no leap of faith to suggest that we were lied to. Everything that emerged subsequently (Curveball, the dodgy dossiers, admissions of former officials, the Downing Street Memo etc) validated the initial scepticism.

i didn't forget anything & like i said -i'm not singling you or PH out about it-. i was talking about the folks in washington pointing at Bush & denying they voted in favor of the war on the same intel.

[Heracles 417]

Well I guess that is the difference between us. We look for solutions

Like nuking Chechnya, and meting out corporal punishment to kids?

You can pick and choose comments as you like. You love to talk about context but fail to apply it yourself..

[Peikko 1,575]

Well I guess that is the difference between us. We look for solutions whereas you guys

No, that's the difference between you and I, I don't see the us and them/black and white/good and bad/ left and right world that you do.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

What was the reasoning behind the protests in the UK? Did they know the evidence was wrong or where they protesting about the point of going to war and that it was apparently, back then, about oil? The UK and many other nations refuse to roll up their sleeves to get the job done. For that I have a lot of respect for America. For example, the genocide in Dafur continues daily while wankers in the UK, Europe and the UN debate resolutions. Clearly you can sit down and discuss something with someone who is butchering people. Obviously they have the same mindset as an easyjet flying passenger.

The Schizophrenia is showing again. I believe you said earlier that you admired the US and the UK for “rolling up” their collective sleeves and getting involved. Now the UK has been removed from that equation presumably because 'I' (a UK citizen) don't agree with you...

As to UK public opinion – people simply didn’t believe that SH was a danger, and that TB et al. was exaggerating the danger to facilitate an invasion. They have subsequently been proved right.

Well I guess that is the difference between us. We look for solutions

Like nuking Chechnya, and meting out corporal punishment to kids?

You can pick and choose comments as you like. You love to talk about context but fail to apply it yourself..

In this thread - what context is it that makes you think that a comment like that amounts to a justifiable and workable policy?

[Heracles 417]

Well I guess that is the difference between us. We look for solutions whereas you guys

No, that's the difference between you and I, I don't see the us and them/black and white/good and bad/ left and right world that you do.

Not a matter of us and them. Call it generalization. Call it whatever you like but most liberals tend to use the same tactics..

[Heracles 417]

What was the reasoning behind the protests in the UK? Did they know the evidence was wrong or where they protesting about the point of going to war and that it was apparently, back then, about oil? The UK and many other nations refuse to roll up their sleeves to get the job done. For that I have a lot of respect for America. For example, the genocide in Dafur continues daily while wankers in the UK, Europe and the UN debate resolutions. Clearly you can sit down and discuss something with someone who is butchering people. Obviously they have the same mindset as an easyjet flying passenger.

The Schizophrenia is showing again. I believe you said earlier that you admired the US and the UK for “rolling up†their collective sleeves and getting involved. Now the UK has been removed from that equation presumably because 'I' (a UK citizen) don't agree with you...

As to UK public opinion – people simply didn’t believe that SH was a danger, and that TB et al. was exaggerating the danger to facilitate an invasion. They have subsequently been proved right.

It was stated earlier that the people in the UK did not agree with or support their governments decision on Iraq. Therefore that comment was not a change in opinion but rather directed at those anti war easyjet flying type; who are sitting on their ####### while people are being slaughtered in Dafur. New flash, concerts or blogs don't stop genocide either.

Well I guess that is the difference between us. We look for solutions

Like nuking Chechnya, and meting out corporal punishment to kids?

You can pick and choose comments as you like. You love to talk about context but fail to apply it yourself..

In this thread - what context is it that makes you think that a comment like that amounts to a justifiable and workable policy?

The policy is quite simple. Kidnap and kill our children again and we blow up your entire city. Even an idiot can understand that concept of consequence for one's actions.

Edited September 13, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[Sister Fracas 5]

Well I guess that is the difference between us. We look for solutions whereas you guys

No, that's the difference between you and I, I don't see the us and them/black and white/good and bad/ left and right world that you do.

Not a matter of us and them. Call it generalization. Call it whatever you like but most liberals tend to use the same tactics..

Can I just ask a question? Have you become a US citizen already? and joined the Republican party?

You ARE Wog Boy, no?

[Heracles 417]

Well I guess that is the difference between us. We look for solutions whereas you guys

No, that's the difference between you and I, I don't see the us and them/black and white/good and bad/ left and right world that you do.

Not a matter of us and them. Call it generalization. Call it whatever you like but most liberals tend to use the same tactics..

Can I just ask a question? Have you become a US citizen already? and joined the Republican party?

You ARE Wog Boy, no?

No not wog boy. I cannot be republican because I have right wing views but am a federalist.

PS I also hate Chenney

Edited September 13, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It was stated earlier that the people in the UK did not agree with or support their governments decision on Iraq. Therefore that comment was not a change in opinion but rather directed at those anti war easyjet flying type; who are sitting on their ####### while people are being slaughtered in Dafur. New flash, concerts or blogs don't stop genocide either.

Sure. But when you're using that argument to attack "armchair commentators" - a person might well ask what you are doing (as in 'you' personally doing) that is so much different from everyone else. These forums are full of theoretical discussions - what you draw from that is your opinion, but you participate in them just the same...

The policy is quite simple. Kidnap and kill our children again and we blow up your entire city. Even an idiot can understand that concept of consequence for one's actions.

As Caladan pointed out - you don't see the most right-wing US politicians advocating these kinds of ideas (and the only place I can recall hearing these sorts of things is from drunken louts in the pub with half a high-school education to rub between them). What it does illustrate however, is complete ignorance and utter disregard of the idea of an 'international community' - the fallout from which will be rather different to what you might imagine.

No not wog boy. I cannot be republican because I have right wing views but am a federalist.

A "Federalist" who also wants a national ID card...

Edited September 13, 2007 by Number 6

[Sister Fracas 5]

No not wog boy. I cannot be republican because I have right wing views but am a federalist.

PS I also hate Chenney

hmmm, ok.... carry on....

[Heracles 417]

It was stated earlier that the people in the UK did not agree with or support their governments decision on Iraq. Therefore that comment was not a change in opinion but rather directed at those anti war easyjet flying type; who are sitting on their ####### while people are being slaughtered in Dafur. New flash, concerts or blogs don't stop genocide either.

Sure. But when you're using that argument to attack "armchair commentators" - a person might well ask what you are doing (as in 'you' personally doing) that is so much different from everyone else. These forums are full of theoretical discussions - what you draw from that is your opinion, but you participate in them just the same...

And your right. The only difference is that I do not condemn some who has put their ### on the line and trying to do something.

Apart from this guy.. Do democrats not realize stuff like this makes Americans look like idiots??

The policy is quite simple. Kidnap and kill our children again and we blow up your entire city. Even an idiot can understand that concept of consequence for one's actions.

As Caladan pointed out - you don't see the most right-wing US politicians making these kinds of ideas. What it does illustrate however, is complete ignorance and utter disregard of the idea of an 'international community' - the fallout from which will be rather different to what you might imagine.

Sorry but the so-called international community is not going to protect us. Maybe you and Caladan should have a read up on the Beslan case and see what they did to those kids, especially while being held hostage. Some of which is way too graphic to discuss here.

When someone, or a group, starts attacking kids, all bets are off.

A "Federalist" who also wants a national ID card...

i like bending the rules

Edited September 13, 2007 by Boo-Yah!