Islam: a Plan for World Domination?

[Stabu 0]

110% agree. No one seems to have a problem when Russia or China or anyone else for that matter looks after their own interests but always condemn the US.

I know why this is such a mess for the US. Most other country's business and agenda is discussed behind closed doors; where it remains. Whereas in the US everything is broadcast for anyone to see. Same goes with the strategies in Iraq. I understand what this country was founded on etc but there comes a point where people have to realize this is not the 18th century. Most other countries do not allow the media to publish their every move daily. Can you imagine a company doing this? They would be bankrupted quickly as all of their competitors would know exactly what they are doing.

But this is a totally different matter. The China occupies Tibet and a few other small countries and it has deep interrest in especially North Korea and Taiwan, at the same breath the Russians occupy half of the former Soviet countries and a few independently declared countries such as Chechen. This is however a far cry from having stationed soldiers in over 130 countries in the world. The US literally occupies over a half of the entire world! The Chinese and the Russians are very bad but their business is mostly restricted to their closest neighbours and former parts of their country.

[smoke20 0]

i fail to see where the US is trying to get middle eastern countries to submit to our way of life.

well basically, they have a way of life that is very different than ours...many people view the US backing of israel (yes it does come back to this is many ways) as a way to provide themselves with economic influence in the middle east (a region that they have previously had little to no influence in)...it can also be said that these wars (as there have been several) that the US insists on waging in the middle east are a way for them to destroy the infrastructure of these countries and then impose upon them a new type of economy and government to 'rebuild' the country (namely 'democracy' and capitalism)...by instituing such political systems, they place figurehead leaders in power who will support their capitalist agenda and allow them to pass legislation in support of it as well...the economic part is easy, once they have control of the government...i mean its easy to see that the recently rich oil countries are much more americanized than the other middle eastern countries...you can also notice that we dont wage wars with countries upon which we have some economic dependency (cough, oil, cough)...if you do the research, you will find that the majority of the hijackers involved with the attacks on 9/11 were from saudi arabia...are we at war with saudi arabia? as far as i know, nope...theres a reason for everything

oh shoot, now theyre gonna black bag me

Why do people say that about Saudi Arabia. Okay we will wage a war on them because of x individuals. Now, will Democrats support it?

Israel is America's friend and they have every right to help them out. It seems many in the world have a problem with that. Therfore they want to dictate what and who America should back with their money.

PS I understand what you are saying though since a lot of people overseas have similar views.

Thats pretty much why we went to war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Israel is a ####### child, they are causing more instability in the region than any other country. They can pretty much get away with doing anything they want since they have the US watching them.

yep, how dare Isreal not submit to islamic law. i believe thats why the peace loving gov'ts of iran & syria want to "whipe Isreal off the map"

[Heracles 417]

i fail to see where the US is trying to get middle eastern countries to submit to our way of life.

well basically, they have a way of life that is very different than ours...many people view the US backing of israel (yes it does come back to this is many ways) as a way to provide themselves with economic influence in the middle east (a region that they have previously had little to no influence in)...it can also be said that these wars (as there have been several) that the US insists on waging in the middle east are a way for them to destroy the infrastructure of these countries and then impose upon them a new type of economy and government to 'rebuild' the country (namely 'democracy' and capitalism)...by instituing such political systems, they place figurehead leaders in power who will support their capitalist agenda and allow them to pass legislation in support of it as well...the economic part is easy, once they have control of the government...i mean its easy to see that the recently rich oil countries are much more americanized than the other middle eastern countries...you can also notice that we dont wage wars with countries upon which we have some economic dependency (cough, oil, cough)...if you do the research, you will find that the majority of the hijackers involved with the attacks on 9/11 were from saudi arabia...are we at war with saudi arabia? as far as i know, nope...theres a reason for everything

oh shoot, now theyre gonna black bag me

Why do people say that about Saudi Arabia. Okay we will wage a war on them because of x individuals. Now, will Democrats support it?

Israel is America's friend and they have every right to help them out. It seems many in the world have a problem with that. Therfore they want to dictate what and who America should back with their money.

PS I understand what you are saying though since a lot of people overseas have similar views.

Thats pretty much why we went to war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Israel is a ####### child, they are causing more instability in the region than any other country. They can pretty much get away with doing anything they want since they have the US watching them.

yep, how dare Isreal not submit to islamic law. i believe thats why the peace loving gov'ts of iran & syria want to "whipe Isreal off the map"

Of course. The Middle East and peace go hand in hand.

Israel and America are the instigators and aggressors.

[smoke20 0]

110% agree. No one seems to have a problem when Russia or China or anyone else for that matter looks after their own interests but always condemn the US.

I know why this is such a mess for the US. Most other country's business and agenda is discussed behind closed doors; where it remains. Whereas in the US everything is broadcast for anyone to see. Same goes with the strategies in Iraq. I understand what this country was founded on etc but there comes a point where people have to realize this is not the 18th century. Most other countries do not allow the media to publish their every move daily. Can you imagine a company doing this? They would be bankrupted quickly as all of their competitors would know exactly what they are doing.

But this is a totally different matter. The China occupies Tibet and a few other small countries and it has deep interrest in especially North Korea and Taiwan, at the same breath the Russians occupy half of the former Soviet countries and a few independently declared countries such as Chechen. This is however a far cry from having stationed soldiers in over 130 countries in the world. The US literally occupies over a half of the entire world! The Chinese and the Russians are very bad but their business is mostly restricted to their closest neighbours and former parts of their country.

double standard & complete BS. having troops stationed somewhere & occuping a country are 2 different things.

Edited September 10, 2007 by smoke20

[Stabu 0]

yep, how dare Isreal not submit to islamic law. i believe thats why the peace loving gov'ts of iran & syria want to "whipe Isreal off the map"

Well Israel was a fabricated country. Just like many others, it's lines where drawn by UN resolutions after the IIWW. Before that, the land belonged to Arabs (even if it was occupied by Ottoman Turks or the Britts). After that the Jews have moved there and thus de facto invading the country by immigration. Also the Israelis have hundreds of nukes. They can take care of themselves. Even if they couldn't, it's not the task of the US tax payers to guard every signle border in the world. The US has their own borders to protect and looking at the stream of illegals going in, they aren't doing a very good job back home.

[smoke20 0]

yep, how dare Isreal not submit to islamic law. i believe thats why the peace loving gov'ts of iran & syria want to "whipe Isreal off the map"

Well Israel was a fabricated country. Just like many others, it's lines where drawn by UN resolutions after the IIWW. Before that, the land belonged to Arabs (even if it was occupied by Ottoman Turks or the Britts). After that the Jews have moved there and thus de facto invading the country by immigration. Also the Israelis have hundreds of nukes. They can take care of themselves. Even if they couldn't, it's not the task of the US tax payers to guard every signle border in the world. The US has their own borders to protect and looking at the stream of illegals going in, they aren't doing a very good job back home.

you're not going to get an arguement from me on illegals & border security, i'm with you all the way on that. but as far as fabricated countries.....1 that had run amuck(disregarding int'l laws), was very corrupt & brutal to its own citizens would be iraq. yet you forget to mention this in your any US gov't posts. you just want to talk about how wrong the US was for kicking the bathe party out of power.

Edited September 10, 2007 by smoke20

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

my post was called "the most arrogant and ignorant statement ive ever heard".

actually i didnt say that, read a little more carefully and you'll see...

'one of the fundamental problems between the us and many middle eastern countries is that these countries will not submit to our way of life...we want to go in there and tell them how to live, when they have been doing it for centuries...america is a baby and to think that we know better than them is the most arrogant and ignorant statement ive ever heard'

to clarify, i was saying that when we go into other countries and try and impose our way of life upon other people, it is the most arrogant thing we could possibly be doing, especially since we are such a young nation and have not seen the struggle that almost every other nation has had to face at some point in their history...IMO, i do think that your first comment conveys an arrogant attitude, but it is certainly not the most arrogant thing ive ever heard...

It's not hard to see the "we know what's best for you" attitude underlying the policies. Similarly its not hard to see how people would be irritated by that...

It sure as hell worked in Germany and Japan.. Now one of the greatest nations in the world..

And has totally failed in the Middle East. The US is more or less responsible for turning Iran into a theocratic dictatorship, or at the least - accelerating the process. Saddam was propped up out of the failure of their approach towards Iran; and the US still counts among its staunchest allies - barbaric countries like Saudi Arabia.

Edited September 10, 2007 by Number 6

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

No one seems to have a problem when Russia or China or anyone else for that matter looks after their own interests but always condemn the US.

That's not exactly accurate is it. If you do the most cursory Google search you will find a ton of criticism on Russian and Chinese foreign policy, not to mention their human rights records.

[smoke20 0]

my post was called "the most arrogant and ignorant statement ive ever heard".

actually i didnt say that, read a little more carefully and you'll see...

'one of the fundamental problems between the us and many middle eastern countries is that these countries will not submit to our way of life...we want to go in there and tell them how to live, when they have been doing it for centuries...america is a baby and to think that we know better than them is the most arrogant and ignorant statement ive ever heard'

to clarify, i was saying that when we go into other countries and try and impose our way of life upon other people, it is the most arrogant thing we could possibly be doing, especially since we are such a young nation and have not seen the struggle that almost every other nation has had to face at some point in their history...IMO, i do think that your first comment conveys an arrogant attitude, but it is certainly not the most arrogant thing ive ever heard...

It's not hard to see the "we know what's best for you" attitude underlying the policies. Similarly its not hard to see how people would be irritated by that...

It sure as hell worked in Germany and Japan.. Now one of the greatest nations in the world..

And has totally failed in the Middle East. The US is more or less responsible for turning Iran into a theocratic dictatorship, or at the least - accelerating the process. Saddam was propped up out of the failure of their approach towards Iran; and still counts among its staunchest allies - barbaric countries like Saudi Arabia.

how is the US responsible for the iranian gov't? & i'm pretty sure the UN not the US fabricated the country we call iraq.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

how is the US responsible for the iranian gov't?.

Operation Ajax facilitated a chain of events that led to the Iranian Revolution in 1979.

[Dan J 277]

i fail to see where the US is trying to get middle eastern countries to submit to our way of life.

well basically, they have a way of life that is very different than ours...many people view the US backing of israel (yes it does come back to this is many ways) as a way to provide themselves with economic influence in the middle east (a region that they have previously had little to no influence in)...it can also be said that these wars (as there have been several) that the US insists on waging in the middle east are a way for them to destroy the infrastructure of these countries and then impose upon them a new type of economy and government to 'rebuild' the country (namely 'democracy' and capitalism)...by instituing such political systems, they place figurehead leaders in power who will support their capitalist agenda and allow them to pass legislation in support of it as well...the economic part is easy, once they have control of the government...i mean its easy to see that the recently rich oil countries are much more americanized than the other middle eastern countries...you can also notice that we dont wage wars with countries upon which we have some economic dependency (cough, oil, cough)...if you do the research, you will find that the majority of the hijackers involved with the attacks on 9/11 were from saudi arabia...are we at war with saudi arabia? as far as i know, nope...theres a reason for everything

oh shoot, now theyre gonna black bag me

Why do people say that about Saudi Arabia. Okay we will wage a war on them because of x individuals. Now, will Democrats support it?

Israel is America's friend and they have every right to help them out. It seems many in the world have a problem with that. Therfore they want to dictate what and who America should back with their money.

PS I understand what you are saying though since a lot of people overseas have similar views.

Thats pretty much why we went to war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Israel is a ####### child, they are causing more instability in the region than any other country. They can pretty much get away with doing anything they want since they have the US watching them.

yep, how dare Isreal not submit to islamic law. i believe thats why the peace loving gov'ts of iran & syria want to "whipe Isreal off the map"

Sounds like the peace loving government of the US, who want to turn the world into free markets we can then exploit, regardless of the people who who live in the country want it that way.

Choose a government we like and keep your markets open to us, we like you. Don't and we will force you to change. Look at Venezuela, A democratically elected government (well maybe somewhat corruptly elected, but not much more corrupt than the US) that took more direct control of its resources such as oil. The conservatives don't like that, because it doesn't allow them to freely exploit the oil resources of the country. So even though, this guy was chosen by the people of the country, the US has supported opposition parties to run against him. Along with some politicians wanting to take him over militarily.

The US isn't about allowing the free will of a the people to choose their own form of government and their own type of market. The US is about creating markets that are favorable to US interests by force if necessary. In that respect they are not much different than Islamic extremists.

Saudi Arabia is one of the most repressive Islamic countries in the region. Even though we harp on the rhetoric of Democracy, and we used it as a justification to go to war in Iraq and Afghanistan, we let it slide with Saudi Arabia. Why? because they have created a favorable market to our interests.

If its an issue of defense, we can defend ourselves much more cheaply here at home, than we can abroad. And we can avoid thousands of civilian/military deaths as well. We still have attempted attacks here in the US, even though we are "supposed to be" fighting those who would attack us in Iraq.

[Dan J 277]

my post was called "the most arrogant and ignorant statement ive ever heard".

actually i didnt say that, read a little more carefully and you'll see...

'one of the fundamental problems between the us and many middle eastern countries is that these countries will not submit to our way of life...we want to go in there and tell them how to live, when they have been doing it for centuries...america is a baby and to think that we know better than them is the most arrogant and ignorant statement ive ever heard'

to clarify, i was saying that when we go into other countries and try and impose our way of life upon other people, it is the most arrogant thing we could possibly be doing, especially since we are such a young nation and have not seen the struggle that almost every other nation has had to face at some point in their history...IMO, i do think that your first comment conveys an arrogant attitude, but it is certainly not the most arrogant thing ive ever heard...

It's not hard to see the "we know what's best for you" attitude underlying the policies. Similarly its not hard to see how people would be irritated by that...

It sure as hell worked in Germany and Japan.. Now one of the greatest nations in the world..

And has totally failed in the Middle East. The US is more or less responsible for turning Iran into a theocratic dictatorship, or at the least - accelerating the process. Saddam was propped up out of the failure of their approach towards Iran; and still counts among its staunchest allies - barbaric countries like Saudi Arabia.

how is the US responsible for the iranian gov't? & i'm pretty sure the UN not the US fabricated the country we call iraq.

Guess who armed Iraq? In the Iran/Iraq war, we armed Iraq to fight against Iran who was seen as an ally of the USSR. Sort of a cold war battle fought by soldiers other than our own.

Then of course we have mister Regan who decided it would be a good idea to sell weapons to Iran with the whole Iran Contra scandal. Now we are kinda fighting both of them, who were armed, in part, with our weapons.

[Geist 0]

how is the US responsible for the iranian gov't? & i'm pretty sure the UN not the US fabricated the country we call iraq.

The UN didn't have anything to do with fabricating Iraq or any of the middle east, but only because the UN did not exist when the middle east was divided up. It happened after WW1 when the Ottoman Empire fell. The victors divided it up amongst themselves, without any regard to local situations.

[Ban Hammer 13,366]

While I really don't like to argue against Matt, since he is after all in a place where I wouldn't dare to go even if forced by a gun, I would still like to point out the other side of the coin. First of all, all soliders in the US army are currently mercenaries. They get paid a load of tax free money to kill. While I'm a complete wuss myself, I would consider such a job unethical. If those soldiers wouldn't go there for free, they would go there because they would be drafted to go there. Draft is temporary slavery. Talk is cheap yes, but all those who try to engage in it are silenced and ridiculed as being anti-American or unpatriotic espeically in the US.

having been there and done that, i can assure you that no one in the military is getting rich. there are better ways to make money than be, as you call it "a mercenary.'"

tax free money to kill? no, that's a bonus for being there and working 16+ hour days. also note that mercenaries don't claim alligence to any particular country, so your word usage might be refined a bit.

[Ban Hammer 13,366]

Guess who armed Iraq? In the Iran/Iraq war, we armed Iraq to fight against Iran who was seen as an ally of the USSR. Sort of a cold war battle fought by soldiers other than our own.

Then of course we have mister Regan who decided it would be a good idea to sell weapons to Iran with the whole Iran Contra scandal. Now we are kinda fighting both of them, who were armed, in part, with our weapons.

france. brazil. ussr. and others. predominately ussr. for some reason i didn't see any iraqi-operated us-built tanks burning on the battlefield in 91

Edited September 10, 2007 by charlesandnessa