Canadians who travelled to US to have brain tumors removed are suing Ontario for long wait times

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Two Ontario patients who had brain tumours removed in the United States because they say they couldn't get quick treatment here are suing the provincial government over what they claim are unjustly long wait times for medical care.

Lindsay McCreith, 66, of Newmarket and Shona Holmes, 43, of Waterdown filed a joint statement of claim yesterday against the province of Ontario. Both say their health suffered because they are denied the right to access care outside of Ontario's "government-run monopolistic" health-care system. They want to be able to buy private health insurance.

Ontario's "monopoly" over essential health services and its delay in providing the services have left both patients to "endure significant financial, emotional and physical hardship to access such services in the United States," states the claim .

The accusations made in the statement of claim have not been proven in court.

Holmes began losing her vision in March 2005, she told a press conference at Queen's Park yesterday. An MRI in May 2005 revealed a tumour in her brain. Her family doctor couldn't expedite appointments booked with specialists for July 19 and Sept. 19, 2005. As the tumour pressed on her optic nerves, her vision deteriorated. Afraid to wait any longer, she went to the Mayo Clinic in Scottsdale, Ariz.

Within a week she met three specialists and was told she had a fluid-filled sac growing near her pituitary gland at the base of her brain. They urged her to have it taken out immediately. She went home with the hopes of quickly removing what is known as a Rathke's cleft cyst.

Unable to get surgery fast, she returned to Arizona and had the mass removed on Aug. 1, 2005. Her vision was restored in 10 days. The Holmes family is now in debt $95,000 because of medical costs.

"My husband has taken a second full-time job. We've re-mortgaged our home. It has to be known. People can't go through this," said Holmes, a family mediator. "I was very fortunate to save my eyesight but the cost and the battle has been devastating."

David Spencer, a spokesperson for Health Minister George Smitherman, said the minister can say little as this matter is before the courts.

"We understand there is a statement of claim being put forward. It's our intention to be there to vigorously defend the public health system."

The Canadian Constitution Foundation, a non-profit group, is backing the legal action by McCreith and Holmes.

The CCF has dubbed the lawsuit the "Ontario Chaoulli." Dr. Jacques Chaoulli went to court in Quebec on behalf of his patient George Zeliotis, who suffered acute pain while waiting for a hip replacement. In June 2005, the Supreme Court of Canada handed down a decision in favour of Chaoulli by striking down Quebec's ban on private health insurance.

Many felt the decision would open the door to increased access to private health-care in Quebec, but that has yet to happen.

Holmes' experience was similar to that of Lindsay McCreith, a retired auto collision repair shop owner. According to the statement of claim, McCreith suddenly experienced seizures on Jan. 2, 2006. After waiting seven hours in a Newmarket emergency ward, he was examined by an internist. A computed tomography or CT scan showed a large wedge-shaped brain tumour. He was discharged from hospital four days later with a diagnosis of stroke and a prescription for anti-seizure medication.

Worried the tumour might be cancerous, McCreith and his family wanted an MRI. He was given an appointment date four months later. McCreith went to the U.S. and paid $494.67 (U.S.) for an MRI. Armed with the scan, he saw his Ontario family doctor, who referred McCreith to a neurologist. He was examined on Feb. 8, 2006. He was referred to a neurosurgeon but would have to wait three months.

Unhappy with this, he returned to Buffalo. In early March, during a biopsy, the tumour was found to be malignant and surgically removed. He paid $27,650 for his consultation, biopsy and surgery in Buffalo and OHIP has refused to reimburse him because he failed to seek pre-approval for the expense, the claim notes.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/253664

[almaty 19]

hmmm//sounds like canada has a little delay in some medical procedure..

[Dan J 277]

Two Ontario patients who had brain tumours removed in the United States because they say they couldn't get quick treatment here are suing the provincial government over what they claim are unjustly long wait times for medical care.

Lindsay McCreith, 66, of Newmarket and Shona Holmes, 43, of Waterdown filed a joint statement of claim yesterday against the province of Ontario. Both say their health suffered because they are denied the right to access care outside of Ontario's "government-run monopolistic" health-care system. They want to be able to buy private health insurance.

Ontario's "monopoly" over essential health services and its delay in providing the services have left both patients to "endure significant financial, emotional and physical hardship to access such services in the United States," states the claim .

The accusations made in the statement of claim have not been proven in court.

Holmes began losing her vision in March 2005, she told a press conference at Queen's Park yesterday. An MRI in May 2005 revealed a tumour in her brain. Her family doctor couldn't expedite appointments booked with specialists for July 19 and Sept. 19, 2005. As the tumour pressed on her optic nerves, her vision deteriorated. Afraid to wait any longer, she went to the Mayo Clinic in Scottsdale, Ariz.

Within a week she met three specialists and was told she had a fluid-filled sac growing near her pituitary gland at the base of her brain. They urged her to have it taken out immediately. She went home with the hopes of quickly removing what is known as a Rathke's cleft cyst.

Unable to get surgery fast, she returned to Arizona and had the mass removed on Aug. 1, 2005. Her vision was restored in 10 days. The Holmes family is now in debt $95,000 because of medical costs.

"My husband has taken a second full-time job. We've re-mortgaged our home. It has to be known. People can't go through this," said Holmes, a family mediator. "I was very fortunate to save my eyesight but the cost and the battle has been devastating."

David Spencer, a spokesperson for Health Minister George Smitherman, said the minister can say little as this matter is before the courts.

"We understand there is a statement of claim being put forward. It's our intention to be there to vigorously defend the public health system."

The Canadian Constitution Foundation, a non-profit group, is backing the legal action by McCreith and Holmes.

The CCF has dubbed the lawsuit the "Ontario Chaoulli." Dr. Jacques Chaoulli went to court in Quebec on behalf of his patient George Zeliotis, who suffered acute pain while waiting for a hip replacement. In June 2005, the Supreme Court of Canada handed down a decision in favour of Chaoulli by striking down Quebec's ban on private health insurance.

Many felt the decision would open the door to increased access to private health-care in Quebec, but that has yet to happen.

Holmes' experience was similar to that of Lindsay McCreith, a retired auto collision repair shop owner. According to the statement of claim, McCreith suddenly experienced seizures on Jan. 2, 2006. After waiting seven hours in a Newmarket emergency ward, he was examined by an internist. A computed tomography or CT scan showed a large wedge-shaped brain tumour. He was discharged from hospital four days later with a diagnosis of stroke and a prescription for anti-seizure medication.

Worried the tumour might be cancerous, McCreith and his family wanted an MRI. He was given an appointment date four months later. McCreith went to the U.S. and paid $494.67 (U.S.) for an MRI. Armed with the scan, he saw his Ontario family doctor, who referred McCreith to a neurologist. He was examined on Feb. 8, 2006. He was referred to a neurosurgeon but would have to wait three months.

Unhappy with this, he returned to Buffalo. In early March, during a biopsy, the tumour was found to be malignant and surgically removed. He paid $27,650 for his consultation, biopsy and surgery in Buffalo and OHIP has refused to reimburse him because he failed to seek pre-approval for the expense, the claim notes.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/253664

Lets see here, They want private health care and go into the US to get it, but then they expect their insurance to pick on the tab? Insurance which is likely based on the cost of care in Canada.

[Ban Hammer 13,360]

hmmm//sounds like canada has a little delay in some medical procedure..

but to hear some tell it, they have a far better medical system than ours

[Dan J 277]

hmmm//sounds like canada has a little delay in some medical procedure..

but to hear some tell it, they have a far better medical system than ours

This is from the person who get socialized and subsidized health care in a private system

[Ban Hammer 13,360]

hmmm//sounds like canada has a little delay in some medical procedure..

but to hear some tell it, they have a far better medical system than ours

This is from the person who get socialized and subsidized health care in a private system

who is that?

[trailmix 77]

The thing is the wait times are not acceptable - in theory they are supposed to be working on that now.

However, in the case of the woman, she mortgaged her house etc to get treatment, who is to say that if private insurance was available in Canada that she would have had the private insurance anyway?

Also as far as the surgery being paid for by the Canadian health plan, sometimes they will pay for such things if the wait times are unacceptable - which seems correct to me.

How many people does this happen to in the U.S. on a daily basis, people who have to mortgage their house to the hilt to receive the kind of treatment she required (I don't know - I'm asking).

I lived in NZ for several years, which had a 2 tier health system, everyone is covered however if you want to avoid long wait times you have to buy private insurance to go to a private health care provider.

I worked with a man who needed a hip replacement, he was in a lot of pain and he had to wait 3 years for his surgery. He either could not afford the additional insurance or he chose not to take it.

No system is perfect.

[MissStacey 1]

I only know my experience was good. My mom and sister rushed me to the hospital on night- it was a gallbladder attack. The Doctor knew what it was right away. After being at the hospital a little while, I felt fine and went home.

I had another attack the next night and went back- they kept me overnight and took it out the next day.

I know I lucked out- many people do wait quite a while to get surgeries done.

[mawilson 2,133]

I thought it was about

"Canadians who travelled to US to have brains removed are suing Ontario for long wait times"

[Caladan 19]

I am certain that every U.S. private HMO lets you travel out of the country to see whatever specialist you want and picks up the tab, right?

Believe it or not, you can have private insurance in Canada, too. At least you can in Alberta. Many people don't, but it isn't illegal. And while there are delays, oddly enough, you wouldn't believe the sorts of delays you have trying to treat a brain tumor with no insurance in the U.S.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Try and buy private heath insurance having a brain tumor and have the insurance company pay for your treatment. Not gonna happen.

[Heracles 417]

hmmm//sounds like canada has a little delay in some medical procedure..

but to hear some tell it, they have a far better medical system than ours

Exactly.. I am sure Michael Moore would claim this is a conspiracy..

Every system has it pros and cons. Poor service and long wait times are inevitable under a socialized system.

Edited September 7, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

hmmm//sounds like canada has a little delay in some medical procedure..

but to hear some tell it, they have a far better medical system than ours

Exactly.. I am sure Michael Moore would claim this is a conspiracy..

Every system has it pros and cons. Poor service and long wait times are inevitable under a socialized system.

Funny. I am not aware of any single member of my family having experienced either in Germany.

I've experienced both here in the US.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Try and buy private heath insurance having a brain tumor and have the insurance company pay for your treatment. Not gonna happen.

Indeed - you'd be pretty much screwed. My FIL has a heart condition and was laid off twice in 5 years - each time having to start afresh with new insurance. I don't know how much he pays - but its enough that they couldn't afford adding his wife to the plan.

[DeadPoolX 9]

I am certain that every U.S. private HMO lets you travel out of the country to see whatever specialist you want and picks up the tab, right?

Believe it or not, you can have private insurance in Canada, too. At least you can in Alberta. Many people don't, but it isn't illegal. And while there are delays, oddly enough, you wouldn't believe the sorts of delays you have trying to treat a brain tumor with no insurance in the U.S.

From what I understand, every province (much like every state here in the U.S.) in Canada runs health care differently though. Ontario works under a far more "socialized" system than Alberta. This probably explains why the ability to purchase private medical insurance in Ontario isn't an option, whereas it is doable in Alberta.

I don't know much about the other provinces, however. It'd be interesting to see how they all compared.

Anyway... the point is that, in many cases involving expensive procedures, there can be very long wait times for patients in Canada. More often than not, this isn't the case in the United States; however, health care here is usually much more expensive. So in essence, you pay for that quick access.

As stated by someone else in this thread, no country's health care system is "perfect." They all have flaws and could be improved.