Dog fighting the norm in the south

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I'm curious - why is dog fighting such a big deal?

Serious question.

They're being bred and trained to fight until death. You don't find that barbaric?

Not really - or at least no more barbaric than animals being bred and slaughtered for food.

("I bredbread them and then I deep-fry them.")

There's a difference between hunting animals for food and hunting just for the sport of it.

So if the pitbulls were eaten after the fight, you'd be ok with it?

Seriously, you don't see any difference in the method by which an animal is killed?

...

Kosher slaughter is also known in Hebrew as "shechita."

Judaism has always respected the lives of animal - from the time of giving of the Ten Commandments until the present. Rules for kosher slaughtering of animals developed from the rules of the sacrificial system in the Temple. By the time of the Rabbis - at least 2000 years ago - Jews took the lives of animals as humanely as possible according to the best science of the day.

During those 3000 and more years, animals were slaughtered in the most inhumane ways by virtually every people on the face of the earth. This inhumane slaughtering continues today in more places in the world than not.

Recently, kosher slaughtering has been undergoing some change in response to new scientific information. Jews have begun to alter the traditional "hoisting and shackling" to favor a pen, even though it is a much slower procedure and increases the cost of kosher meat.

In addition to being lifted up, a ritual slaughterer must move to the animal quickly, use a knife that is incredibly sharp and without even the slightest nick, and cut through the animal's trachea and esophagus in a single motion (at least one of these for fowl). All this is required in order to try to minimize the animal's suffering.

The ultimate question is whether it is possible to kill an animal without causing some pain and fear? Given the answer is not definitely positive, Judaism has endorsed vegetarianism - which does not require killing an animal - as a "higher" form of eating.

In sum, you can reassure your son that kosher slaughtering is the way that Jews try to minimize the pain and fear felt by animals being killed for food.

http://judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabb...laughtering.htm

[mawilson 2,133]

Seriously, you don't see any difference in the method by which an animal is killed?

I do, but I don't think the dogs know the difference when they kill other dogs in a fight.

Hence "dog fighting", not "hunting dogs for fun".

[no name 1]

Seriously, you don't see any difference in the method by which an animal is killed?

I do, but I don't think the dogs know the difference when they kill other dogs in a fight.

Hence "dog fighting", not "hunting dogs for fun".

No one 'hunts' (domestic animals) dogs for fun....fights, yes, but not hunts.

No go hunt your cow down, it's time for steak!

Edited September 5, 2007 by devilette

[mawilson 2,133]

No one 'hunts' (domestic animals) dogs for fun....fights, yes, but not hunts.

Exactly my point - humans don't kill dogs, dogs kill dogs. If you think it's barbaric, go talk to the dogs.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Seriously, you don't see any difference in the method by which an animal is killed?

I do, but I don't think the dogs know the difference when they kill other dogs in a fight.

Hence "dog fighting", not "hunting dogs for fun".

There was a movie made recently, starring Jet Li. He was trained like an animal to fight to the death. There's a lot of brutality towards the dogs in order to keep them aggressive. I just don't think it's in the nature of a dog to simply fight to the death for the sake of it. Dogs are protective but like humans, they are social animals. There has to be some form of depravity towards a dog to get it to want to kill another dog without provocation.

[russ 1]

No one 'hunts' (domestic animals) dogs for fun....fights, yes, but not hunts.

Exactly my point - humans don't kill dogs, dogs kill dogs. If you think it's barbaric, go talk to the dogs.

Some key points here:

o The Michael Vick/Dogfighting case involved them them killing dogs in a cruel an painful fashion, in addition to the dog fighting.

o Whether anyone things dog fighting is right or wrong, it is against federal law. Which is why he is in trouble. You might not think music piracy is wrong either, but it is still a copyright violation, which still has a legal remedy as well. There are plenty of laws I disagree with, though I am still required to comply with them.

o No one said anything about 'hunting' dogs. Dogs are often used in the course of hunting, and in some cases, these dogs are treated poorly. I have no problem with dogs being used to hunt. This is the reason that humans created modern dogs. I do have a problem with these dogs being mistreated.

o Dogs are not humans. They do not understand 'right' and 'wrong.' They are pack animals, and responsibly owning one requires that its owner act as the dog's master. The dog views a human as the head of the pack, and will do what the human wants it to.

o Society does not have a problem with animals dying. We need to eat as much as dogs do. By definition, society is a consenus opinion. Society has decided that dogs should not be tortured.

o Animals die. Such is the nature of the food chain. Intentionally torturing animals is another thing altogether.

[russ 1]

There's a lot of brutality towards the dogs in order to keep them aggressive. I just don't think it's in the nature of a dog to simply fight to the death for the sake of it.

Dogs have been bred by humans to have behavioral qualities that we want.

The reason that dogs will fight to the death is that their owners had conditioned them to do so. Dogs are willing to kill themselves to please their owners.

I have had a pit bull. It was a very gentle dog. It was also very powerful, and capable of much damage it he were motivated to do so. This violence was directed exclusively to dog toys.

My dog now (a beagle) is not capable of harming a person. He is certainly a hunter though. If he smells a rabbit or squirel, almost nothing will keep him from tracking it.

[mawilson 2,133]

Thanks for your explanation, Russ.

[Stabu 0]

They're being bred and trained to fight until death. You don't find that barbaric?

I think there are two issues that need to be separated in here: 1) is dog fighting right form a moral stand point and 2) should it be illegal (I know it currently is).

I personally find dogfights disgusting, just as I find bullfighting and Kosher/Halal slaughter to be disgusting. Thus I choose to opt out of these practices but I don't think they should be banned. If I would support a ban like this, I would have learned nothing from history since it clearly shows how "effective" these government bans against things such as alcohol and drugs have been in the past. In the same manner I find human fights disgusting. I especially think that boxing, thai boxing and ultimate fighting are disgusting practices but I wouldn't choose to ban them. It would only make matters worse.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Fox Hunting was a UK class tradition for many hundreds of years until it was banned a year or so ago. I don't believe there's much of an underground industry going on there...

Just goes to show, a person doesn't have to be 'low class' to be cruel.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

They're being bred and trained to fight until death. You don't find that barbaric?

I think there are two issues that need to be separated in here: 1) is dog fighting right form a moral stand point and 2) should it be illegal (I know it currently is).

I personally find dogfights disgusting, just as I find bullfighting and Kosher/Halal slaughter to be disgusting. Thus I choose to opt out of these practices but I don't think they should be banned. If I would support a ban like this, I would have learned nothing from history since it clearly shows how "effective" these government bans against things such as alcohol and drugs have been in the past. In the same manner I find human fights disgusting. I especially think that boxing, thai boxing and ultimate fighting are disgusting practices but I wouldn't choose to ban them. It would only make matters worse.

You are Dutch?

[Mephys 2]

Please don't blame the pitbulls at least.

Here's from Wikipedia:

"In many shelters across the United States, Pit bulls or dogs that appear to be pit bulls comprise a large portion of the shelter's population and may be destroyed due to the stigma associated with the breed (or because of overcrowding). [2]

Although friendliness and tolerance towards humans are traits of the breed, there are, as in any breed, those that are dangerous toward humans. It is the owner's responsibility to be in total control of his dog(s), and it is the owner who, through intentional mistreatment or neglect, is frequently responsible for pit bull bites. Many attacks by other dog breeds are misclassified as "pit bulls" by media reports.[3]

Regardless of who he is, any owner of a pit bull must train the dog well. Lack of proper socialization and strong training can result in a dog with aggressive tendencies. Under the care of an overly-permissive or uneducated owner, pit bulls (or any other large breed) can become very dangerous dogs. [4]

More info here

[mawilson 2,133]

Regardless of who he is, any owner of a pit bull must train the dog well. Lack of proper socialization and strong training can result in a dog with aggressive tendencies. Under the care of an overly-permissive or uneducated owner, pit bulls (or any other large breed) can become very dangerous dogs. [4]

Very scary. I think it's safer to destroy them.

(Or use them in a dog fight and collect $$$ if you don't mind breaking the law.)

[Heracles 417]

Please don't blame the pitbulls at least.

More info here

Interesting because the American Pitbull is actually now banned in Australia for safety reasons. All remaining American pitbulls must be put to death.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Please don't blame the pitbulls at least.

Here's from Wikipedia:

"In many shelters across the United States, Pit bulls or dogs that appear to be pit bulls comprise a large portion of the shelter's population and may be destroyed due to the stigma associated with the breed (or because of overcrowding). [2]

Although friendliness and tolerance towards humans are traits of the breed, there are, as in any breed, those that are dangerous toward humans. It is the owner's responsibility to be in total control of his dog(s), and it is the owner who, through intentional mistreatment or neglect, is frequently responsible for pit bull bites. Many attacks by other dog breeds are misclassified as "pit bulls" by media reports.[3]

Regardless of who he is, any owner of a pit bull must train the dog well. Lack of proper socialization and strong training can result in a dog with aggressive tendencies. Under the care of an overly-permissive or uneducated owner, pit bulls (or any other large breed) can become very dangerous dogs. [4]

More info here

How does a passerby know whether the pit bull on the leash is friendly or not? They're jaw strength is way beyond most other breeds. Being around them is like swimming in a pool of domesticated sharks. I'd like to see the breed as it currently exists, eliminated.