HALAL MEAT YES OR NO ACCORDING TO THE QURAN!

[Nasturtium 500]

Hi,

thanks for the response. Actualy as far as pork goes yes its prohibited in Islam and Judaism, in Judaism because the old testement clearly states as does the Quran that it is unclean. It SHOULD also be prohoibited in christianity but the christians argue (it is infact an extremely weak argument with no basis) that pork is allowed because saint Paul had a dream that God made all animals clean. This argument is flawed first of all SAINT Paul, he is supposidly a saint not a prophet, only prophets have direct communication with God hence why they are called prophets, secondly why would God change his words, I thought he is all mighty all knowing, the truth is he NEVER changes his words only HUMANS do. Third if all animals are clean Im yet to find christians eating rat burgers or a dog burger. Fourth Jesus clearly states in matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.

Adiel (Mireys hubby)

Hi,

Firstly it was Peter not Paul with the dream, and as a Christian one would accept the idea that God can speak with whom He wills. Secondly, there are two issues-- Torah or Rabbinical Kosher, and either way it's more than just pork which is prohibited from the animal kingdom, including the shellfish but not excluding other land animals (the shellfish argument is that they are bottom feeders or low on the food chain and therefore unclean.). But back to the first-- the position is God did not change His words-- the point was in reference to sitting and eating with Goyim-- which was Rabbinically considered an unclean act. God was making a point-- He is the one who decided clean and unclean, and if he says somehting is clean it is clean. Christians do not believe God is bound by anything except that which He wills, since we believe he is all-powerful and not subject to rules. At the same time, He tends to be constant and not random In addition, rat and dog uncleanliness is Kosher-- but in your example a cutlural taboo not a religious one. Finally, in reference to your quote from Jesus above, He came to fufill the Mosaic code (613 laws total, which is stated that if you break one you are guilty of them all-- so Christians who harp on keeping the 10 commandments but cannot seem to answer why they don't keep the sabbath nor dietary laws need to learn why, as an aside) which is now null and void and replaced by the Christ Covanent, or law of Christ (as opposed to law of Moses). So actually by pointing that out, you have pointed out why teh kosher laws are rendered invalid and why, although I for one am still sticking as close to vegetarian as I can get with a meat-eating husband!

[deemabrouk 0]

the problem here I think goes BEYOND the halal slaughter in its self...

The animal IS supposed to be Properly handled and fed.. Not abused... and not done in front of other animals

In america with its mass consumption... the typical slaughter house is over crowded.. the animals are NOT properly fed ( tons of research about animals being re-fed other animals in their feed) the animals are physically abused.. and killed infront of the others causing terror and stress.. None of that is Halal...

“Verily Allâh has prescribed proficiency in all things. Thus, if you kill; kill well. And when you slaughter an animal, do it in a good way; and you should sharpen your blade and the animal must be spared from discomfort and suffering.” (Sahih Muslim).

Narrated Shaddad ibn Aws: "Two are the things which I remember Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) having said: Verily Allah has prescribed goodness for everything; so when you kill, kill in a good way and when you slaughter, slaughter in a good way. So every one of you should sharpen his knife, and let the slaughtered animal die comfortably." [Muslim]

now I dont wanna eat my lunch

[deemabrouk 0]

and yes... cause i AM a vegetarian.. . I DO gotta go there...

http://www.savethesheep.com/f-ausliveexport.asp

http://ninemsn.video.msn.com/v/en-au/v.htm...nutes&t=s29

if the link above doesnt work... you can get the 60 minutes video off of this..

http://www.savethesheep.com/f-australialiveexports.asp

[slbois 0]

This is yet another topic that can be debated around in circles. I believe that this is all a matter of preference and interpretation. I don't think any of us are going to hell because we eat a hamburger that was not ritualistically slaughtered before it came to the grill at BK. One has to take in account the smaller muslim communities where there are no halal butchers (like our town).

My family are not big meat eaters so this is not a huge deal for us. But every now and then we do like to eat a hamburger as I've mentioned several times in this thread.

I trust our Imam. He is well versed in the Qur'an and of course is more knowledgable than me. If he says it's okay, then who am I to argue?

[bszoom42 0]

To me, what deemabrouk is saying seems to be at odds with that the_dip_sticks is saying. I am going to wait to see what the_dip_sticks response is, as I am not qualified to argue either way.

[deemabrouk 0]

To me, what deemabrouk is saying seems to be at odds with that the_dip_sticks is saying. I am going to wait to see what the_dip_sticks response is, as I am not qualified to argue either way.

well to EVERYTHING in Islam there is a Bigger picture.. we ofcourse have to follow the 5 pillars... but is that it? Nope. You have to try and follow Sunnah... Be a better person... DO the right thing... etc.

So thats my point... there is the halal Slaughter... but Also what follows is treating the animal in a Halal manner.. That is TRUELY what makes it halal.....

and yes Islam is easy... not supposed to be hard.. if we were dying in the desert and magically a pig walks around the sand dune... we can eat it to survive?? Yup

But in the "land of plenty" I think the arguement is weak... there are other "halal" things to eat if you dont have any Halal meat shops near you......

My Imam said that Yes they go to non halal restaraunts.. but him and his wife will get a veggie/ pasta dish or seafood... No Biggie

[Caladan 19]

Hi,

thanks for the response. Actualy as far as pork goes yes its prohibited in Islam and Judaism, in Judaism because the old testement clearly states as does the Quran that it is unclean. It SHOULD also be prohoibited in christianity but the christians argue (it is infact an extremely weak argument with no basis) that pork is allowed because saint Paul had a dream that God made all animals clean. This argument is flawed first of all SAINT Paul, he is supposidly a saint not a prophet, only prophets have direct communication with God hence why they are called prophets, secondly why would God change his words, I thought he is all mighty all knowing, the truth is he NEVER changes his words only HUMANS do. Third if all animals are clean Im yet to find christians eating rat burgers or a dog burger. Fourth Jesus clearly states in matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.

Adiel (Mireys hubby)

Hi,

Firstly it was Peter not Paul with the dream, and as a Christian one would accept the idea that God can speak with whom He wills. Secondly, there are two issues-- Torah or Rabbinical Kosher, and either way it's more than just pork which is prohibited from the animal kingdom, including the shellfish but not excluding other land animals (the shellfish argument is that they are bottom feeders or low on the food chain and therefore unclean.). But back to the first-- the position is God did not change His words-- the point was in reference to sitting and eating with Goyim-- which was Rabbinically considered an unclean act. God was making a point-- He is the one who decided clean and unclean, and if he says somehting is clean it is clean. Christians do not believe God is bound by anything except that which He wills, since we believe he is all-powerful and not subject to rules. At the same time, He tends to be constant and not random In addition, rat and dog uncleanliness is Kosher-- but in your example a cutlural taboo not a religious one. Finally, in reference to your quote from Jesus above, He came to fufill the Mosaic code (613 laws total, which is stated that if you break one you are guilty of them all-- so Christians who harp on keeping the 10 commandments but cannot seem to answer why they don't keep the sabbath nor dietary laws need to learn why, as an aside) which is now null and void and replaced by the Christ Covanent, or law of Christ (as opposed to law of Moses). So actually by pointing that out, you have pointed out why teh kosher laws are rendered invalid and why, although I for one am still sticking as close to vegetarian as I can get with a meat-eating husband!

Thanks for adding this... I've read here before that 'Christians just musta wanted to eat pork and changed it LOL!', but the usual interpretation is that Christ was a Big Deal with a Brand New Covenant, and one of the things about the Brand New Covenant was that God was no longer to be considered just the God of the Hebrews, and that meant a lot of the signs of Being God's People (not eating certain things, considering other peoples unclean, the whole priestly intercession) no longer applied. God didn't change God's mind as much as God said 'The old covenant has been fulfilled. The terms of the new covenant are different.'

And this was communicated to Peter in a dream when he was wondering (as were a lot of other early Christians) whether new converts had to become Jews first in order to be Christians. The answer was 'call nothing that God has made unclean', or 'once again, Peter, you may be the rock but goodness you're clueless at times.'

[deemabrouk 0]

I wanna edit too... cause i re read the OP stress on the Quran and NOT hadith!!!!!

there also numerous suras about the proper treatment of animals... the she camel being on of my fav's..

and if you seem to have a problem with HADITH... the best thing to look at is SUNNAH!!!!

which the life of the prophet saw is supposed to be a great translation of the quran.

"There is not an animal that lives on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings, but forms part of communities like you. Nothing have We omitted from the Book, and they all shall be gathered to their Lord in the end." (Sura 6:38)

[deemabrouk 0]

*edit

Sura 7 Alaraf - talking about the she camel.......

[slbois 0]

To me, what deemabrouk is saying seems to be at odds with that the_dip_sticks is saying. I am going to wait to see what the_dip_sticks response is, as I am not qualified to argue either way.

Well, if you're going to put it that way...no one on this forum is qualified to argue either way. And although I think that Adiel's husband makes a lot of good points, of course his opinions are just that...opinions.

[bhajishah 4]

Quran also states to do what you can , strive to be near Allah. NOt do what is easy , lazy way , or feels good. Ie modern conveinance and pursuits draw us more and more away from realization of ALLAH. WHy not do wha you can to even meet the basics.consuming clean slaughter foods in the tradition of halal. ep since butchers or even self can go buy goat, lamb and do for yourself. Most satisfaction with food is found with your own picked out produced and slaughtered for your family only. a homemade meal made with your own hands is much more satisfying to husband and family than take out or restaurant foods. "most modern food isw Halal" This type of OP thinking and wording is IMO a little corrupt and can be misleading. if we as muslims give into little things we have control over ie ourselves and food consumption health, it is easy to see where thinking to lead to more and more selfish tendencies and ways of life. for instance we dont need to take care of or look after the poor in society. No need to volunteer time and effort for thier concern. this is what govt is for and this is why we pay taxes , i live in rich society its all been taken care of etc. and if you take a real look it seems that our children and families are gettring more and more impverished. Men dont have to be Men and be keepers of society because women are independant and dont need them for family and children. meanwhile 30 of our children in USa are impoverished. So where will the i can do, i dont need and so on thinking ends , and the wisdom of the Quran begins again? Or can it, Inshallah

[deemabrouk 0]

To me, what deemabrouk is saying seems to be at odds with that the_dip_sticks is saying. I am going to wait to see what the_dip_sticks response is, as I am not qualified to argue either way.

Well, if you're going to put it that way...no one on this forum is qualified to argue either way. And although I think that Adiel's husband makes a lot of good points, of course his opinions are just that...opinions.

yup you are right.. this is All opinions.. and we all are gonna do what we wanna do regardless

I am No scholar.. this is just simply my view on things

[bszoom42 0]

To me, what deemabrouk is saying seems to be at odds with that the_dip_sticks is saying. I am going to wait to see what the_dip_sticks response is, as I am not qualified to argue either way.

Well, if you're going to put it that way...no one on this forum is qualified to argue either way. And although I think that Adiel's husband makes a lot of good points, of course his opinions are just that...opinions.

I disagree. I can speak for my own lack of knowledge; and state that I am not qualified. But based on reading the opinions and the analysis of other posters, they definitely sound qualified to have this discussion.

[trailmix 77]

Hi,

thanks for the response. Actualy as far as pork goes yes its prohibited in Islam and Judaism, in Judaism because the old testement clearly states as does the Quran that it is unclean. It SHOULD also be prohoibited in christianity but the christians argue (it is infact an extremely weak argument with no basis) that pork is allowed because saint Paul had a dream that God made all animals clean.

Seventh Day Adventists do not eat pork for this reason, I'm not really joining in this conversation, just wanted to correct this incorrect statement.

[chiquita 0]

well MHO is---lots has been writen here on halal meat but only ONE person has given where it is writen in the holy QURAN.

yes everyone has an opinion, but the truth is what does the QURAN say. this is what must be used.

i disagree about the who Allah/God can and does speak to. can not the creator of everything speak to who he wants to??? who are we but mere humans to put a limit on the one who created us and all that there is?

chi