Judge: Same-sex couples can wed in Iowa

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Sheriff - out of curiosity. Why specifically is it that you find homosexuality 'wrong'?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

More specifically, the Sheriff appears unable to recognize a CIVIL RIGHTS issue facing him -- when it doesn't make his life personally more agreeable but challenges his (private) beliefs.

Marriage in the United States of America is a civil institution and confers a lot of civil rights. If our spouses -- heaven forbid -- get hit by a car, we have a legal right to be by the bedside. But my son, who cannot marry his sweet heart, experiences this as a privilege depending on just what ambulance the hospital takes his beloved to. Is this a proper disposition of rights by the State? It think not, and apparently the Sheriff disagrees.

If my wife and I (who are too old to have biological children) decide to adopt, and subsequently split up and she gets custody, I can reasonably be required to pay child support. My son, in the same predicament, is 100% on his own.

My wife will be able to collect my social security if I die before her, which is likely since women outlive men. My son will have no such civil benefit.

In the USA, marriage is a civil, not primarily a religious institution. But, to me, it is incredible that those who benefit from substantial advances in civil rights in the past 60 years are so fast to deny it to those that they consider different.

The Sheriff, and those like him, are, plain and simple, bigots whose views, were the nation to regain the enlighenment we achieved 50 years ago, would be shunned.

Well said.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Moreover, if he opposes equal legal rights (as opposed to marriage) I wonder which of those 'legal rights' he specifically objects to and why....

What's the reasoning behind denying a gay couple the ability to get joint health-insurance?

What is the reasoning behind denying a gay couple the right to joint tax exemption and joint property rights?

What is the reasoning behind granting a gay couple the right to next of kin status?

Edited September 2, 2007 by Number 6

[peejay 327]

It's depressing that it's so much easier to unite people against something than it is to unite them for something.

That's funny! I thought the point of your argument was to unite people. Hello!!!

It is. Just seems to be easier for people to unite against something that has no bearing whatsoever on their day to day life while ignoring the concept of simple fairness.

This is a circular conversation. It's more about morality than fairness. Life is not always fair or always moral. For now, you loose. To date, Americans, by in large, disapprove of such unions. We're some left wing ultra conservative backstabbing flip-flopping folks. However, we don't flip-flop with gay marriage. You have the right to support and defend under the umbrella of the law that which is dear to your heart. I applaud you (meaning everyone) for that because that is the essence of democracy under a truly free nation. You and everyone else is going to have a serious uphill climb trying to de-thrown us on this one.

I've gotta hit the gym...

Cheers!!!

Sheriff Uling

Going by the OP article - I'd say things are inching toward change. The fact that this keeps cropping up in various states suggests to me at least that the issue isn't going away. Inconvenient as that might be.

For the most part in lilly White, ultra-liberal, upper class venues on the left and right coasts...and on university campuses. Any surprises there?

Civil rights? When did the homophobes sick the dogs and the cops on homosexuals? Do you mean you can actually tell if someone is a homosexual by the way they look?

[smoke20 0]

i'm truley indifferent about same sex marriages.

on one hand i understand gays wanting the rights & privleges, we as heterosexuals have....tax breaks for being married, combining credit for large purchases, providing medical coverage for their partner, a living will-giving the authority do give a do not resuscitate order in case of medical condition.

on the other hand. i do not think homosexuals should be allowed to adopt & raise childern. simply because being raise in a home where an "alternative lifestyle"is being lived, could cause confusion to a child about the norm of relationships. let alone the amount of ridicule the child would be subjected to.(mainly by the kids in school & the neighborhood)

so in short: if an other man's hairy azz, or another woman's physical attributes turns you on...rock on! its your business not mine. but, don't subject an impressionable child to the alternative lifestyle you have choosen. that would be wrong.

has charlie brown posted any pics or vids yet?

edit: i can't spell

Edited September 2, 2007 by smoke20

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It's depressing that it's so much easier to unite people against something than it is to unite them for something.

That's funny! I thought the point of your argument was to unite people. Hello!!!

It is. Just seems to be easier for people to unite against something that has no bearing whatsoever on their day to day life while ignoring the concept of simple fairness.

This is a circular conversation. It's more about morality than fairness. Life is not always fair or always moral. For now, you loose. To date, Americans, by in large, disapprove of such unions. We're some left wing ultra conservative backstabbing flip-flopping folks. However, we don't flip-flop with gay marriage. You have the right to support and defend under the umbrella of the law that which is dear to your heart. I applaud you (meaning everyone) for that because that is the essence of democracy under a truly free nation. You and everyone else is going to have a serious uphill climb trying to de-thrown us on this one.

I've gotta hit the gym...

Cheers!!!

Sheriff Uling

Going by the OP article - I'd say things are inching toward change. The fact that this keeps cropping up in various states suggests to me at least that the issue isn't going away. Inconvenient as that might be.

For the most part in lilly White, ultra-liberal, upper class venues on the left and right coasts...and on university campuses. Any surprises there?

Civil rights? When did the homophobes sick the dogs and the cops on homosexuals? Do you mean you can actually tell if someone is a homosexual by the way they look?

Not sure where you pulled that one from... What do civil rights have to do with identifying homosexuals 'by sight'? Did anyone actually suggest this?

As I said:

What is the reasoning behind denying a gay couple the ability to get joint health-insurance?

What is the reasoning behind denying a gay couple the right to joint tax exemption and joint property rights?

What is the reasoning behind denying a gay couple the right to next of kin status?

I don't have an answer for these. Do you?

[mendeleev 68]

Most civil rights laws also prevent discrimination on the basis of natural origin.

I for one, can't tell the difference, by looking, between an Italian and a Brit. In this country, one of those nationalities used to be subject to more unjust discrimination than the other. We've made some progress since then ...

I also don't see what appearance has to do with the worthiness of benefiting from basic equality of civil rights ...

[smoke20 0]

What is the reasoning behind denying a gay couple the ability to get joint health-insurance?

What is the reasoning behind denying a gay couple the right to joint tax exemption and joint property rights?

What is the reasoning behind denying a gay couple the right to next of kin status?

I don't have an answer for these. Do you?

holy s**t, i am so ashamed. i agree w/ #6 about something.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Most civil rights laws also prevent discrimination on the basis of natural origin.

I for one, can't tell the difference, by looking, between an Italian and a Brit. In this country, one of those nationalities used to be subject to more unjust discrimination than the other. We've made some progress since then ...

I also don't see what appearance has to do with the worthiness of benefiting from basic equality of civil rights ...

Given peejay's continued ranting about illegal immigration - a person might be forgiven for thinking that he can identify illegal aliens by sight.

[mendeleev 68]

What is the reasoning behind denying a gay couple the ability to get joint health-insurance?

What is the reasoning behind denying a gay couple the right to joint tax exemption and joint property rights?

What is the reasoning behind denying a gay couple the right to next of kin status?

I don't have an answer for these. Do you?

holy s**t, i am so ashamed. i agree w/ #6 about something.

Smoke20 -- those are precisely a small group of the rights conferred on us when we marry -- that my son is denied! And (by the way) the "tul" in novotul is for "Tulsa" , which isn't exactly on the right or left coast!

[smoke20 0]

What is the reasoning behind denying a gay couple the ability to get joint health-insurance?

What is the reasoning behind denying a gay couple the right to joint tax exemption and joint property rights?

What is the reasoning behind denying a gay couple the right to next of kin status?

I don't have an answer for these. Do you?

holy s**t, i am so ashamed. i agree w/ #6 about something.

Smoke20 -- those are precisely a small group of the rights conferred on us when we marry -- that my son is denied! And (by the way) the "tul" in novotul is for "Tulsa" , which isn't exactly on the right or left coast!

huh? i missed something...i'm all for homosexuals being given the same basic rights & privledges as heterosexuals...except the right to adopt. what does Tulsa have to do w/ anything?

what did i miss?

[mendeleev 68]

What is the reasoning behind denying a gay couple the ability to get joint health-insurance?

What is the reasoning behind denying a gay couple the right to joint tax exemption and joint property rights?

What is the reasoning behind denying a gay couple the right to next of kin status?

I don't have an answer for these. Do you?

holy s**t, i am so ashamed. i agree w/ #6 about something.

Smoke20 -- those are precisely a small group of the rights conferred on us when we marry -- that my son is denied! And (by the way) the "tul" in novotul is for "Tulsa" , which isn't exactly on the right or left coast!

huh? i missed something...i'm all for homosexuals being given the same basic rights & privledges as heterosexuals...except the right to adopt. what does Tulsa have to do w/ anything?

what did i miss?

Sorry, smoke20, this time my bad:

[support for gay rights comes from,] For the most part in lilly White, ultra-liberal, upper class venues on the left and right coasts...and on university campuses. Any surprises there?

The "tul" in novotul comes from Tulsa -- voices from civil rights don't come only from the left and right coasts ... now if we could engage the issue rather than geographic stereotypes, we might make progress.

[Ban Hammer 13,619]

Most civil rights laws also prevent discrimination on the basis of natural origin.

I for one, can't tell the difference, by looking, between an Italian and a Brit. In this country, one of those nationalities used to be subject to more unjust discrimination than the other. We've made some progress since then ...

I also don't see what appearance has to do with the worthiness of benefiting from basic equality of civil rights ...

Given peejay's continued ranting about illegal immigration - a person might be forgiven for thinking that he can identify illegal aliens by sight.

so what's your thoughts on gay illlegal immigrants then?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Most civil rights laws also prevent discrimination on the basis of natural origin.

I for one, can't tell the difference, by looking, between an Italian and a Brit. In this country, one of those nationalities used to be subject to more unjust discrimination than the other. We've made some progress since then ...

I also don't see what appearance has to do with the worthiness of benefiting from basic equality of civil rights ...

Given peejay's continued ranting about illegal immigration - a person might be forgiven for thinking that he can identify illegal aliens by sight.

so what's your thoughts on gay illlegal immigrants then?

I can't identify them by sight.

[Sheriff Uling 3]

Going by the OP article - I'd say things are inching toward change. The fact that this keeps cropping up in various states suggests to me at least that the issue isn't going away. Inconvenient as that might be.

Being gay is not going to cease to exist becuase they are unable to marry. Therefore, I expect this to be an ongoing issue for sometime to come... Agreed!!!