Judge: Same-sex couples can wed in Iowa

[Sheriff Uling 3]

you both think its really funny do you. No one makes fun of my family VJ losers.

Nobody is attempting to make fun of your family. I wish that you would understand that and give it a rest...

[peejay 327]

The fact is that in recent years the state referendums that ban gay marriage have passed overwhelmingly in very diverse parts of the country. America is a conservative country with traditional values. Something the left and right coasts fail to want to recognize. Middle America isn't and never has been about San Francisco and Manhattan values.

These gay marriage movements are all about homosexuals demanding the State Seal of Approval from government and a public validation from society. It is an American society that does not see a compelling need to validate homosexuality. So seeing that homosexuals cannot force society at large to validate them, they shop for judges in favorable venues to do it for them.

That said, homosexuals for the most part can already accomplish what heterosexual couples that just "shack up" already do. There is a lot that can already be done through wills, powers of attorney, and other legal instruments that often do the same thing as being married.

[Jenn! 918]

The fact is that in recent years the state referendums that ban gay marriage have passed overwhelmingly in very diverse parts of the country. America is a conservative country with traditional values. Something the left and right coasts fail to want to recognize. Middle America isn't and never has been about San Francisco and Manhattan values.

Maybe it's time for a split.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I dunno. If I went out of my way just to insist I had nothing against black people, I just found them disgusting and unnatural and socially deviant and that I didn't hate them, I was just pro-white people, I think I'd rightly be called a racist.

It does seem rather ambiguous.

[Sheri&Carl 0]

I sincerely hope that my son, who I am convinced was gay from birth or at least from when he was very young, will be able to get married when he finds the right guy and be able to enjoy all the advantages, legal and social, or that institution.

And to the homophobe who insinuates that homosexuality may be a birth defect -- let me say that I have a bit of experience with that sort of thing.

My son is a fine, loving, extremely intelligent young man that I admire a lot. My daughter had hypoplastic left heart syndrome and died after open heart surgery when she was 20 days old. *THAT* is a birth defect. And it contributed in direct, proximate ways to the failure of my marriage. To suggest similarities between the two, especially if you have experienced neither, doesn't border on the obscene. It *IS* obscene.

Just to clear something up.. Was Sheriff talking to novotul when he said evdogg412?

[Caladan 19]

Yes, he was. He got the names mixed up so evdogg thinks he's being insulted.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The fact is that in recent years the state referendums that ban gay marriage have passed overwhelmingly in very diverse parts of the country. America is a conservative country with traditional values. Something the left and right coasts fail to want to recognize. Middle America isn't and never has been about San Francisco and Manhattan values.

These gay marriage movements are all about homosexuals demanding the State Seal of Approval from government and a public validation from society. It is an American society that does not see a compelling need to validate homosexuality. So seeing that homosexuals cannot force society at large to validate them, they shop for judges in favorable venues to do it for them.

That said, homosexuals for the most part can already accomplish what heterosexual couples that just "shack up" already do. There is a lot that can already be done through wills, powers of attorney, and other legal instruments that often do the same thing as being married.

Except immigrate to the US. Hardly the egalitarian ideal.

[Sheriff Uling 3]

I sincerely hope that my son, who I am convinced was gay from birth or at least from when he was very young, will be able to get married when he finds the right guy and be able to enjoy all the advantages, legal and social, or that institution.

And to the homophobe who insinuates that homosexuality may be a birth defect -- let me say that I have a bit of experience with that sort of thing.

My son is a fine, loving, extremely intelligent young man that I admire a lot. My daughter had hypoplastic left heart syndrome and died after open heart surgery when she was 20 days old. *THAT* is a birth defect. And it contributed in direct, proximate ways to the failure of my marriage. To suggest similarities between the two, especially if you have experienced neither, doesn't border on the obscene. It *IS* obscene.

Just to clear something up.. Was Sheriff talking to novotul when he said evdogg412?

Yes, he was. He got the names mixed up so evdogg thinks he's being insulted.

You are both correct, but I was so wrapped up in the momment with evdogg412 that I did not even notice that I made the mistake (obviously evdogg412 did not either). My reply was to novotul...

[Sheriff Uling 3]

The fact is that in recent years the state referendums that ban gay marriage have passed overwhelmingly in very diverse parts of the country. America is a conservative country with traditional values. Something the left and right coasts fail to want to recognize. Middle America isn't and never has been about San Francisco and Manhattan values.

These gay marriage movements are all about homosexuals demanding the State Seal of Approval from government and a public validation from society. It is an American society that does not see a compelling need to validate homosexuality. So seeing that homosexuals cannot force society at large to validate them, they shop for judges in favorable venues to do it for them.

That said, homosexuals for the most part can already accomplish what heterosexual couples that just "shack up" already do. There is a lot that can already be done through wills, powers of attorney, and other legal instruments that often do the same thing as being married.

You are very wise my friend and it is typically very refreshing to read your POV on things... Very good points...

[mendeleev 68]

I sincerely hope that my son, who I am convinced was gay from birth or at least from when he was very young, will be able to get married when he finds the right guy and be able to enjoy all the advantages, legal and social, or that institution.

And to the homophobe who insinuates that homosexuality may be a birth defect -- let me say that I have a bit of experience with that sort of thing.

My son is a fine, loving, extremely intelligent young man that I admire a lot. My daughter had hypoplastic left heart syndrome and died after open heart surgery when she was 20 days old. *THAT* is a birth defect. And it contributed in direct, proximate ways to the failure of my marriage. To suggest similarities between the two, especially if you have experienced neither, doesn't border on the obscene. It *IS* obscene.

novotul,

You are a wonderful mother - and I am sure your son will find the loving and caring parter he deserves. May he live in a society that recognises love in all its forms. As for your daughters passing away, I can only say I am really sorry. You are strong sister, and god has blessed you with many things. I'll keep you in my thoughts.

Best, L.

I'm the dad, lol

[mendeleev 68]

I sincerely hope that my son, who I am convinced was gay from birth or at least from when he was very young, will be able to get married when he finds the right guy and be able to enjoy all the advantages, legal and social, or that institution.

And to the homophobe who insinuates that homosexuality may be a birth defect -- let me say that I have a bit of experience with that sort of thing.

My son is a fine, loving, extremely intelligent young man that I admire a lot. My daughter had hypoplastic left heart syndrome and died after open heart surgery when she was 20 days old. *THAT* is a birth defect. And it contributed in direct, proximate ways to the failure of my marriage. To suggest similarities between the two, especially if you have experienced neither, doesn't border on the obscene. It *IS* obscene.

Just to clear something up.. Was Sheriff talking to novotul when he said evdogg412?

Yup ... the Sheriff wanted to shoot at me but can't aim straight.

This dad is very proud of his gay son, and hopes his son can someday marry in the USA.

I dunno. If I went out of my way just to insist I had nothing against black people, I just found them disgusting and unnatural and socially deviant and that I didn't hate them, I was just pro-white people, I think I'd rightly be called a racist.

By our laws, you have that right to do so as long as your actions cause no harm to other people financially, socially, and/or economically. Unfortunately, you have chosen to reference a part of American history where that is not the case and therefore diminishes the point you are trying to make IMO. I challenge you come up with another analogy or example. If you can...

Cheers!!!

Sheriff Uling

p.s. - It would also make me wonder if you chose that analogy because I am Black, but that is beside the point.

You're welcome to find whatever you want disgusting, that's true... but this is a thread about gay marriage, not about whether you find gays disgusting. How is denying someone the ability to marry legally (meaning they can't insure their spouse, or decide end-of-life issues or all the rights that you normally get by being married) not harming them?

I didn't know you were black (I don't check people's pics often), but hey, since it presents itself.... if I were to say that I had nothing against black people, I just didn't want them marrying outside their race because that was disgusting (laws that existed in the U.S. until not that long ago)... I don't think you'd think that I wasn't racist, even if I dressed it up in fancy language about purity.

This poster was struck by the irony of the Sheriff's bigotry because he knew the Sheriff was black, but apparently not at all tolerant. Bigotry goes way beyond race, but perhaps the Sheriff doesn't know enough German history to be aware of how that can play out. (Hint, what largest group, after jews and gypsies, to be exterminated?)

Edited September 1, 2007 by novotul

[Chica Yeyé 41]

I sincerely hope that my son, who I am convinced was gay from birth or at least from when he was very young, will be able to get married when he finds the right guy and be able to enjoy all the advantages, legal and social, or that institution.

And to the homophobe who insinuates that homosexuality may be a birth defect -- let me say that I have a bit of experience with that sort of thing.

My son is a fine, loving, extremely intelligent young man that I admire a lot. My daughter had hypoplastic left heart syndrome and died after open heart surgery when she was 20 days old. *THAT* is a birth defect. And it contributed in direct, proximate ways to the failure of my marriage. To suggest similarities between the two, especially if you have experienced neither, doesn't border on the obscene. It *IS* obscene.

novotul,

You are a wonderful mother - and I am sure your son will find the loving and caring parter he deserves. May he live in a society that recognises love in all its forms. As for your daughters passing away, I can only say I am really sorry. You are strong sister, and god has blessed you with many things. I'll keep you in my thoughts.

Best, L.

I'm the dad, lol

Sorry.... - you're a heck of a dad then

[mendeleev 68]

I sincerely hope that my son, who I am convinced was gay from birth or at least from when he was very young, will be able to get married when he finds the right guy and be able to enjoy all the advantages, legal and social, or that institution.

And to the homophobe who insinuates that homosexuality may be a birth defect -- let me say that I have a bit of experience with that sort of thing.

My son is a fine, loving, extremely intelligent young man that I admire a lot. My daughter had hypoplastic left heart syndrome and died after open heart surgery when she was 20 days old. *THAT* is a birth defect. And it contributed in direct, proximate ways to the failure of my marriage. To suggest similarities between the two, especially if you have experienced neither, doesn't border on the obscene. It *IS* obscene.

novotul,

You are a wonderful mother - and I am sure your son will find the loving and caring parter he deserves. May he live in a society that recognises love in all its forms. As for your daughters passing away, I can only say I am really sorry. You are strong sister, and god has blessed you with many things. I'll keep you in my thoughts.

Best, L.

I'm the dad, lol

Sorry.... - you're a heck of a dad then

Not a problem!

[Chica Yeyé 41]

The fact is that in recent years the state referendums that ban gay marriage have passed overwhelmingly in very diverse parts of the country. America is a conservative country with traditional values. Something the left and right coasts fail to want to recognize. Middle America isn't and never has been about San Francisco and Manhattan values.

These gay marriage movements are all about homosexuals demanding the State Seal of Approval from government and a public validation from society. It is an American society that does not see a compelling need to validate homosexuality. So seeing that homosexuals cannot force society at large to validate them, they shop for judges in favorable venues to do it for them.

That said, homosexuals for the most part can already accomplish what heterosexual couples that just "shack up" already do. There is a lot that can already be done through wills, powers of attorney, and other legal instruments that often do the same thing as being married.

Except immigrate to the US. Hardly the egalitarian ideal.

Excellent point you raise Number6. Was thinking about that just this week - if you are in a long-time (married or not) gay relationship, you cannot be sponsored by your partner to immigrate to the US. So to you for bringing the topic back to immigration issues, Sir

Peace, L.

[peejay 327]

The fact is that in recent years the state referendums that ban gay marriage have passed overwhelmingly in very diverse parts of the country. America is a conservative country with traditional values. Something the left and right coasts fail to want to recognize. Middle America isn't and never has been about San Francisco and Manhattan values.

These gay marriage movements are all about homosexuals demanding the State Seal of Approval from government and a public validation from society. It is an American society that does not see a compelling need to validate homosexuality. So seeing that homosexuals cannot force society at large to validate them, they shop for judges in favorable venues to do it for them.

That said, homosexuals for the most part can already accomplish what heterosexual couples that just "shack up" already do. There is a lot that can already be done through wills, powers of attorney, and other legal instruments that often do the same thing as being married.

Except immigrate to the US. Hardly the egalitarian ideal.

Is there a compelling societal need to import homosexuals solely on the basis that they wish to be with an American homosexual?

Even heteros don't have a "right" to a foreign spouse, but there are provisions in US law that presently allows it if certain qualifications are met. Just because a foreigner marries an American hetero is no guarantee they will be allowed to enter the USA or legally reside here. You went through the process...you know that.

Homosexuality in and of itself does not bar anyone from immigrating to the US for other reasons. The majority consensus of American society doesn't see a compelling need to validate homosexuality. It's not against the law to be a homosexual or to commit homosexual acts between consenting adults.

As I said earlier...it's all about validation and the State Seal of Approval. That is the reason these folks push these special "hate crimes" laws that fly in the face of their whining about equality. So...what does that tell you when there are laws passed that give the murders of homosexuals more severe punishments than the murders of everyone else in society? That is so lame! It's all about state validation of homosexuality.

A vast majority of Americans recognize that they have brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, children, etc. that are gay and lesbian. Most Americans wish them no harm or ill treatment. However, most feel there is no compelling need to validate homosexuality or a need for homosexual marriage.

Americans don't see a compelling need for polygamy either. Is that the next cause celebre' of the Left? Muslims can't petition US-CIS for their 4 fiancees.