Deal reached on immigration

[pedroh 21]

how do u know they dont pay tax? if they have a fake SS.. they pay taxes, they never get'em back.. lol

anyway.. I'm not a citizen, so I really can't tell the politicians what to do.. but, if the US citizens from VJ want to complain, go ahead, its your right.. if you're an immigrant? #######, gimme a break.. the only think that separates an immigrant from a mojado is the illegal status, and the common thing, we really don't have an opinion yet.. yes.. we can't tell a foreign govt how to do stuff.. remember, we're not citizens yet.. so.. enough with this exaggeration.. other than that.. US citizens..exercise your rights..

[iceyspots 0]

So what are they planning to do with the illegals that don't return back to their homeland? Make it a felony? Deport them?

I think if the government enforces this, they should at least have an organized way to handle the removal of those who wish not to comply.

Raid jobsites of workers. If an illegal breaks the law, bring them down to the station, detain them, and if it is concluded that they are not legal, send them back home.

[pedroh 21]

well.. fortunately the citizenship requirements are the same as for the 'legals'.. over 5 years, no tax debts, and speak english! that is gonna be a good filter lol.. i know some dudes that have been over 10 years and no ingles at all.. what a shame..

sigh and now the latinos are gonna do their stupid may the 1st 'a day without latinos'.. sigh.. they should be workin, not huevoneando with stupid protests... i dont like these own generalizations.. but unfortunately, for the mexican media the illegals mean latino immigrants.. so they mess up people thinking the reforms are against all latinos, which isn't true..

but again.. i dont see the solution with this deal.. who's gonna pay for all those deportations.. what about the people from central america? are they gonna kick them in mexico? lol.. not even we want them.. har har..

[Fischkoepfin 1]

I understand your anger, and I share it in a certain way. But I think that we would do much better pointing to the failures of the legal immigration process than complaining about illegal immigration. I mean after all there are around 20-30 Million legal immigrants in the US and all of the had to go through USCIS and are still administrated by USCIS.

Why on earth can 11 million illegals organize huge demonstrations pointing to their hardship but we can't do anything but write letters if it doesn't go fast enough because of some service center mess-up or we're placed on AR? Why don't we organize too and point out what truly bugs us, namely that we as spouses and fiances of US citizens are put into endless lines, endure yearlong separation, and so on because of an understaffed federal agency and immigration bills that keep focusing on enforcement and the rights of illegals.

Our problem is that we're being ignored because we don't make enough noise. If I would get paid $5 for every time someone has asked me why I had to wait for a visa because didn't marrying a USC automatically grant me citizenship, I would be a rich woman. And people keep forgetting asking the same stupid question over and over. And I'm sure there are similar stereostypes in place when it comes to other classes of legal immigrants, we just need to connect. And which politician can afford to argue with 30,000,000 potential voters???

Honestly, if we ever want action taken on our behalf, we need to follow those illegals and take to the streets as well. And rather than protesting against them, we should bring up our own issues with immigration; after all we're all pro-immigration and we're all pro-immigration reform, but only if it also addresses the problems of those who do things legally.

Edited April 7, 2006 by Fischkoepfin

[kaydee457 13]

This has been an interesting read. It's interesting to read how hypocritical most of you regulars are.....The indignation that most of you put forth in his thread is quite amusing, in a dark way. Just when I thought I knew most of you I find I don't!

First you guys want to get tough on immigration, particularly illegals, however when a measure is proposed that is tough you all whine that it isn't tough enough! Jeesh!

This thread, as i predicted, morphed into a thread about us; the people traversing immigration to the U.S. legally and how hard it is on us..... Just another VJ whining bitc*h session.

Well, nobody is asking us to pay back taxes, to leave the country for "a short time" and then re-enter and I'm sure that the hoops these illegals would need to jump through to acquire a green card would make our plight seem like a trip to Disneyland.

Where's the whining liberals in this crowd? How come you're not arguing the plight of the poor shmuck illegal whose been here for, oh say ten years, and has a wife, possibly two or three kids in school?

In all this time he's managed to support his family by cutting your grass, cleaning yourbasement, washing pots and pans at your local restaurant and generally getting by.

Does anyone here suggest that we, as the people of the U.S., uproot he and his family and send them packing? I hear no voices speaking to the human aspects and issues involved.

What this whole bitc*h session in this thread neglects is an argument reflecting the practical issues of illegals and the fact that their children may be U.S. citizens by virtue of birth.

I think this bill is a good start. It's certainly tough enough on those that have been here illegally 5 years or more and granted it's not perfect but it's a good beginning.

To take this hysterical approach of just making them all felons is certainly impractical, as well as un-american.

We just don't treat people that way in this country, period.

Now, as we all know very few illegals will actually take advantage of this opportunity. This is not the first time that government passed an unenforceable law. But one needs to start someplace and this is a good measure to at least allow those that want to make amends do so.

There clearly needs to be some fine tuning in the future to make this a viable immigration policy.

Now, having read this entire thread I haven't heard anyone come to the table with a suggestion as how to approach the issue sensibly and humanely.

Anyone have a viable alternative?

Edited April 7, 2006 by kaydee457

[charmac7 4]

This has been an interesting read. It's interesting to read how hypocritical most of you regulars are.....The indignation that most of you put forth in his thread is quite amusing, in a dark way. Just when I thought I knew most of you I find I don't!

kind of the pot calling the kettle black here isn't it, I think it is extremely hypocritical of people to stand behind a government and cheer on everything they do just because they happen to be of a particular party

First you guys want to get tough on immigration, particularly illegals, however when a measure is proposed that is tough you all whine that it isn't tough enough! Jeesh!

Being given the opportunity to stay in the country and/or leave without consequences with the opportunity to return without consequences hardly seems tough at all, looks like a nice little slap on the damn wrist to me

This thread, as i predicted, morphed into a thread about us; the people traversing immigration to the U.S. legally and how hard it is on us..... Just another VJ whining bitc*h session.

Well, nobody is asking us to pay back taxes, to leave the country for "a short time" and then re-enter and I'm sure that the hoops these illegals would need to jump through to acquire a green card would make our plight seem like a trip to Disneyland.

Nobody is asking us to pay back taxes maybe because we DON'T owe any, and let me tell you if you think for one damn minute that Shona, Girona, myself and thousands of others have not jumped through hoops and continue to do so was a trip to Disneyland then you are living a damn fantasy world.

Where's the whining liberals in this crowd? How come you're not arguing the plight of the poor shmuck illegal whose been here for, oh say ten years, and has a wife, possibly two or three kids in school?

In all this time he's managed to support his family by cutting your grass, cleaning yourbasement, washing pots and pans at your local restaurant and generally getting by.

it is time someone stood up and said TOO DAMN BAD for this shmuck, he knew what he was facing when he entered the country illegally, and he still came.....so let him live with the consequences of those actions...... give me one good reason why he should get a slap on the wrist and people who have tried to legal way.....spent thousands of dollars and still are jumping through the endless hoops...why are his rights more important than my USC husband who has been paying taxes for years

Does anyone here suggest that we, as the people of the U.S., uproot he and his family and send them packing? I hear no voices speaking to the human aspects and issues involved.

I also don't hear any voices in power speaking about the human aspects of the thousands trying to enter legally, the only voices that speak on our behalf are the people who have been through the system...oh but then we are bitching

What this whole bitc*h session in this thread neglects is an argument reflecting the practical issues of illegals and the fact that their children may be U.S. citizens by virtue of birth.

I think this bill is a good start. It's certainly tough enough on those that have been here illegally 5 years or more and granted it's not perfect but it's a good beginning.

To take this hysterical approach of just making them all felons is certainly impractical, as well as un-american.

We just don't treat people that way in this country, period.

Excuse me the way this country has treated me and others borders on the line of criminal and to add insult to injury we paid them for this "service"

Now, as we all know very few illegals will actually take advantage of this opportunity. This is not the first time that government passed an unenforceable law. But one needs to start someplace and this is a good measure to at least allow those that want to make amends do so.

You are very correct very few will take advantage.....so it seems like an exercise in futility to me, and a total waste of time, effort and money...and if they really want to start someplace....then start with the employers that hire the illegals crack down hard on them. offer a guest worker program for the migrant farm worker and such.

There clearly needs to be some fine tuning in the future to make this a viable immigration policy.

Now, having read this entire thread I haven't heard anyone come to the table with a suggestion as how to approach the issue sensibly and humanely.

Anyone have a viable alternative?

I would love to hear your viable alternative, obviously there is no easy answer here.....but history repeats itself over and over....and do you know how many illegals that have been waiting for this policy...or amnesty.....how many message boards there are on this issue ......how many illegals who are going through the visa process being told....don't let you illegal husand/wife/fiancee leave the US - postpone your interview until this bill is passed.

Perhaps you have had an easy ride on the Immigration Highway, those of us who have not have and NO ONE is even willing to even listen to us....let alone speak on our behalf. I feel alot of us have earned the right to ######. when we see people who quite willingly broke the law get handed an easy way out

Char

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Where's the whining liberals in this crowd? How come you're not arguing the plight of the poor shmuck illegal whose been here for, oh say ten years, and has a wife, possibly two or three kids in school?

See, kaydee, that is what distinguishes those that you view as whining liberals from folks like yourself. The whining liberals are actually able to view an issue and think about it and then form an opinion on it. They're sort of unpredictable that way. You, on the other hand, are very predictable as you seem to prefer to blindly hump Bush's leg on any issue whatsoever.

Edited April 7, 2006 by ET-US2004

[Ladylethal 12]

Like I said, I share a pity for illegals as well as get angry that people will leave their countries illegaly to search the american dreams.

These people must stop thinking US is perfect and it will solve all your problems, ´cus it won´t. US has problems, unemployment, etc. It´s better than 3rd world countries? Yeah, sure. But is it worth leaving your country to be illegal in US? Hell no!

In Brasil we have SO much. If you move into the countryside there are so many farms, small industries needing people to work, but not, people leave the countryside, pack themselves up in the horrible Rio´s favelas or São Paulo, then they find out life isn´t plain beauty there, and instead of returning to the countryside, where life quality increases, job offers increase, etc, they decide to hire a coyote to either get them killed in the desert trying to cross into US, or get in and have to live a life of illegality.

Just plain ridiculous.

[Girona40 0]

Kaydee, I understand what you are saying, but you are wrong in several comments you make in your post. I don't think people who have commented on this subject are being hypocritical at all. If you read some of their timelines and what they have been through, so far, with USCIS you may understand why they don't agree with anyone being given amnesty for breaking the law, when they have abided by them and been treated so badly. Nobody has a problem with immigration being tough, but what we all want is for it to be fair.

The board hasn't "morphed" into anything. This board is about us - people going through the journey of immigration, visa applications, interviews, fees, petitions, treatment by the USCIS, denials, approvals, etc. - and we are merely commenting on how this effects us, or how we feel about it.

"Well, nobody is asking us to pay back taxes, to leave the country for "a short time" and then re-enter and I'm sure that the hoops these illegals would need to jump through to acquire a green card would make our plight seem like a trip to Disneyland."

You are right there - nobody is asking me to pay back taxes - I have paid them on time since I got here and we have had to pay nearly $60,000 when recently filing our taxes, because we had to cash in various things to pay the attorney's fees to fight the injustice we are suffering at the hands of the USCIS. No, they are not asking us to leave for a "short time" - they are telling us that they want to deport my son, permanently, when he has broken no law!

We have been "jumping through hoops" for FOUR YEARS now to get a Green Card for my son, by taking the legal route and it certainly hasn't been Disneyland for us!!

"To take this hysterical approach of just making them all felons is certainly impractical, as well as un-american.

We just don't treat people that way in this country, period."

It is impractical to make them all felons - IMO they should be returned to their homeland and whoever is employing them should be punished. Don't fool yourself that Americans' don't treat people that way - America has led me to believe I am legally entitled to be here with my family. Then they tell me that my son is to be torn from this family and returned to his homeland - a place where he has nothing now, because I have invested every penny I had in this country. Thanks to what the USCIS is doing to this family, my son would have nothing, no home, no job, no family, nothing at all if he were to be returned. This wasn't something we did, or chose to do, it was something the US Government did to us, by misleading us, by telling us that if we paid this fee, if we filed this form, if we attended this interview, we were entitled to remain here. Then, in the next breath, they tell us "Just kidding! You aren't allowed to stay after all and have to go home with nothing!"

I don't feel sorry for people that come here illegally. My sympathies lie with those that do it legally and still get treated like this.

This Bill is a joke and will not solve anything. They need to invest more money in ICE and DHD in order to enforce the laws that stand at the moment and employ more caseworkers within the USCIS to deal with the horrendous backlogs of legal applications. I think fines should be imposed on employers of illegal immigrants and that money should go towards returning them to their home countries.

In the meantime I have to continue to fight for the rights of this family, and my USC husband to keep his family together in his home country. If they deport my son my husband has no choice but to leave the country of his birth to keep his family together. Now, you go figure why I have no sympathy for people that break the law, continually, and get a break like this from the US Government.

[rebeccajo 14]

but again.. i dont see the solution with this deal..

Pedro, at least from my point of view, that's what most of the people on this thread don't like. It's not a real solution as it is virtually unenforceable.

[tsunamihart 0]

Where's the whining liberals in this crowd? How come you're not arguing the plight of the poor shmuck illegal whose been here for, oh say ten years, and has a wife, possibly two or three kids in school?

See, kaydee, that is what distinguishes those that you view as whining liberals from folks like yourself. The whining liberals are actually able to view an issue and think about it and then form an opinion on it. They're sort of unpredictable that way. You, on the other hand, are very predictable as you seem to prefer to blindly hump Bush's leg on any issue whatsoever.

Oh my Geeyawd ET I almost fell out of my desk chair when I read your response...

and I'm sorry Kaydee but us poor trash have to cut our own grass and do our own dishes and clean our own basements (when we have a basement) so go bark up some other tree because that dog don't hunt in these woods any more go get some help, a "humping dog on Bushs' leg", that's just too funny, I wonder which one is getting the pleasure?

[pax 0]

The current proposal is, in fact, almost completely unenforceable. If current undocumented aliens can produce fake Social Security cards and green cards, they can surely manage to produce proof that they have been in the country for five years, whether the proof is real or not.

I don't think anyone here really wants to see undocumented aliens rounded up, thrown in prisons, and deported ASAP. Well, maybe a few people do, but they're surely a minority. Very little can be done about aliens already here, and it will be far better for America in the long run to realize that the problems we have are likely to be with us for generations. There is no Band-Aid solution to the problem of illegal immigrants, of all origins, who are already are, and a path to legality for SOME of the undocumented, while it does in some sense amount to the a-word, will be better for those undocumented and for American labor in the years to come. So we have to admit that some folks who did break the law will in a sense be "rewarded," which is why any path to legalization must be afforded only to undocumented aliens with clean records and work histories, with strong preference given to aliens with strong family and community ties. If we give out any kind of amnesty, we are not obligated to extend it to all.

And once we've begun paper trails and oversight on these formerly illegal, enforcement has to start. There should be a limited--VERY limited--visa program for foreign nationals seeking unskilled or low-skilled labor, similar to the current visa lottery. There should be stiff penalties for employers who knowingly and purposely hire illegal aliens to flout labor laws. And we need much stronger border control--call it whatever you want and implement it however is necessary, but if legal options exist for existing illegals in the States and for foreign nationals hoping to come here to seek legitimate work, then sneaking over the border must become a thing of the past. It must be an unprofitable thing, in the end, for businesses to hire illegal labor, because that's why there's been no real action on this issue and why there probably won't be, even now--big business makes big money on the backs of illegals.

And USCIS, CBP, and ICE must be staffed and funded to handle all these new policies.

Now, everyone here who knows how these things work, have a big chuckle with me.

[Lovetoteach 53]

Kaydee, I understand what you are saying, but you are wrong in several comments you make in your post. I don't think people who have commented on this subject are being hypocritical at all. If you read some of their timelines and what they have been through, so far, with USCIS you may understand why they don't agree with anyone being given amnesty for breaking the law, when they have abided by them and been treated so badly. Nobody has a problem with immigration being tough, but what we all want is for it to be fair.

The board hasn't "morphed" into anything. This board is about us - people going through the journey of immigration, visa applications, interviews, fees, petitions, treatment by the USCIS, denials, approvals, etc. - and we are merely commenting on how this effects us, or how we feel about it.

"Well, nobody is asking us to pay back taxes, to leave the country for "a short time" and then re-enter and I'm sure that the hoops these illegals would need to jump through to acquire a green card would make our plight seem like a trip to Disneyland."

You are right there - nobody is asking me to pay back taxes - I have paid them on time since I got here and we have had to pay nearly $60,000 when recently filing our taxes, because we had to cash in various things to pay the attorney's fees to fight the injustice we are suffering at the hands of the USCIS. No, they are not asking us to leave for a "short time" - they are telling us that they want to deport my son, permanently, when he has broken no law!

We have been "jumping through hoops" for FOUR YEARS now to get a Green Card for my son, by taking the legal route and it certainly hasn't been Disneyland for us!!

"To take this hysterical approach of just making them all felons is certainly impractical, as well as un-american.

We just don't treat people that way in this country, period."

It is impractical to make them all felons - IMO they should be returned to their homeland and whoever is employing them should be punished. Don't fool yourself that Americans' don't treat people that way - America has led me to believe I am legally entitled to be here with my family. Then they tell me that my son is to be torn from this family and returned to his homeland - a place where he has nothing now, because I have invested every penny I had in this country. Thanks to what the USCIS is doing to this family, my son would have nothing, no home, no job, no family, nothing at all if he were to be returned. This wasn't something we did, or chose to do, it was something the US Government did to us, by misleading us, by telling us that if we paid this fee, if we filed this form, if we attended this interview, we were entitled to remain here. Then, in the next breath, they tell us "Just kidding! You aren't allowed to stay after all and have to go home with nothing!"

I don't feel sorry for people that come here illegally. My sympathies lie with those that do it legally and still get treated like this.

This Bill is a joke and will not solve anything. They need to invest more money in ICE and DHD in order to enforce the laws that stand at the moment and employ more caseworkers within the USCIS to deal with the horrendous backlogs of legal applications. I think fines should be imposed on employers of illegal immigrants and that money should go towards returning them to their home countries.

In the meantime I have to continue to fight for the rights of this family, and my USC husband to keep his family together in his home country. If they deport my son my husband has no choice but to leave the country of his birth to keep his family together. Now, you go figure why I have no sympathy for people that break the law, continually, and get a break like this from the US Government.

Girona, just like you I paid my taxes when I was allowed to work including medicare which I can't use because of a law in 1996 stating I have to be a qualified alien for 5 years. Due to my prima facie determination I am a qualified alien but it's a useless piece of paper. Coming from England I'm obviously fluent in the language. I live off the sale proceeds of my own property and possessions. I've also spent over $10,000 on divorce and attorney fees so far just to do everything the legal way. And at the end of the day I don't even know if I'll get an approval and be able to stay.

Isn't it enough to have to go through councelling because of PTSD, anxiety and depression because of the trauma both my son and myself endured, let alone the highly complex immigration process. I try to stay positive, but this the most difficult and stressful period I've ever had to live through.

It isn't fair that people like us with a concience, trying to do everything they can legally, have to go through this whilst others get a seemingly easy ride. It's just wrong.

Shona

Edited April 7, 2006 by shona

[AlmostMex 0]

Rebecca, they are because there is no Visa option available. I know of one who came over on a Visitor Visa. He was very fortunate to get that Visa-it's not easy. You need assets, property, bank accounts-3 things a lot of Mexicans don't have. Aside from that, there was no "go to work for a couple years to make money and go home" Visa. So no matter what, there were no legal options. I'm telling you, some of these guys will put off going home to see sick parents, wives, growing children for years for fear of not being able to get back in and make the money.

Do you even read what you post? Crazyness.

Guess why it's so hard for *my* Mexican friends to get a visa for a genuine visit? Could it be because so many of *your* friends have totally violated the terms of their visitor's visa? And you'd like me to feel bad about missing mama because they won't be able to sneak in again?

Mexico is not totally bankrupt; I have lived in much poorer places. Might not be able to make the same as they do in the US, but we all make choices about what's imporant in life.

My husband has cousins who've been in the States illegally and couldn't go home to visit their parents or spouses for years on end for fear of not getting back into the States. But you know what, they chose that life for themselves. You can say that they came here because they couldn't feed their families, etc. Is it true for a good portion of the people, yes, definitely. It probably used to be a lot higher percentage of illegal immigrants than it is now. But as it stands today, I'd say there are a LOT of Mexicans who come to the States simply because it's easier to earn dollars, not truly out of not being able to feed their families. Do I feel for all of them? Yes, but that doesn't mean the US needs to be the outlet for Mexico's failure to provide better-paying jobs for Mexicans. Mexico has money, it's just in a small percentage of the people's hands- talk to President Fox and all of the rich politicians and other families living in Bosques de Chapultepec in Mexico City and similar neighborhoods. And a lot of them got it through corruption and stealing the money from their less-fortunate citizens. Mexico's government HAS to look at their corruption and fix that and work hard to create more fairly-paid jobs for its people.

[Yaads 0]

Breaking News on Immigration Bill

WASHINGTON - The Senate sidetracked sweeping immigration legislation Friday, leaving in doubt prospects for passing a bill offering the hope of citizenship to millions of men, women and children living in the United States illegally.

A carefully crafted compromise that supporters had claimed could win an overwhelming majority received only 38 of the 60 votes necessary to protect it from weakening amendments by opponents.

Republicans were united in the 38-60 vote but Democrats, who have insisted on no amendments, lost six votes from their members.

The Senate action complicates and could ultimately doom efforts to pass a comprehensive reform this election year.

Just one day earlier, President Bush had applauded the Senate’s efforts to draft a comprehensive immigration bill. “I would encourage the members to work hard to get the bill done prior to the upcoming break,” he said Thursday.....

(Continued in link above)

Edited April 7, 2006 by Jme3584