Free lunches at school

[KarenCee 3]

'forced' to was in quotes because we are, as a society, obliged to follow the rules that society has deemed fit to impose. One of those 'rules' is that poverty will not be used as a yard stick by which we judge how people run their lives.

kinda like society being forced to pay for this "free lunch program" too.

No one's forcing you...you don't have to live here.

[Heracles 417]

They should be 'forced' to pay for their choices because in a democracy we do have not, do not and will not judge people by the choices that they make, however misguided these 'choices' may be, when it comes to deciding who recieves welfare and who doesn't.

You may try to change this, but it's unlikely that you will find a main stream politician who will support this kind of issue. What it boils down to is that there is no power to dictate who should have children and how they should have them and poverty is not sufficient reason to deny people the right to make these choices.

As for the 'whenever something is free it's bound to be abused aside, you may be right, but again, the abuses of the system are not sufficient to warrent abandoning the system.

I think your missing the point of the initial post. I for one am sick of people taking advantage of everyone else, just because they are doing it touch. Or everyone else being forced to pay for someone's decision. Be it having kids they cannot afford, abandoning kids, neglecting kids, abusing drugs etc..

There is a fine line between giving someone a fair go to someone simply abusing the system and taking no responsibility of their own. Hence my example of someone have 3 or 4 kids with different fathers. Where grandmas and others are taking care of people's kids while they ###### around. Some of you guys deny that and pretend everyone poor is simply working hard and doing it tough. Which is not reality..

E.G. Mother Pleads Guilty To Leaving Children In Filth

Edited August 27, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

and your solution is to ban the programme rather than try to educate?

Makes perfect sense...

Educating parents to feed their kids? #######. Great a "new program" How to feed your kids, Totally absurd. Very typical response from someoneone who is driven only by emotion.

Driven by emotion!? :lol: :lol:

What are you driven by Marc? Take a look back at your posts in this thread.... You'll find far more 'emotion' there than in the post you highlighted above.

I should have been clearer I guess. Decisions should not be made based on emotions.

Ok - but then what is your basis for wanting this program to be scrapped? Based on what you've said so far it sure isn't based on anything specific or factual. Making a decision based solely on rhetoric is about emotion, not logic.

My basis for (scrapping) a fine bit of rhetoric that word, would'nt you say? I prefer the words not needed! When a person some how can find the means to pay for their kids food when school is not in session and then when school starts they some how have no means to pay, is utter non-sense.

I can cook a better meal than any school can. And I do make my boys lunches when I have them on school nights. It's a known fact that 80 to 90% of all fruit and veggies in a typical school lunch goes in the garbage. I see alot of sympathy for the kids which is fine, never is there follow up comments on the responsibility of the parents.

Thank goodness some of you werent around when this country was in its infancy. My mom was raised in an orchard during the depression, her story alone is enough for me to understand where I dont want to be.

Now go have your FREE lunch. After all you DESERVE it. Right!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

what about if you can afford the kids when you have them but then somewhere down the line life happens and you might not be able to afford the kids??...

Without having any stats available, I'd hazard a guess that this scenario doesn't apply to a rather significantly portion of welfare recipients.

[almaty 19]

some places...this is the kids main meal...i, personally, had kids as clients who ate once a day....at school....single parent family..and the family was barely making it

[Peikko 1,575]

I'm not losing any sleep over the people who abuse the system. Anyone who is on welfare is not someone to be envied or for that matter despised. They are not in a privelaged position and the miniscule amount of tax that goes on supporting these people is not going to somehow make me significantly better off if I was to be able to keep it.

There are solutions to these problems, but removing useful benefits, especially those that benefit children, is not the way forward in my opinion.

[natty bumppo 297]

Public health departments offer services to the disadvantaged as well. But ya know, birth control isn't 100% as Marilyn pointed out. Then what...make her have an abortion against her will 'cause she's too poor to be havin' babies? This point can be (and probably will be) debated on and on and on and on.... just as this "discussion" that Marc decided to start will go on and on and on and on and on.....

kinda like the energizer bunny...

If there are lots of excuses to not use BC with no attempt to obtain BC .. or if someone purely relies on the "Amtrack" method ... then can the person truthfully state that they have done their best to prevent another child for the gov't to feed?

Sure "accidents" and statistics happen. But if someone doesn't do whatever is possible to prevent this from happening while on the public nickel ... the question becomes ... is this another person looking for another "mothers day cheque" ?

That said ... yes I know jobs and life happen to good people requiring them to ask for help. Been there done that ... have the t-shirt. It's those that abuse the system that get me riled ... that and the lack of accountability that permits people to abuse the system.

[rebeccajo 14]

what about if you can afford the kids when you have them but then somewhere down the line life happens and you might not be able to afford the kids??...

Without having any stats available, I'd hazard a guess that this scenario doesn't apply to a rather significantly portion of welfare recipients.

Free or reduced lunch recipient does not necessarily equal welfare recipient.

Two different kettle of fish.

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

'forced' to was in quotes because we are, as a society, obliged to follow the rules that society has deemed fit to impose. One of those 'rules' is that poverty will not be used as a yard stick by which we judge how people run their lives.

kinda like society being forced to pay for this "free lunch program" too.

No one's forcing you...you don't have to live here.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

There is a fine line between giving someone a fair go to someone simply abusing the system and taking no responsibility of their own. Hence my example of someone have 3 or 4 kids with different fathers. Where grandmas and others are taking care of people's kids while they ###### around. Some of you guys deny that and pretend everyone poor is simply working hard and doing it tough. Which is not reality..

I don't think anyone 'pretends' - I think the problem is in making assumptions about people's behaviour - that just because you're not poor that you therefore know enough to lecture others on what they're doing wrong.

And now that I think about it - your example of the "3 or 4 kids with different fathers" is rather more extreme than the one about people falling on hard times. Its not inconceivable that a parent might lose their job and have to make cutbacks to their household expenditure - including having the kids eat cut-price / free school meals.

Whether the program is a good one on its 'own merits' is rather different from judging it by the types of people you think take advantage of it.

Edited August 27, 2007 by Number 6

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

I don't want to call you a liar.....BUT do you know what WIC is? I have a hard time believing someone asked if they could pay for nails with WIC. WIC recipients get a check, on that check it is printed 1 Gallon of Milk, eggs, and cheese or something of the sort. Only the person with the folder can use the check and only in places where the Government has approved it. I kept my mouth shut but since you KEEP repeating it.. IF you make something up to make people look bad, please make it plausible..Like she used food stamps, or offered you her child or something.

You don't wanna call me a liar BUT you will, eh? I keep repeating it cos it was THAT OUTRAGEOUS.

Yeah, lemme lie about my experiences

Believe me or not, S&C, but I'd think twice really before publicly calling someone a liar. Bit low form if you ask me.

She's right though - WIC specifically states a grocery item and a specific quantity. It can only be exchanged for specific foods.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

and your solution is to ban the programme rather than try to educate?

Makes perfect sense...

Educating parents to feed their kids? #######. Great a "new program" How to feed your kids, Totally absurd. Very typical response from someoneone who is driven only by emotion.

Driven by emotion!? :lol: :lol:

What are you driven by Marc? Take a look back at your posts in this thread.... You'll find far more 'emotion' there than in the post you highlighted above.

I should have been clearer I guess. Decisions should not be made based on emotions.

Ok - but then what is your basis for wanting this program to be scrapped? Based on what you've said so far it sure isn't based on anything specific or factual. Making a decision based solely on rhetoric is about emotion, not logic.

My basis for (scrapping) a fine bit of rhetoric that word, would'nt you say? I prefer the words not needed! When a person some how can find the means to pay for their kids food when school is not in session and then when school starts they some how have no means to pay, is utter non-sense.

I can cook a better meal than any school can. And I do make my boys lunches when I have them on school nights. It's a known fact that 80 to 90% of all fruit and veggies in a typical school lunch goes in the garbage. I see alot of sympathy for the kids which is fine, never is there follow up comments on the responsibility of the parents.

Thank goodness some of you werent around when this country was in its infancy. My mom was raised in an orchard during the depression, her story alone is enough for me to understand where I dont want to be.

Now go have your FREE lunch. After all you DESERVE it. Right!

I don't want a free lunch. Neither do I want to scrap it (and no - one word is not rhetoric) on the basis of an anecdotal (this would be rhetorical) diatribe about your childhood. Rather like people who look back on the 1960's as some sort of golden-age while conveniently ignoring the many, significant problems of that era.

Edited August 27, 2007 by Number 6

[rebeccajo 14]

This is very political and the agency I work for is directly involved with it.

Hey Jim, does this mean you know interesting stuff you could tell us, but if you did you'd have to kill us?

[Caladan 19]

I don't want to call you a liar.....BUT do you know what WIC is? I have a hard time believing someone asked if they could pay for nails with WIC. WIC recipients get a check, on that check it is printed 1 Gallon of Milk, eggs, and cheese or something of the sort. Only the person with the folder can use the check and only in places where the Government has approved it. I kept my mouth shut but since you KEEP repeating it.. IF you make something up to make people look bad, please make it plausible..Like she used food stamps, or offered you her child or something.

You don't wanna call me a liar BUT you will, eh? I keep repeating it cos it was THAT OUTRAGEOUS.

Yeah, lemme lie about my experiences

Believe me or not, S&C, but I'd think twice really before publicly calling someone a liar. Bit low form if you ask me.

She's right though - WIC specifically states a grocery item and a specific quantity. It can only be exchanged for specific foods.

LisaD probably meant EBT, which is the 'food stamp' benefit that has the little credit-card like appearance and is used like cash at grocery stores. WIC is the mother/infant/child fund, and that is certificate-for-goods.

But on it's own, yeah, WIC-for-nails when it's just not a cash benefit does sound a bit unbelievable. Either Lisa's got her acronyms mixed up (my bet), or she's telling tall tales, or her client at the nail salon was having fun winding up the teenager.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

Could be - WIC , like school lunches, are one of those benefits that deliver exactly as promised (nutrition). Whether people "deserve" them is another question.