Satire Cartoon and Discussion

[allousa 1]

I just wonder, have you yourself been personally affected by what has happened? Have you been inside Gaza or the West Bank to even know what life is like there? Time and time again, I hear the same vile, racist and my religion or ethnicity is better than yours from people that have NEVER been to that part of the world and experienced first hand what goes on there.

To answer your question, yes - I've been to the West Bank and Gaza and I have seen

for myself the conditions of the Palestinians who live there. Granted, I was there before

the second Palestinian Intifada broke out, so things were a little different back then.

Far from perfect, but people did have food and water and electricity. Tourism flourished

and the economy was booming -- GDP growth was 7.5% in 1999 and early 2000. Then

came the Intifada and the Israeli response.

Remember, there are two sides to every story. While Israel is certainly complicit in the

oppression of the Palestinian people, the Palestinians' own leadership is largely to blame

for what's happening there today.

Obviously you don't read very well....

"Not anymore. Thank GOD, I met my husband and traveled out of this country to see how self-centered and egotistical that kind of thinking is. THERE IS NOT ONE RELIGIOUS GROUP OR RACE OF PEOPLE THAT CAN CLAIM SUPERIORITY. Both "sides" have made grevious errors. Neither do I believe in bombing each other in to submission"

My God, you cannot even begin to compare what Gaza was like 8 years ago! There are few places on this earth that have as high of an unemployment rate as Gaza and the West Bank. With the borders locked down for the last 3 years, explain to me how tourism and economy is supposed to flourish.

I'm curious as to what capacity you were there visiting.

[mawilson 2,133]

Obviously you don't read very well....

"Not anymore. Thank GOD, I met my husband and traveled out of this country to see how self-centered and egotistical that kind of thinking is. THERE IS NOT ONE RELIGIOUS GROUP OR RACE OF PEOPLE THAT CAN CLAIM SUPERIORITY. Both "sides" have made grevious errors. Neither do I believe in bombing each other in to submission"

Actually, my comment was directed at WoM whose views are myopically one-sided.

I'm not sure why you brought up religion or the racial aspect of the conflict -

I have never claimed superiority of one group over the other.

My God, you cannot even begin to compare what Gaza was like 8 years ago! There are few places on this earth that have as high of an unemployment rate as Gaza and the West Bank. With the borders locked down for the last 3 years, explain to me how tourism and economy is supposed to flourish.

Obviously they can't now, but the borders are not locked down for no reason.

You can't unleash a wave of bloody attacks and then wonder "gee, why did

Israel revoke my work permit?"

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I will have time to spend on y'all in the next few days ... but I'm on vacation today

So in the meantime between times, here's your basic short answer in just 3min45sec

Edited August 27, 2007 by wife_of_mahmoud

[mawilson 2,133]

I will have time to spend on y'all in the next few days ... but I'm on vacation today

So in the meantime between times, here's your basic short answer in just 3min45sec

You do know that Rastafari believe they are the true Israelites, descendants of the ancient twelve tribes of Israel?

Repatriation - the desire to return to Africa (Zion) after 400 years of slavery - is central to their doctrine.

Zion = Ethiopia, Babylon/Egypt = America/Caribbean, River Jordan = Atlantic Ocean

[mawilson 2,133]

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I'm baaaack..... after a great vacation !

OK where were we now.... let's see.... the Iraq war.... who planned it.... and for whose benefit. Since no one has had anything to add about Perle, Feith & Friends, let's move on to your next comment:

What you've written is the truth, except the part where you claim it was all done for Israel's benefit.

A strong Iran and a U.S.-occupied Iraq on the verge of civil war is NOT better for Israel

than a strong Iraq under Saddam Hussein, even if they could save 20% buying oil from

Iraq instead of Russia.

Of course the way Iraq turned out isn't better for Israel -- you know, a lot of people expressed concerns about that, long before the war got going. But they were dismissed or simply ignored.

I realize that Israel's party line says it's not good for Americans to know just *how* pleased Israel is about this whole thing (especially now that it's turned out to be such a fiasco.) But Israeli leaders were absolutely overjoyed that the U.S. invaded Iraq. In fact, their supporters didn't just push for the invasion to happen, they also deliberately funneled falsified intelligence reports about non-existent WMDs to ensure that it DID happen (reference good ole Douglas Feith in my previous post.) And these same people STILL want the U.S. to go to war against Iran next, and they are still pushing for that scheme.

Of course the neo-cons' idea wasn't to create a "strong Iran" or an "Iraq on the verge of civil war." The whole crackpot plan (as sold to the Doofus-in-Chief) was supposed to be a slamdunk, with Iraqis welcoming American troops with flowers and gift boxes of baklawa as the U.S. installed a hand-picked puppet government that would hand over their natural resources to Israel to manage.

You just have to sit back and contemplate the sheer arrogance of this plan. Not only would the U.S. do Israel the favor of knocking off all of Israel's regional competitors -- digging itself billions of dollars into debt, sending its international reputation into the garbage bin, deploying thousands of its own soldiers to die, and causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis (people who had done Americans absolutely no harm) -- but wait -- there's more ! The scheme was supposed to hand Israel the added bonus of cheap Iraqi oil, in return for its "unequivocal support" (for the plan its own supporters devised, in order to benefit Israel !)

There's an old pipeline that once carried oil from Kirkuk in northern Iraq to Mosul, then west through the Iraqi desert, across Jordan and on into Haifa. This pipeline was closed by the Arab countries in 1948, after the Zionists' Irgun and Haganah attacked and subsequently annexed the Arab cities of Haifa, Jaffa, Tiberias, Safad, the Galilee and more, driving out hundreds of thousands of Palestinians and appropriating their property. So for 60 years, no oil has flowed to Haifa.

You can Google to read all about this old pipeline. And you can find plenty of articles about Israeli leaders licking their chops in anticipation of the expected "windfall." Here are just a few to get you started -- it's mighty interesting reading.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,940250,00.html (Israel seeking pipeline for Iraqi oil; "new peace treaty with Israel" at top of agenda for new Iraqi government -- this is barely a month after the war starts)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...1/ixportal.html (Netanyahu gloats over anticipated Iraqi oil)

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.j...mp;listSrc=Y%3E (US "asks" Israel to check possibility of piping oil from Kirkuk to Haifa, as a "bonus" for Israel's "unequivocal support" of the War On Iraq)

http://www.jewishsf.com/bk030418/i22b.shtml (mentions how it's "unwise" for Israelis to discuss the matter publicly)

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/ED04Ak01.html (talks about "regime change" needed in Iraq to facilitate pipeline project)

Once the oil started flowing into Haifa again, Israel could skim off what it needed at a bargain-basement price, then middle-man it out to the Mediterranean at a hefty mark-up. And all for almost no investment -- they'd get America to do all the heavy lifting (and all the dying) for them, and even get America to pay for renovating the pipeline !

(One might pause at this point and ask why it wouldn't be Americans rather than Israelis who should reap the benefits of such discounted Iraqi oil, since Americans are overwhelmingly the ones who paid the price for the Great Iraqi Adventure.)

Face it: the U.S. itself had so very little to gain by launching a military invasion of Iraq. Saddam Hussein was more than willing to sell his oil at a reasonable enough price. And American and British oil companies had plenty of oil and gas reserves in various countries around the world. Even at top production levels, Iraq provided barely 10% of America's oil. The biggest supplier of energy to the U.S. is Canada, closely followed by Saudi Arabia, and then Mexico and then Venezuela. Before the war, gas was already cheaper in the U.S. than in Israel, and even today, after the huge jackup in the price due to the war, it's STILL cheaper than in Israel. Oil people knew what an enormous blunder it was to invade Iraq, a country recognized as a "Russian client."

So this was the deal: America "got" to spend hundreds of billions of its own people's dollars (and even billions it didn't have, mortgaging future generations to pay for it) and "got" to sacrifice several thousands of its sons and daughters to death and maiming, all in exchange for -- well.... nothing. Nothing except pissing off most of its Arab allies and alienating much of the world, sending oil prices through the ceiling, while Israel sat safely on its hands, smirking and waiting to scoop up the expected spoils.

Suchhhh a deal....

Fact: this oh-so-scary "rain" of Scuds only managed to kill a single Israeli. (However, another 15 Israelis died from their own panicked reactions -- some had heart attacks while cowering in their state-of-the-art personal home bomb shelters, some suffocated in their state-provided gas masks because they didn't know how to put them on properly, and some accidently overdosed themselves in their rush to gulp down a state-provided chemical weapon antidote, which caused a deadly reaction in several.)

Yes. You seem rather upset about that.

You're projecting again.

Actually, the fact that only one Israeli was killed should be viewed as *good* news.

But as far as I know, no Saudis or Americans "panicked" themselves to death.

So you're comparing the reaction of U.S. and Saudi troops with that of Israeli civilians?

How f*cking sick.

Hmmm.... let's take a closer look at this. Now as you know, most Israelis (both men and women) are required to serve in the military. Men stay in the reserve until they're 55, women until they're 24. Israel doesn't like to give info about how many troops it has, but intelligence analysts currently estimate the IDF has about 125,000 active duty, and some 600,000 more in the reserve. *Pondering* Excluding Arabs (since they are exempt from military service) that's like 1 out of 7 Israelis is either currently in the IDF or in the reserve. And they have lots and lots of former soldiers. So seems like a whole lot of these "Israeli civilians" would actually be currently in the military or reserve, or would have been former soldiers.

I'd like to see how you would react if your town was attacked by Scud missiles

potentially carrying chemical warheads. I'm sure you would know how to put on

a gas mask properly on yourself and your children or others who need assistance, being

such a f*ing brave American.

Umm.... as a matter of fact, I've been IN Palestine when the IDF was attacking, including the spring of 2002 -- maybe you've heard of it ? It was the biggest Israeli offensive in the West Bank since 1967 -- they destroyed the Jenin refugee camp, bombed the Muqata and held Arafat and the Church of the Nativity under siege, among other activities.

It was about 4am March 29th -- I was awake and heard them coming. You never forget the sound of tanks and APCs moving in on your neighborhood.

We were under extreme conditions for months. The IDF killed some 500 Palestinians -- many simply assassinated -- and arrested/detained thousands more. We had missiles dropping on our neighborhood, tanks firing in our street, shooting every day and every night, executions, assassinations, searches and arrests. The streets were full of rubble and broken glass and the dust of crushed concrete.

One day the IDF blew the door off my apartment building and the one next door, marauded through everyone's flat, finally kicking out the family on the top floor and setting up a sniper nest in their home. The soldiers actually slept in the family's beds. For some reason they were mad at a house down the street -- they drove a tank up into the yard just to mash up the guy's car. And they fired some tank shells at two apartment buildings at the end of my street, which punched it full of 2' smoking black holes.

Oh and we didn't have any bomb shelters to run to or gas masks to fumble with. All we could do was just grit our teeth and hope to get through it somehow -- we had no other choice.

So umm yeah I kind of know what it's like.

By the way, my husband and millions of other Palestinians were there in 1991, so of course they remember the Scuds quite well. They were *every bit* as much at risk for being hit as Israelis were.

But Palestinians had no bomb shelters to hide in, no place to run to, no way to even get ready -- Israel slapped them under curfew the day before the war started. Since there's never any use in panicking, they figured they might as well go up on the roofs and at least watch the show -- they could actually see the missiles streaking across the sky. (And, interestingly, not a single death attributed to "panic.")

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Still no replies about the oil stuff.

Ok..... but there is still so much more to respond to in this thread !

The Middle East was always a key battleground in the hostility between the United States and

the Soviet Union. If you think the Cold War is over, think again. Look at Russia’s geopolitical

ambitions in the region and you will understand the importance of a permanent US military

presence in Eastern Europe and the Middle East.

L.O.L.

"Use more Cold War rhetoric."

This was actually one of the recommendations of the "Clean Break" strategies -- when arguing for Israel's "importance" to the U.S., try to fan Cold War hysteria.

"This is typical anti-Israel schizophrenia -- or rather "double talk," if you will -- where Israel

is loudly proclaimed to be the scourge of the Middle East threatening the stability and security

of an otherwise peaceful region, while at the same time petulantly trying to declare the other

side "victorious" in their battle against the "weak" and "impotent" IDF."

As for the rest of WoM's comments, she's so blinded with her hatred of Israel and one-sided view

of the conflict, she's become completely unhinged from reality.

She's too far gone to be saved.

LOL ####### FTW !

You just cannot admit that Israel's unpopularity is created by its own behavior.

If someone doesn't subscribe to the "pore little Israel can do no wrong" mantra and bow down in worship at the Altar of the Israeli Defense Force and its own self-generated hype.... well of course it must be because critics are "blinded with hatred." Couldn't possibly have anything to do with Israel's own belligerent political and military activities.

LOL @ "unhinged from reality." You know, Zionists have been spinning the story of Israel being the blameless and heroic victim in this conflict for a very long time now... but unfortunately for their schmaltzy little fairy tale, this is the age of the internet and the very public record is at people's fingertips now.

You know what, Mawilson ? Fact is, the IDF has a whole *lot* of critics, both outside and inside Israel -- including many Jewish Americans AND Israelis who are appalled and disgusted by what Israel's military has become.

Benyamin Netanyahu's own nephew is one of the hundreds of IDF conscripts who refused to take part in the illegal occupation -- the so-called "refuseniks."

And then there are Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, the UN, Israel's own B'Tselem and many many more -- all making the same condemnations: the Israeli military has committed war crimes, human rights violations, and wanton destruction. So all of them are "unhinged" and "hate Israel" ?

What a silly argument, and what's even sillier is that you expect most people to actually buy it.

Anyone can Google for this information. Take the refuseniks, for instance.... hundreds of Israelis -- Jewish Israelis -- who are taking a public stance, refusing to be "an instrument of Israel's aggression against the Palestinians." It's very interesting reading.

"We shall not continue to fight beyond the 1967 borders in order to dominate, expel, starve and humiliate an entire people."

http://www.refusersolidarity.net/images/ads/ad1.pdf

The IDF is nothing to brag about, not any more. The IDF hasn't managed to win a war in 40 years. It could not accomplish a decisive victory against Egypt in 1973, or succeed in its ongoing campaigns against the Palestinians or Southern Lebanon.

IDF soldiers routinely violate the army's own code of ethics, and the IDF protects these soldiers. Because of their conduct during last year's assault on Lebanon, many IDF soldiers risk arrest on charges for war crimes if they ever travel to Europe.

Of course this is not to say that every member of the IDF is a psychopathic killer, or an idiot or incompetent, or a coward. But the leadership is rotten. The training is rotten. And most of all, the ongoing primary mission -- to aggress against neighboring states in order to seize their territory and resources and impose Israel's right-wing political demands; enforce an illegal occupation and de-facto annexation; provide protection for illegal settlers who squat on these territories, subject an entire population to draconian laws and restrictions which are only applied on the basis of ethnicity/religion and impose severe economic hardships on that ethnic group -- in other words to systematically terrorize, subjugate and dispossess an indigenous population -- is completely and utterly rotten.

This is the reason the IDF has one of the highest suicide rates of any military force. This is the reason the IDF has one of the highest rates of draft dodgers in the world.

As I've mentioned, hundreds of Israeli soldiers have denounced the Israeli army's practices in the Palestinian territories. Former soldies have admitted the IDF's murder of civilians and prisoners of war. There are plenty of critics of the IDF from within its own ranks.

Morale in the IDF is terrible. Voluntary enlistment is at an all-time low. Draft-dodging is at an all-time high. 30-40% of conscripts seek mental health counseling in their first year of service. In 2004, suicide became the leading cause of death of Israeli soldiers.

Next up: a reply to Desert Fox.

Edited September 23, 2007 by wife_of_mahmoud