UK Healthcare

[SteveLaura 0]

I think walk-in clinics are the way to go. Having a free health service - as it should be - unfortunately means that you open the door to every hypochondriac with a hangnail to take up valuable time. A&E can't cope if you don't want to wait to make an appointment to see your doctor. Besides, they're dealing with the pub fight victims, so you end up waiting for four hours anyway.

Open more walk-ins. See a nurse. Get a bandaid and a kind word, if that's what you need. Or access to treatment pronto if it's more serious. (And with fewer people taking up your doctor's time, hopefully that should be swifter.)

[Captain Oates 911]

I can walk in and see my 3 lady doctors any morning without an appointment.

I can get fast free treatment for dangerous things like heart attack/stroke

Where the NHS is simply hopeless is all the things that ruin your life without being dangerous - say a hernia or depression ..

Then you have to wait months and months with your quality of life affected.

The U.S. health system is truly financially scary and the financial incentives for doctors to 'run up the bill' are disturbing - and for the insurers to walk away on a technicallity - but if it goes well then it's supposed to be great (generally speaking)

Neil Kinnock once said in a speech following the re-election of a Tory government: 'I warn you not to get sick. I warn you not to be old'.

I am just a young guy setting out in life and looking forward to my 60th birthday in November so I don't need to worry about U.S. insurers not giving me a good deal as an immigrant (cough), but I will have to take care with arrangements in future

Edited August 24, 2007 by saywhat

[SteveLaura 0]

Where the NHS is simply hopeless is all the things that ruin your life without being dangerous - say a hernia or depression ..

Then you have to wait months and months with your quality of life affected.

I would agree with you there, Alan. I think that the NHS were getting better at treating mental illness when I left - albeit in a pharmaceutical rather than a counselling way - but hernias, hip operations and like are still lagging behind.

[Captain Oates 911]

I took the added precaution of marrying a young American who wants to work until she drops at jobs which carry full spousal health insurance - but it makes me feel sad for the rest...

just joking Carolyn in case you read this ! It was a happy coincidence ! kiss kiss

[KaiserD 12]

The U.S. health system is truly financially scary and the financial incentives for doctors to 'run up the bill' are disturbing - and for the insurers to walk away on a technicallity - but if it goes well then it's supposed to be great (generally speaking)

so true

There's got to be a happier balance in there somewhere.

[Leney 0]

I have a few NHS stories, and none are really that bad, and one happened because of a USA company the UK purchased supplies from lol (figures!)

My first experience with NHS was just bizarre. After living in the UK my hubby and I thought I was pregnant and he made me go to his GP. I only spoke to a nurse that day, but she was very thorough, asked a lot of questions, was very sweet. She had me give her a urine sample, and told me she'd call me later with the results. That seemed very odd to me, as I thought pee tests were instant, but didn't argue. We went home, called the office after waiting two days for a result to a pee test, only to be told it was negative. Honestly we just didn't believe it, at that point it was march, and I hadn't had my visitor since January. We went out that day, came home just in time to watch the news and there it was, first story: PREGNANCY TESTS RECALLED IN NORTHERN ENGLAND AND SCOTLAND DUE TO FALSE NEGATIVES - Tests provided by a USA firm have been giving false negatives and it has effected hundreds of women throughout Northern England and Scotland. We knew this was us lol Went back a week later and presto it was positive. They never admitted it was their mistake (or the tests mistake) but I did get quality care during my time there but I went back home to give birth.

In another experience, our youngest son has asthma, and while we were visiting Scotland for his first trip to meet his gran, he became very ill about 5 days before we had to leave. My mother-in-law took us to emergency, he was seen immediately by a doctor who I could not understand at all, I had to keep looking at my mother-in-law to translate, and she could barely understand her. He was admitted immediately there were no xrays, no blood tests, nothing I have seen doctors do in the USA when I've rushed him to the ER. No blood oxygen monitor on him constantly. I thought we were getting substandard care from the start (because I had a preconceived notion of how it "should" be) A nurse came in, gave him several breathing treatments in a row, and he finally was able to rest. We were in a room with maybe 12 other children and their parents. He was given breathing treatments all night long (not with a nebulizer as they do in US hospitals, but with an inhaler and spacer) The next morning he was exhausted but his breathing was wonderful. They wouldn't discharge him until late the next evening, but he only had to spend one night in the hospital. I had a similar experience in the USA, they kept him in for 4 days and 3 nights and he was hooked to tubes, machines, and needles the whole time. After getting over my initial #######, I realized the care he was given in the UK was a little less invasive, and much less traumatic for him, with the same end result - Plus even though he didn't have an NHS card, they said it would be free as his father was a UK citizen, and he didn't have to apply for a card or number, it would be taken care of without paper work. *shock*

[Captain Oates 911]

I have a few NHS stories, and none are really that bad, and one happened because of a USA company the UK purchased supplies from lol (figures!)

My first experience with NHS was just bizarre. After living in the UK my hubby and I thought I was pregnant and he made me go to his GP. I only spoke to a nurse that day, but she was very thorough, asked a lot of questions, was very sweet. She had me give her a urine sample, and told me she'd call me later with the results. That seemed very odd to me, as I thought pee tests were instant, but didn't argue. We went home, called the office after waiting two days for a result to a pee test, only to be told it was negative. Honestly we just didn't believe it, at that point it was march, and I hadn't had my visitor since January. We went out that day, came home just in time to watch the news and there it was, first story: PREGNANCY TESTS RECALLED IN NORTHERN ENGLAND AND SCOTLAND DUE TO FALSE NEGATIVES - Tests provided by a USA firm have been giving false negatives and it has effected hundreds of women throughout Northern England and Scotland. We knew this was us lol Went back a week later and presto it was positive. They never admitted it was their mistake (or the tests mistake) but I did get quality care during my time there but I went back home to give birth.

In another experience, our youngest son has asthma, and while we were visiting Scotland for his first trip to meet his gran, he became very ill about 5 days before we had to leave. My mother-in-law took us to emergency, he was seen immediately by a doctor who I could not understand at all, I had to keep looking at my mother-in-law to translate, and she could barely understand her. He was admitted immediately there were no xrays, no blood tests, nothing I have seen doctors do in the USA when I've rushed him to the ER. No blood oxygen monitor on him constantly. I thought we were getting substandard care from the start (because I had a preconceived notion of how it "should" be) A nurse came in, gave him several breathing treatments in a row, and he finally was able to rest. We were in a room with maybe 12 other children and their parents. He was given breathing treatments all night long (not with a nebulizer as they do in US hospitals, but with an inhaler and spacer) The next morning he was exhausted but his breathing was wonderful. They wouldn't discharge him until late the next evening, but he only had to spend one night in the hospital. I had a similar experience in the USA, they kept him in for 4 days and 3 nights and he was hooked to tubes, machines, and needles the whole time. After getting over my initial #######, I realized the care he was given in the UK was a little less invasive, and much less traumatic for him, with the same end result - Plus even though he didn't have an NHS card, they said it would be free as his father was a UK citizen, and he didn't have to apply for a card or number, it would be taken care of without paper work. *shock*

Yes that is one thing I am concerned about in the U.S. - most people say the standard is very good but there is always that nagging doubt that because it is a business with a profit motive, there will always be a tendency to over treat the problem...

My wife says it doesnt work like that and the doctors in the U.S. are motivated by service to the patient (like the UK) rather than money - I will have to find out through experience

Edited August 26, 2007 by saywhat

[TracyTN 237]

I think that can vary from doctor to doctor. There are always charlatans out there, unfortunately.

You have to find one you are comfortable with who you are sure has your best interests and overall health in mind.

That can mean going to a few before you settle on one, or going to someone who is recommended by a friend or family member.

[Lansbury 19]

Yes that is one thing I am concerned about in the U.S. - most people say the standard is very good but there is always that nagging doubt that because it is a business with a profit motive, there will always be a tendency to over treat the problem...

My wife says it doesnt work like that and the doctors in the U.S. are motivated by service to the patient (like the UK) rather than money - I will have to find out through experience

I found quite a reasonable chap, he certainly didn't come across as being out for the money. In fact he said given my medical history we wasn't going to get rich on me.

[Captain Oates 911]

Yes that is one thing I am concerned about in the U.S. - most people say the standard is very good but there is always that nagging doubt that because it is a business with a profit motive, there will always be a tendency to over treat the problem...

My wife says it doesnt work like that and the doctors in the U.S. are motivated by service to the patient (like the UK) rather than money - I will have to find out through experience

I found quite a reasonable chap, he certainly didn't come across as being out for the money. In fact he said given my medical history we wasn't going to get rich on me.

Thats good - Carolyn is usually right about these things. I suppose the problem comes if you get injured a couple of thousand miles away from home and you don't know the ropes in that area...

Anyway we intend to get good health insurance as she will be unemployed at first. I will go for a really high deductible like $5k or even $10k as that cuts the premium right down...

At least as a Brit, if you needed a new ticker or something and your insurance company finds a way of ducking out, and wont pay a quarter mill, you can always come back to the UK and get fixed up. I have seen posts about the immorality of that, ( a lot of moralising goes on) and they say I should volunteer to stay in the U.S and lose my home and pension and savings in those circumstances. However, my past dealings with the NHS are miniscule and I have been paying into the system since 1964 so I am due a few sticking plasters I reckon....

It's nice to have that backstop as they will pauper you in the U.S. if you are not insured (or if your insurance wriggles out of it)...

Isn't it strange that Carolyn can come to the UK and get free NHS cover on landing even though the UK govt didnt require a medical ?

If she had had a very expensive uninsured health problem she would have found a great solution to it coming here....

As it is, she has made no calls on them, partly because the U.S. health industry makes sure that the NHS is seen as a very bad idea and 'they give you an aspirin and send you away'. She is saving any routine stuff until she is back in the US even though she will have to pay because of what she has heard about the NHS before coming here.

The NHS is pretty bad in some areas but its not bad for free ! Remember it is free - even if you have never worked - its free - paying NHI is not required to get free treatment.

Ok I will give the US doctors the benefit of the doubt as far as profiteering is concerned - but I will get an estimate all the same !

Edited August 27, 2007 by saywhat

[TracyTN 237]

Yes that is one thing I am concerned about in the U.S. - most people say the standard is very good but there is always that nagging doubt that because it is a business with a profit motive, there will always be a tendency to over treat the problem...

My wife says it doesnt work like that and the doctors in the U.S. are motivated by service to the patient (like the UK) rather than money - I will have to find out through experience

I found quite a reasonable chap, he certainly didn't come across as being out for the money. In fact he said given my medical history we wasn't going to get rich on me.

Thats good - Carolyn is usually right about these things. I suppose the problem comes if you get injured a couple of thousand miles away from home and you don't know the ropes in that area...

Anyway we intend to get good health insurance as she will be unemployed at first. I will go for a really high deductible like $5k or even $10k as that cuts the premium right down...

At least as a Brit, if you needed a new ticker or something and your insurance company finds a way of ducking out, and wont pay a quarter mill, you can always come back to the UK and get fixed up. I have seen posts about the immorality of that, ( a lot of moralising goes on) and they say I should volunteer to stay in the U.S and lose my home and pension and savings in those circumstances. However, my past dealings with the NHS are miniscule and I have been paying into the system since 1964 so I am due a few sticking plasters I reckon....

It's nice to have that backstop as they will pauper you in the U.S. if you are not insured (or if your insurance wriggles out of it)...

Isn't it strange that Carolyn can come to the UK and get free NHS cover on landing even though the UK govt didnt require a medical ?

If she had had a very expensive uninsured health problem she would have found a great solution to it coming here....

As it is, she has made no calls on them, partly because the U.S. health industry makes sure that the NHS is seen as a very bad idea and 'they give you an aspirin and send you away'. She is saving any routine stuff until she is back in the US even though she will have to pay because of what she has heard about the NHS before coming here.

The NHS is pretty bad in some areas but its not bad for free ! Remember it is free - even if you have never worked - its free - paying NHI is not required to get free treatment.

Ok I will give the US doctors the benefit of the doubt as far as profiteering is concerned - but I will get an estimate all the same !

But doesn't paying the NHI make it NOT free? (Unless you are one of those who does not pay?)

Plus I know you pay out some for prescriptions (though not much usually) and dentists? So NOT free!

[Captain Oates 911]

Yes that is one thing I am concerned about in the U.S. - most people say the standard is very good but there is always that nagging doubt that because it is a business with a profit motive, there will always be a tendency to over treat the problem...

My wife says it doesnt work like that and the doctors in the U.S. are motivated by service to the patient (like the UK) rather than money - I will have to find out through experience

I found quite a reasonable chap, he certainly didn't come across as being out for the money. In fact he said given my medical history we wasn't going to get rich on me.

Thats good - Carolyn is usually right about these things. I suppose the problem comes if you get injured a couple of thousand miles away from home and you don't know the ropes in that area...

Anyway we intend to get good health insurance as she will be unemployed at first. I will go for a really high deductible like $5k or even $10k as that cuts the premium right down...

At least as a Brit, if you needed a new ticker or something and your insurance company finds a way of ducking out, and wont pay a quarter mill, you can always come back to the UK and get fixed up. I have seen posts about the immorality of that, ( a lot of moralising goes on) and they say I should volunteer to stay in the U.S and lose my home and pension and savings in those circumstances. However, my past dealings with the NHS are miniscule and I have been paying into the system since 1964 so I am due a few sticking plasters I reckon....

It's nice to have that backstop as they will pauper you in the U.S. if you are not insured (or if your insurance wriggles out of it)...

Isn't it strange that Carolyn can come to the UK and get free NHS cover on landing even though the UK govt didnt require a medical ?

If she had had a very expensive uninsured health problem she would have found a great solution to it coming here....

As it is, she has made no calls on them, partly because the U.S. health industry makes sure that the NHS is seen as a very bad idea and 'they give you an aspirin and send you away'. She is saving any routine stuff until she is back in the US even though she will have to pay because of what she has heard about the NHS before coming here.

The NHS is pretty bad in some areas but its not bad for free ! Remember it is free - even if you have never worked - its free - paying NHI is not required to get free treatment.

Ok I will give the US doctors the benefit of the doubt as far as profiteering is concerned - but I will get an estimate all the same !

But doesn't paying the NHI make it NOT free? (Unless you are one of those who does not pay?)

Plus I know you pay out some for prescriptions (though not much usually) and dentists? So NOT free!

Well as I say , if an American comes to live here as a resident and falls down the steps as she gets off the plane in Manchester, she is entitled to free treatment open ended, no lifetime limit, no limit for that incident or that condition. This is despite the fact that she never paid a penny into the NHS. NHI is more like general taxation in that there is no contract where not paying insurance unentitles you to treatment. If as a sole trader, you defrauded your NHI bill for 10 years, you would still get free treatment as there is no connection, no contract, no link. Prescription charges are £6 something flat rate even if the drugs cost one thousand.

If the al queada guy who tried to blow up glasgow airport had lived, he could have had 2 years free treatment for his burns without his assets being touched ... now there is a thought...

Dentists are a mess and even me, as tight as I am goes private now. So I will probably pay the same for dentistry in the US unless I want one of those blindingly white hollywood smiles they all have on TV...

Edited August 27, 2007 by saywhat

[TracyTN 237]

Well as I say , if an American comes to live here as a resident and falls down the steps as she gets off the plane in Manchester, she is entitled to free treatment open ended, no lifetime limit, no limit for that incident or that condition. This is despite the fact that she never paid a penny into the NHS. NHI is more like general taxation in that there is no contract where not paying insurance unentitles you to treatment. If as a sole trader, you defrauded your NHI bill for 10 years, you would still get free treatment as there is no connection, no contract, no link. Prescription charges are £6 something flat rate even if the drugs cost one thousand.

If the al queada guy who tried to blow up glasgow airport had lived, he could have had 2 years free treatment for his burns without his assets being touched ... now there is a thought...

Dentists are a mess and even me, as tight as I am goes private now. So I will probably pay the same for dentistry in the US unless I want one of those blindingly white hollywood smiles they all have on TV...

Ok - I think I see what you were getting at now about the NHI. Interesting about the sole trader bit - thanks for the explanation. Too bad hubby was so honest (17 years self employed)! Could have saved himself a ton of $!!

I think the prescription deal is great - wish we had it!!! But even though its WAY reasonable, its still not free. That point seems to be lost on those who want to talk about why we here should have 'free' healthcare - they seem to conveniently forget stuff like that which makes it not free.

I'll be curious to hear your take on costs for dentistry here vs. private in the UK. My hubby can't get over how cheap his first cleaning + 5 xrays was here in comparison to what he would have paid for it in the UK -- and his was even a NHS dentist.

[Captain Oates 911]

Ok - I think I see what you were getting at now about the NHI. Interesting about the sole trader bit - thanks for the explanation. Too bad hubby was so honest (17 years self employed)! Could have saved himself a ton of $!!

I think the prescription deal is great - wish we had it!!! But even though its WAY reasonable, its still not free. That point seems to be lost on those who want to talk about why we here should have 'free' healthcare - they seem to conveniently forget stuff like that which makes it not free.

I'll be curious to hear your take on costs for dentistry here vs. private in the UK. My hubby can't get over how cheap his first cleaning + 5 xrays was here in comparison to what he would have paid for it in the UK -- and his was even a NHS dentist.

Firstly I was horrified when Carolyn told me the routine manner in which dentists do x-rays in U.S. We are very strictly rationed when it comes to x-rays coz they cause cancer. We have lifetime limits and doctors/dentists are loathe to do em. My cousin died of jaw cancer (60 fags a day not xrays) . Freddy Mercury died of only 1 ** a day... no no thats digressing

The dentists here have lead aprons and all that stuff and are really scared about it. She has xrays all the time for routine checkups in the U.S.... big difference - I will try and avoid that. At least we don't need a night light in the bedroom with all those glowing teeth.

Anyway, yes I was scared of US dentistry costs as I thought they might take a K off me if I lost a crown - but apparently it isnt any more than the UK and so I am quite prepared to believe its often cheaper... The surgery building and all the equipment and the dentists car and petrol are all going to be half the UK price or less for a start - so the salaries can be double and still end up cheaper.....

[Lansbury 19]

At least as a Brit, if you needed a new ticker or something and your insurance company finds a way of ducking out, and wont pay a quarter mill, you can always come back to the UK and get fixed up. I have seen posts about the immorality of that, ( a lot of moralising goes on) and they say I should volunteer to stay in the U.S and lose my home and pension and savings in those circumstances. However, my past dealings with the NHS are miniscule and I have been paying into the system since 1964 so I am due a few sticking plasters I reckon....

I think we are of a very close age and I'm with you on that one. I've paid my NI since I was 17 for 42 years and whatever I might need from the UK health system I have more than contributed for.