71% Favor Requiring Foreign Visitors to Carry Universal ID Card

[Caladan 19]

There's a difference between saying 'there are ways around a restriction on government power' and saying 'there are no restrictions on government power.' The Bill of Rights only works if the government respects it, but that doesn't mean I want to take it out.

[GaryC 7]

Oh well shoot. The subject is moot. We are going to have it anyway. I forgot about the Real ID law. In 2 years we will have it. GOOD!!

Real ID is bad enough, but it's not a National ID card -- it's just a national standard for state-issued DMV cards.

Fortunately, individual states can opt out.

To bad you moved to get away from it. With the Real ID act going into effect in 2009 we will have it anyway.

Not the same thing, really. Far from it.

It will be close enough. Some of the provisions:

The REAL ID Act Driver's License Summary[5] details the following provisions of the Act's driver's license title:

* Repeal of 9/11 Commission Implementation Act DL/ID Provisions

* Minimum Standards for Federal Use

* DL/ID Document Standards

* Minimum DL/ID Issuance Standards

* Verification of Documents

* Immigration Requirements

* Security and Fraud Prevention Standards

* Data Retention and Storage

* Linking of Databases

* Grants to States

* Authority

After December 31, 2009, "a Federal agency may not accept, for any official purpose, a driver's license or identification card issued by a state to any person unless the state is meeting the requirements" specified in the Real ID Act. States remain free to also issue non-complying licenses and IDs, so long as these have a unique design and a clear statement that they cannot be accepted for any Federal identification purpose. The federal Transportation Security Administration is responsible for security check-in at airports, so bearers of non-compliant documents would no longer be able to travel on common carrier aircraft without additional screening[6].

[Heracles 417]

All modern drivers licenses should indicate someone's status and include basic biometrics.

Some states still use laminated paper licenses..

[Marilyn. 340]

I still don't understand how the linking of all the databases is going to be a good thing ??

[mawilson 2,133]

* Immigration Requirements

Immigration requirements for driver's licenses. No real changes since most states

already have them.

* Linking of Databases

Linking of participating state DMV databases in this context, nothing more.

[GaryC 7]

* Immigration Requirements

Immigration requirements for driver's licenses. No real changes since most states

already have them.

As long as it indicates the legal status of the holder then it will suffice for this conversation. It would then allow for the universal alien card since a USC and LPR can show his status. That is the important thing. Real ID's for residence and the universal alien card for everyone else.

[mawilson 2,133]

* Immigration Requirements

Immigration requirements for driver's licenses. No real changes since most states

already have them.

As long as it indicates the legal status of the holder then it will suffice for this conversation. It would then allow for the universal alien card since a USC and LPR can show his status. That is the important thing. Real ID's for residence and the universal alien card for everyone else.

I'm ok with that. In fact, my NY State driver's license already showed my immigration status:

"Temporary Visitor Status Exp. xx-xx-xxxx"

When I got my green card, I had the restriction removed.

[GaryC 7]

I see that it does require the legal status be included. I like this idea!

Documentation required before issuing a license or ID card

Before a card can be issued, the applicant must provide the following documentation[7]:

* A photo ID, or a non-photo ID that includes full legal name and birthdate.

* Documentation of birthdate.

* Documentation of legal status and Social Security number

* Documentation showing name and principal residence address.

Digital images of each identity document will be stored in each state DMV database.

* Immigration Requirements

Immigration requirements for driver's licenses. No real changes since most states

already have them.

As long as it indicates the legal status of the holder then it will suffice for this conversation. It would then allow for the universal alien card since a USC and LPR can show his status. That is the important thing. Real ID's for residence and the universal alien card for everyone else.

I'm ok with that. In fact, my NY State driver's license already showed my immigration status:

"Temporary Visitor Status Exp. xx-xx-xxxx"

When I got my green card, I had the restriction removed.

Then it seems we can agree. Do you still have reservations with a universal card for aliens then? It's basically the same thing as this Real ID.

[mawilson 2,133]

Then it seems we can agree. Do you still have reservations with a universal card for aliens then? It's basically the same thing as this Real ID.

I'm ok with it, if the police are not given the power to stop people at random and

demand to see their ID card (and presumably nick you if it's lost, damaged or

forgotten, which will inevitably happen to thousands of people every day).

Edited August 19, 2007 by mawilson

[Dan J 277]

Then it seems we can agree. Do you still have reservations with a universal card for aliens then? It's basically the same thing as this Real ID.

I'm ok with it, if the police are not given the power to stop people at random and

demand to see their ID card (and presumably nick you if it's lost, damaged or

forgotten, which will inevitably happen to thousands of people every day).

One step at a time, and then you fall down the slippery slope..

[mawilson 2,133]

Then it seems we can agree. Do you still have reservations with a universal card for aliens then? It's basically the same thing as this Real ID.

I'm ok with it, if the police are not given the power to stop people at random and

demand to see their ID card (and presumably nick you if it's lost, damaged or

forgotten, which will inevitably happen to thousands of people every day).

One step at a time, and then you fall down the slippery slope..

Yep, that worries me too.

[GaryC 7]

Then it seems we can agree. Do you still have reservations with a universal card for aliens then? It's basically the same thing as this Real ID.

I'm ok with it, if the police are not given the power to stop people at random and

demand to see their ID card (and presumably nick you if it's lost, damaged or

forgotten, which will inevitably happen to thousands of people every day).

One step at a time, and then you fall down the slippery slope..

We are already on a slippery slope. One where we cannot control our borders and know who is here. It started in 1986 with the amnesty bill.

[Dan J 277]

Then it seems we can agree. Do you still have reservations with a universal card for aliens then? It's basically the same thing as this Real ID.

I'm ok with it, if the police are not given the power to stop people at random and

demand to see their ID card (and presumably nick you if it's lost, damaged or

forgotten, which will inevitably happen to thousands of people every day).

One step at a time, and then you fall down the slippery slope..

We are already on a slippery slope. One where we cannot control our borders and know who is here. It started in 1986 with the amnesty bill.

No, your thinking of something else. Your nationalism clouds your view. To the point where you will likely accept a police state if it keeps out terrorism and illegal immigrants.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Societies that want to demand proof of citizenship from their residents historically don't have the best track record on civil liberties. I rather like the Bill of Rights, my rights as an American to think that the government works for me, not the other way around, and I like being able to wander down to the corner store without my ID to buy a soda. We are not supposed to trust the government to not abuse their power. "Don't worry, your husband is blond, he'll never get detained on the suspicion he's illegal" is not how I want my society run.

Fund ICE and let them do their jobs by enforcing the employment laws. You'll get all of the enforcement you need and I won't be violating the law by not pinning my ID to my clothing when I go for a run.

And how many people get asked for ID while going to buy a soda? That is an extreme and you know it..

I would like to see you try explaining your philosophy to the parents of the kids who where slaughtered in NJ?? Law and order is part of any civilized society. If Australians where suspected of committing crimes and being here illegally I would be more than happy to show them my ID, if requested.

I'm sure 9/10 fish and chip shop owners would agree.

And back to Newark again - without touching the central issue that the local police dept doesn't have the resources or manpower to deal with immigration issues on top of crime, and what's more the linkages between the police and departments that do enforce immigration offences are sparse to the point of non-existent.

[mawilson 2,133]

We are already on a slippery slope. One where we cannot control our borders and know who is here. It started in 1986 with the amnesty bill.

The problem is that the immigration laws are not being enforced today. The police can

already identify who is here legally and who is not - they are simply not doing that, and

no new card is going to magically make them do it.

The National ID card is excessive, expensive, unnecessary, unworkable and unpopular.

It has no clear purpose, and provides no guarantee against fraud. It is an answer of

search of a question.