71% Favor Requiring Foreign Visitors to Carry Universal ID Card

[GaryC 7]

Indeed. How would you tell whether someone who isn't carrying the ID is a citizen, LPR, tourist or illegal immigrant?

I think the answer is obvious - the 'universal card' would essentially be a precursor to a national ID card scheme for everyone.

What's the angst about national ID cards? I don't get it.

In a nutshell - personal privacy. Putting too much personal information in a single place, usually only accessible to outsourced private companies working on behalf of the government. I take it you've gotten one of those "we regret to inform you that a computer that may or may not have contained your personal information has been compromised" letters since you been here....? I've had 3 so far.

In reality that is an argument in favor of a national ID card. If there was a single database of everyone in the country USC and alien alike with biometric information included then ID theft would be much harder. You might have the information but without the proper thumb print the information is useless. I personally don't care if the government knows I went to the supermarket and bought bread and milk with my thumb print. It's a non issue for me.

[Heracles 417]

Hence you didn't (at all) answer the question.

Well it should be a condition of entry. That ID must be carried at all times. Someone's passport will either have a visa or the bottom portion of the VWP.

Various departments, such as SS, already have systems which can be used to determine somebody's status. A similar system can be created where police punch in a person's details to determine their status.

It is not a matter of basis. You are either here legally or you are not. I do not care about pretense to questioning.

Edited August 19, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[mawilson 2,133]

In reality that is an argument in favor of a national ID card. If there was a single database of everyone in the country USC and alien alike with biometric information included then ID theft would be much harder. You might have the information but without the proper thumb print the information is useless. I personally don't care if the government knows I went to the supermarket and bought bread and milk with my thumb print. It's a non issue for me.

From the BBC:

"A Malaysian businessman has lost a finger to car thieves impatient to get around his

Mercedes' fingerprint security system. Accountant K Kumaran had at first been forced

to start the S-class Merc, but when the carjackers wanted to start it again without having

him along, they chopped off the end of his index finger with a machete."

[GaryC 7]

In reality that is an argument in favor of a national ID card. If there was a single database of everyone in the country USC and alien alike with biometric information included then ID theft would be much harder. You might have the information but without the proper thumb print the information is useless. I personally don't care if the government knows I went to the supermarket and bought bread and milk with my thumb print. It's a non issue for me.

From the BBC:

"A Malaysian businessman has lost a finger to car thieves impatient to get around his

Mercedes' fingerprint security system. Accountant K Kumaran had at first been forced

to start the S-class Merc, but when the carjackers wanted to start it again without having

him along, they chopped off the end of his index finger with a machete."

Sure, play to the extreme. Just because there is some wild possibility then ignore the best solution. Now who is using fear?

BTW, a lot of new scanners also detect heat to guard against fake or dismembered fingers.

Edited August 19, 2007 by GaryC

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Will this ID have a photograph on it? Maybe something like the country of origin, birthdate, first and last name. And it should have a little place to have stamps to show when you entered the U.S.. And maybe it should be a booklet, so forms can be stapled in it. Like, some people are allowed to stay 90 days, and some are 180. The booklet would have room to staple that in.

And maybe we should outsource it to the person's country of origin, so their country can check to see if the person is who they say they are. We could call it... a Personally Accessible Small Sheaf, Proof Of Reasonable Travel. We'll call it a p.a.s.s.p.o.r.t. for short.

[Heracles 417]

In reality that is an argument in favor of a national ID card. If there was a single database of everyone in the country USC and alien alike with biometric information included then ID theft would be much harder. You might have the information but without the proper thumb print the information is useless. I personally don't care if the government knows I went to the supermarket and bought bread and milk with my thumb print. It's a non issue for me.

From the BBC:

"A Malaysian businessman has lost a finger to car thieves impatient to get around his

Mercedes' fingerprint security system. Accountant K Kumaran had at first been forced

to start the S-class Merc, but when the carjackers wanted to start it again without having

him along, they chopped off the end of his index finger with a machete."

Pretty hard to walk into customs with someone's finger or use someone else's finger in front of a law enforcement officer.

Australian customs now use facial recognition biometrics. Which means whenever I go home I simply place my E-Passport on a device which scans my face and then basically welcomes me home.. I would like to see someone get around that.

Edited August 19, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[Caladan 19]

Societies that want to demand proof of citizenship from their residents historically don't have the best track record on civil liberties. I rather like the Bill of Rights, my rights as an American to think that the government works for me, not the other way around, and I like being able to wander down to the corner store without my ID to buy a soda. We are not supposed to trust the government to not abuse their power. "Don't worry, your husband is blond, he'll never get detained on the suspicion he's illegal" is not how I want my society run.

Fund ICE and let them do their jobs by enforcing the employment laws. You'll get all of the enforcement you need and I won't be violating the law by not pinning my ID to my clothing when I go for a run.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Societies that want to demand proof of citizenship from their residents historically don't have the best track record on civil liberties. I rather like the Bill of Rights, my rights as an American to think that the government works for me, not the other way around, and I like being able to wander down to the corner store without my ID to buy a soda. We are not supposed to trust the government to not abuse their power. "Don't worry, your husband is blond, he'll never get detained on the suspicion he's illegal" is not how I want my society run.

Fund ICE and let them do their jobs by enforcing the employment laws. You'll get all of the enforcement you need and I won't be violating the law by not pinning my ID to my clothing when I go for a run.

F###in Aye, sister!

[mawilson 2,133]

"Your phone company knows who you talk to, your credit card company knows where you shop

and NetFlix knows what you watch. Your ISP can read your email, your cell phone can track

your movements and your supermarket can monitor your purchasing patterns. There's no

single government entity bringing this together.

Data brokers like ChoicePoint and credit bureaus like Experian aren't trying to build a police state;

they're just trying to turn a profit. Of course these companies will take advantage of a national ID;

they'd be stupid not to. And the correlations, data mining and precise categorizing they can do

is why the U.S. government buys commercial data from them. "

Face-Off: Is Big Brother a Big Deal?

[GaryC 7]

Societies that want to demand proof of citizenship from their residents historically don't have the best track record on civil liberties. I rather like the Bill of Rights, my rights as an American to think that the government works for me, not the other way around, and I like being able to wander down to the corner store without my ID to buy a soda. We are not supposed to trust the government to not abuse their power. "Don't worry, your husband is blond, he'll never get detained on the suspicion he's illegal" is not how I want my society run.

Fund ICE and let them do their jobs by enforcing the employment laws. You'll get all of the enforcement you need and I won't be violating the law by not pinning my ID to my clothing when I go for a run.

Oh yeah, big brother is coming to get you!! Using fear isn't exclusive to those that want to control the borders I see. Your already in thousands of databases and one unified one isn't going to make it any worse.

[mawilson 2,133]

Oh yeah, big brother is coming to get you!! Using fear isn't exclusive to those that want to control the borders I see. Your already in thousands of databases and one unified one isn't going to make it any worse.

Yes it will, Gary - that's the point. A thousand databases are harmless, one unified database is not.

[GaryC 7]

Oh yeah, big brother is coming to get you!! Using fear isn't exclusive to those that want to control the borders I see. Your already in thousands of databases and one unified one isn't going to make it any worse.

Yes it will, Gary - that's the point. A thousand databases are harmless, one unified database is not.

How so?

[Caladan 19]

It's okay to use fear to get people to want a national ID card (the hordes are invading, the terrorists who managed to get student visas would have been foiled by an automatic card printed at the border) but not okay to point out the risks that go along with national databases?

[Marilyn. 340]

Oh yeah, big brother is coming to get you!! Using fear isn't exclusive to those that want to control the borders I see. Your already in thousands of databases and one unified one isn't going to make it any worse.

Yes it will, Gary - that's the point. A thousand databases are harmless, one unified database is not.

How so?

having everyone's information in one big data base.. what could be wrong with that??

[mawilson 2,133]

This is what happens when you have one unified database accessible by businesses.