71% Favor Requiring Foreign Visitors to Carry Universal ID Card

[GaryC 7]

Would part of this plan be issuing U.S. citizen cards as well that must be carried at all times? I don't see how it would be of much use otherwise.

We already have ways of identifying USC's. But at the moment it's a hodge-podge of disjointed ID's. I wouldn't mind a US ID card if it means we will finally be able to stop the gatecrashers.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Awesome! So it'll be a new scannable p.a.s.s.p.o.r.t! I think they introduced those about ten years ago.

Of course, if we add biometrics, that's going to make tourism a pain. You've got a choice -- either it's just a portable I-94, or it's so complicated that we kill tourism and business by making 64 million people a year essentially file for AOS.

The system we have is fine as far as IDing legal people goes. The problem isn't that we couldn't require all visitors to carry their passport, the problem is that expecting local cops to stop people who look like immigrants instead of chasing local bad guys isn't a good use of resources. I'd rather have the cop arrest the guys who stage muggings near the bank that I want them pulling the cooks out of the pizza joint across the street.

Fund ICE so they can raid businesses. Spend the money there rather than making duplicate, portable I-94s.

Hehe, you are going to poo-poo this no matter what. Ok, but it will not change anything. This is going to happen. We are already seeing the backlash of the amnesty bill and the illegals demanding their "rights". The next election will be turned on this issue and we will find a way to control the flood. There will be a unified way to identify who is legal and who isn't. A universal card linked to an accessible to law enforcement database is the right way to go.

I tell you this much - no-one is going to push an idea that potentially risks millions of dollars worth of tourist revenue. As far as the UK goes - DHS and USCIS put back the deadline for biometric passports back a full year because the UK passport authority didn't have the systems in place to comply with it.

[Caladan 19]

GaryC, if the next elections' about immigration I'll eat my hat. There's Iraq, the war on terror, the collapse of mortgages, the flagging economy, and universal health care. The only reason the Republicans are drumming up anti-illegal sentiment is that they've proven to be failures on everything else.

And even if it is about immigration (again, eating hats), that doesn't mean we have to enact stupid laws that won't actually help enforcement. You haven't answered my question... what does the cop do after he stops Luz and her ID card has expired? Does he just make a note and call ICE? Does he lock her up in the local jail until ICE verifies that she is here legally?

[GaryC 7]

Awesome! So it'll be a new scannable p.a.s.s.p.o.r.t! I think they introduced those about ten years ago.

Of course, if we add biometrics, that's going to make tourism a pain. You've got a choice -- either it's just a portable I-94, or it's so complicated that we kill tourism and business by making 64 million people a year essentially file for AOS.

The system we have is fine as far as IDing legal people goes. The problem isn't that we couldn't require all visitors to carry their passport, the problem is that expecting local cops to stop people who look like immigrants instead of chasing local bad guys isn't a good use of resources. I'd rather have the cop arrest the guys who stage muggings near the bank that I want them pulling the cooks out of the pizza joint across the street.

Fund ICE so they can raid businesses. Spend the money there rather than making duplicate, portable I-94s.

Hehe, you are going to poo-poo this no matter what. Ok, but it will not change anything. This is going to happen. We are already seeing the backlash of the amnesty bill and the illegals demanding their "rights". The next election will be turned on this issue and we will find a way to control the flood. There will be a unified way to identify who is legal and who isn't. A universal card linked to an accessible to law enforcement database is the right way to go.

I tell you this much - no-one is going to push an idea that potentially risks millions of dollars worth of tourist revenue. As far as the UK goes - DHS and USCIS put back the deadline for biometric passports back a full year because the UK passport authority didn't have the systems in place to comply with it.

This would take the place of all of that. At the POE you already have your fingerprints and picture taken. They could have a card printer at each desk that prints the card and places the information in the database. It can't be implemented overnight but it can phased in.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Awesome! So it'll be a new scannable p.a.s.s.p.o.r.t! I think they introduced those about ten years ago.

Of course, if we add biometrics, that's going to make tourism a pain. You've got a choice -- either it's just a portable I-94, or it's so complicated that we kill tourism and business by making 64 million people a year essentially file for AOS.

The system we have is fine as far as IDing legal people goes. The problem isn't that we couldn't require all visitors to carry their passport, the problem is that expecting local cops to stop people who look like immigrants instead of chasing local bad guys isn't a good use of resources. I'd rather have the cop arrest the guys who stage muggings near the bank that I want them pulling the cooks out of the pizza joint across the street.

Fund ICE so they can raid businesses. Spend the money there rather than making duplicate, portable I-94s.

Hehe, you are going to poo-poo this no matter what. Ok, but it will not change anything. This is going to happen. We are already seeing the backlash of the amnesty bill and the illegals demanding their "rights". The next election will be turned on this issue and we will find a way to control the flood. There will be a unified way to identify who is legal and who isn't. A universal card linked to an accessible to law enforcement database is the right way to go.

I tell you this much - no-one is going to push an idea that potentially risks millions of dollars worth of tourist revenue. As far as the UK goes - DHS and USCIS put back the deadline for biometric passports back a full year because the UK passport authority didn't have the systems in place to comply with it.

This would take the place of all of that. At the POE you already have your fingerprints and picture taken. They could have a card printer at each desk that prints the card and places the information in the database. It can't be implemented overnight but it can phased in.

Sounds expensive to me when the I-94 does the same job for a fraction of the cost.

BTW - I've been here nearly 4 years and not once, ever, ever has a cop stopped me and asked me for my ID.

Also I doubt very much whether the next election will hinge solely on illegal immigration. Iraq is still a big issue for a lot of people - come September with the general's report, that will form the position for a lot of the presidential candidates.

Edited August 19, 2007 by Number 6

[GaryC 7]

Sounds expensive to me when the I-94 does the same job for a fraction of the cost.

BTW - I've been here nearly 4 years and not once, ever, ever has a cop stopped me and asked me for my ID.

It is less expensive than paying for the illegals. The i-94 doesn't do the same thing at all, it's just a piece of paper with a stamp on it. I could forge one in a matter of minutes that would fool anyone. This would be a unified, and because it would be linked to a database, a more secure way of determining a persons status. Passports with stamps and stapled in pieces of paper in it to prove status is outdated.

[Caladan 19]

Yeah, right now they're staking out positions on illegal immigration mostly because they don't want to commit to saying anything on Iraq until it's closer to the primaries. Hard to say 'Yes, I support the Iraq war' if in five months we have an abandoning-Saigon moment. Hard to say, "This is a disaster" because that's not the party line. Can't really go to battle on abortion because Guiliani's pro-choice.

Nothing left to fire up the base except good old-fashioned xenophobia.

[GaryC 7]

Also I doubt very much whether the next election will hinge solely on illegal immigration. Iraq is still a big issue for a lot of people - come September with the general's report, that will form the position for a lot of the presidential candidates.

Not solely on illegal immigration. Iraq will hopefully be sorted out by next November, it looks like it will be less of an issue by then. But regardless, illegal immigration will be a very big part of the next election and with all the candidates separated by just a few points something like immigration could very well be the tipping point.

[GaryC 7]

Yeah, right now they're staking out positions on illegal immigration mostly because they don't want to commit to saying anything on Iraq until it's closer to the primaries. Hard to say 'Yes, I support the Iraq war' if in five months we have an abandoning-Saigon moment. Hard to say, "This is a disaster" because that's not the party line. Can't really go to battle on abortion because Guiliani's pro-choice.

Nothing left to fire up the base except good old-fashioned xenophobia.

Ah, here we go again. If we want to control our border we are xenophobics. Tell that to my immigrant wife. Nice.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

Sounds expensive to me when the I-94 does the same job for a fraction of the cost.

BTW - I've been here nearly 4 years and not once, ever, ever has a cop stopped me and asked me for my ID.

It is less expensive than paying for the illegals. The i-94 doesn't do the same thing at all, it's just a piece of paper with a stamp on it. I could forge one in a matter of minutes that would fool anyone. This would be a unified, and because it would be linked to a database, a more secure way of determining a persons status. Passports with stamps and stapled in pieces of paper in it to prove status is outdated.

Last I heard the I-94 and passport were connected to a computer database. Though considering how long it takes USCIS to process some people's FBI checks, "high tech" might not be a word that applied.

[Caladan 19]

Yeah, right now they're staking out positions on illegal immigration mostly because they don't want to commit to saying anything on Iraq until it's closer to the primaries. Hard to say 'Yes, I support the Iraq war' if in five months we have an abandoning-Saigon moment. Hard to say, "This is a disaster" because that's not the party line. Can't really go to battle on abortion because Guiliani's pro-choice.

Nothing left to fire up the base except good old-fashioned xenophobia.

Ah, here we go again. If we want to control our border we are xenophobics. Tell that to my immigrant wife. Nice.

I don't think controlling the border is xenophobic. I think it makes sense.

But I think the appeal to the base is largely based in prejudice, yes, because it centers on rhetoric like 'dirty gatecrashers', 'Mexican', and 'preserving [white] America' or 'why don't they stop them when they can just see them' or 'I hate everything being in Spanish THIS IS AMERICA speak English, oh, no Chinese doesn't bother me because that's okay.' or 'they could all be diseased or gang members!' or 'we're being overrun.' Tancredo wants a freeze on LEGAL immigration, so no immigrant wife for you if he gets elected.

I really wish I were wrong, but I don't think I am.

You get a lot of token "I'm worried about all illegals, not just the Mexicans" but people sure would be upset if they got stopped and demanded to produce ID because 'I don't look like a Mexican, and I don't have to show ID to a cop without probable cause' You have a lot of people arguing that the cops 'just know' who is illegal.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

ok fred has my vote if he gets the nomination. i really don't care about any other issue in this election. this illegal immigration & "activism" in favor of it has got to stop. it makes me ill, to sit on VJ & read all the verbal diarrhea the self proclaimed "activist" keep spewing. its time for americans to quit being so pussifed about illegal immigration & quit feeling sorry for everyone thats not fortunate enough to be an american..before long being an american won't be something to be proud of or cherished.

It's pretty sickening. This is a legal immigration board and it baffles me to see liberals cry "we neeeed illegals for this country to survive". Do we? NO! We need immigrants but not illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants are a net loss.

[peejay 327]

Yeah, right now they're staking out positions on illegal immigration mostly because they don't want to commit to saying anything on Iraq until it's closer to the primaries. Hard to say 'Yes, I support the Iraq war' if in five months we have an abandoning-Saigon moment. Hard to say, "This is a disaster" because that's not the party line. Can't really go to battle on abortion because Guiliani's pro-choice.

Nothing left to fire up the base except good old-fashioned xenophobia.

Ah, here we go again. If we want to control our border we are xenophobics. Tell that to my immigrant wife. Nice.

I don't think controlling the border is xenophobic. I think it makes sense.

But I think the appeal to the base is largely based in prejudice, yes, because it centers on rhetoric like 'dirty gatecrashers', 'Mexican', and 'preserving [white] America' or 'why don't they stop them when they can just see them' or 'I hate everything being in Spanish THIS IS AMERICA speak English, oh, no Chinese doesn't bother me because that's okay.' or 'they could all be diseased or gang members!' or 'we're being overrun.' Tancredo wants a freeze on LEGAL immigration, so no immigrant wife for you if he gets elected.

I really wish I were wrong, but I don't think I am.

You get a lot of token "I'm worried about all illegals, not just the Mexicans" but people sure would be upset if they got stopped and demanded to produce ID because 'I don't look like a Mexican, and I don't have to show ID to a cop without probable cause' You have a lot of people arguing that the cops 'just know' who is illegal.

Since 80+% of illegal aliens are Hispanic, it is very easy to see that Hispanics are going to be the most affected by any crackdown on illegal aliens. And immigration policy is not about turning the USA into a carbon copy of Latin America. For some on the Left it is their Holy Grail and cause celebre', but I don't believe a vast majority of Americans want it. Whether that appeals to "the base" of one party or the other is irrelevant. It's about the direction that Americans want for our country.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Sounds expensive to me when the I-94 does the same job for a fraction of the cost.

BTW - I've been here nearly 4 years and not once, ever, ever has a cop stopped me and asked me for my ID.

It is less expensive than paying for the illegals. The i-94 doesn't do the same thing at all, it's just a piece of paper with a stamp on it. I could forge one in a matter of minutes that would fool anyone. This would be a unified, and because it would be linked to a database, a more secure way of determining a persons status. Passports with stamps and stapled in pieces of paper in it to prove status is outdated.

Last I heard the I-94 and passport were connected to a computer database. Though considering how long it takes USCIS to process some people's FBI checks, "high tech" might not be a word that applied.

Moreover we all still use paper passports, including the US. I also believe that your visa includes basic biometric info on it. Info that is held electronically and can be compared with the biometric data page on the passport (and the database attached to that).

Gary - you're essentially talking about giving every visitor to the US the equivalent level of processing for AOS. Anything less would seem rather pointless wouldn't it - given that countries that take advantage of the VWP don't have to provide information on police records and the like. More relevantly, how long do you think it will take to get this ID card? Moreover, how much do you think it will cost?

BTW - is this now the going rate for an AOS application?

$930 plus a biometrics fee of $80; the fee total is $1,010. Exceptions listed below. There is no fee for applicants who are filing Form I-485 based on having been admitted to the United States as a refugee. Applicants 79 years of age or older are not charged a biometric fee; the fee total is $930. Applicants under 14 years of age: - Filing with the I-485 application of at least one parent have a fee total of $600 - Not filing with the I-485 application of at least one parent have a fee total of $930

Edited August 19, 2007 by Number 6

[Marilyn. 340]

I don't think a lot of people here are supporting illegal immigration...

like caladan said.. what happens when a cop does pull someone over without the proper ID.. what does the cop do with the person??