71% Favor Requiring Foreign Visitors to Carry Universal ID Card

[pedroh 21]

no one is saying that we want the illegals running around freely.... but how is a card going to protect you??

like has been said a few times on this thread already...the money that would be used for this card could be better spent on other areas of preventing illegal immigration that would have more effect then the card....

Preventing illegal immigration.. How so?

People start fear mongering about Big Brother #######; When in reality all a card and a database would store is someone's basic details and whether they are a legal resident of the US or a citizen period. So all of the other BS about the government watching me in the shower and pulling me over because I am Latino is basically ridiculous.

LOL.. oh.. sorry i didnt know you knew a lot about immigration, latinos and the police/ICE.. swift plant raid in Georgia?? ahemm.. they even 'arrested'(it wasnt even a legal arrest, no warrants or stuff like that) USC's with hispanic names..

Moreover, its never ridiculous to discount the opinions of taxpaying voters who would be potentially targetted in the manner you describe.

yea, a greater good is not enough justification for that

[mawilson 2,133]

Interrelated things. There is a huge difference between someone American committing a crime to someone here illegally committing a crime. Under the status quo not only are the illegal immigrants not being punished more severely for a crime, they are actually being let off..

What is the difference?

You don't see a difference. You don't see how someone here illegally who is committing crimes is not here because they are poor but only here to continue there crime spree on Americans. You don't see anything wrong with that.

I never said there's nothing wrong with that - I just don't see why their immigration

status makes such a "huge difference". As far as law enforcement is concerned,

citizens or immigrants - legal or illegal - should be sent to prison if they commit a crime.

In the case of illegal immigrants (and possibly some legal immigrants - depending on

the severity of the crime), they should also be deported once they're done serving

their sentences. As simple as that.

[Heracles 417]

LOL.. oh.. sorry i didnt know you knew a lot about immigration, latinos and the police/ICE.. swift plant raid in Georgia?? ahemm.. they even 'arrested'(it wasnt even a legal arrest, no warrants or stuff like that) USC's with hispanic names..

Enough with the one swift raid in Georgia. So the whole country should stop arresting illegal immigrants because they might offend someone.

Pedroh I like you and respect your views. Keep in mind I also have a number of friends who are illegal immigrants currently living in the US.. The only difference is that they are good honest people trying to make a living. They live under the radar but show respect to this nation, it's laws and it's people. Living in Australia as a Wog was not easy. We where constantly harassed and even beat up by Police. But I don't go around hating them and thinking they are all out to get me because of a few bad cops. Even whenever i visit Mexico I always get searched. I must have a drug cartel look. They are doing there job.

The whole point of the card is to protect the American people. Will some people be discriminated against; well obviously we cannot rule it out. Tough enforcement of the law needs to be carried out against anyone who breaks the law who is here illegally. No American should be a victim of violence from an illegal immigrant. It is the governments responsibility to protect the American people and not the feelings of illegal immigrants..

Some people seem to confuse the US for Unicef. Like every other country out there, the US needs to start looking after it's people again..

Edited August 20, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[pedroh 21]

LOL.. oh.. sorry i didnt know you knew a lot about immigration, latinos and the police/ICE.. swift plant raid in Georgia?? ahemm.. they even 'arrested'(it wasnt even a legal arrest, no warrants or stuff like that) USC's with hispanic names..

Enough with the one swift raid in Georgia. So the whole country should stop arresting illegal immigrants because they might offend someone.

Pedroh I like you and respect your views. Keep in mind I also have a number of friends who are illegal immigrants currently living in the US.. The only difference is that they are good honest people trying to make a living. They live under the radar but show respect to this nation, it's laws and it's people. Living in Australia as a Wog was not easy. We where constantly harassed and even beat up by Police. But I don't go around hating them and thinking they are all out to get me because of a few bad cops. Even whenever i visit Mexico I always get searched. I must have a drug cartel look. They are doing there job.

The whole point of the card is to protect the American people. Will some people be discriminated against; well obviously we cannot rule it out. Tough enforcement of the law needs to be carried out against anyone who breaks the law who is here illegally. No American should be a victim of violence from an illegal immigrant. It is the governments responsibility to protect the American people.

Some people seem to confuse the US for Unicef. Like every other country out there, the US needs to start looking after it's people again..

well.. those USC's that probably will be discriminated.. are part of the US too.. are US's people.. so.. protecting Americans, while leaving out some other Americans.. doesn't sound.. fair

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Keep in mind I also have a number of friends who are illegal immigrants currently living in the US.. The only difference is that they are good honest people trying to make a living. They live under the radar but show respect to this nation, it's laws and it's people

That's a big contradiction in terms. The justification for this card is rooted in "zero tolerance for illegal aliens". You'll find that most people here have no sympathy for people who evade the immigration laws - what we are disagreeing with here is whether a biometric ID card for foreign visitors and between-status immigrants is a good idea.

[Heracles 417]

Moreover, its never ridiculous to discount the opinions of taxpaying voters who would be potentially targetted in the manner you describe.

What about the safety of the many outweighing the feelings of the few?? Seems to work in every other developed nation. Whereas in the US it is the opposite way around and has been since the 60's..

Why is it the messenger is always shot while the perpetrator is left to do as they please? Same this is happening in Iraq. The more children the terrorists deliberately kill, the more America is to blame.

Any legal latino residents should be blaming their illegal pals and not the government for trying to stop it. For doing their job that is.. Feelings was never mentioned in the constitution or bill of rights but protecting this nation and it's people from harm is. There are 12,000,000 people here illegally. That is seriously an invasion. I don't think we have even had a war with that many soldiers before..

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Moreover, its never ridiculous to discount the opinions of taxpaying voters who would be potentially targetted in the manner you describe.

What about the safety of the many outweighing the feelings of the few?? Seems to work in every other developed nation. Whereas in the US it is the opposite way around and has been since the 60's..

Why is it the messenger is always shot while the perpetrator is left to do as they please? Same this is happening in Iraq. The more children the terrorists deliberately kill, the more America is to blame.

Any legal latino residents should be blaming their illegal pals and not the government for trying to stop it. For doing their job that is.. Feelings was never mentioned in the constitution or bill of rights but protecting this nation and it's people from harm is. There are 12,000,000 people here illegally. That is seriously an invasion. I don't think we have even had a war with that many soldiers before..

How does that tie into your above post about

I also have a number of friends who are illegal immigrants currently living in the US.. The only difference is that they are good honest people trying to make a living. They live under the radar but show respect to this nation, it's laws and it's people

Are you advocating illegal immigration only for the people you like?

[Heracles 417]

Keep in mind I also have a number of friends who are illegal immigrants currently living in the US.. The only difference is that they are good honest people trying to make a living. They live under the radar but show respect to this nation, it's laws and it's people

That's a big contradiction in terms. The justification for this card is rooted in "zero tolerance for illegal aliens". You'll find that most people here have no sympathy for people who evade the immigration laws - what we are disagreeing with here is whether a biometric ID card for foreign visitors and between-status immigrants is a good idea.

No you have to set the rules in place and then strictly enforce them. Only after that can the US start to weed out who is a good person and who should be considered for residency. Anyone with any criminal record, while being here illegally, should be thrown out immediately.

Point being, you have to seal up a leaking ship before worrying about where you a heading..

[Caladan 19]

Your friends are illegal and you haven't reported them? I guess they're not Hispanic...

[mawilson 2,133]

The whole point of the card is to protect the American people. Will some people be discriminated against; well obviously we cannot rule it out. Tough enforcement of the law needs to be carried out against anyone who breaks the law who is here illegally. No American should be a victim of violence from an illegal immigrant. It is the governments responsibility to protect the American people and not the feelings of illegal immigrants..

Australia doesn't have a National ID card. The ID card idea was raised at the national

Tax Summit in 1985 and found its way into legislation the following year, but was eventually

scrapped. (BTW, the purpose of the proposed card was to fight tax evasion, not illegal

immigration.)

Within weeks of its commencement, the campaign had galvanized Australia against

the Card. Despite elements of hysteria, the average Australian came to understand that

the introduction of such a scheme would reduce freedoms and increase the power of

authorities. Indeed, "freedom" would come to mean the freedoms granted by the card.

As the Financial Review had so eloquently observed, Australia's rights and freedoms are

far more fragile than those of older counterparts. A government should be committed to

strengthening those freedoms.

As news of the specifics of the ID card legislation spread, the campaign strengthened.

If you were in employment without an ID card, it would be an offence for your employer

to pay you (Penalty $20,000). If you were then forced to resign, you could not get a new

job, as the law would make it a offence for an employer to hire a cardless person

(penalty $20,000). Farmers without ID cards could not receive payments from marketing

boards for their produce (penalty $20,000). A person without an ID card would be denied

access to a pre-existing bank account, and could not cash in investments, cannot give money

to or receive money from a solicitor, or could not receive money in unit, property or a cash

management trust.

Cardless people could not buy or rent their own home or land (penalty $5,000), nor would

benefits be paid to the unemployed, widows, supporting parents, the aged, the invalid or

the sick.

If your card is destroyed for any reason than cannot be proven as accidental, the penalty

would be $5,000 or two years imprisonment or both. A $500 penalty would be imposed if

you lost your card and failed to report the loss within twenty one days. Failure to attend a

compulsory conference if ordered to by the ID card agency would result in a penalty of

$1,000 or six months' gaol. Failure to produce your ID card on demand to the Tax Office

would invoke a penalty of $20,000.

[...]

Within weeks, a huge and well organized movement was underway, Rallies were organized

on almost a daily basis. Although these were described as "education nights" the reality

was that most were hotbeds of hostility rather than well ordered information giving sessions.

The strength of public feeling was never more clear than on the night of September 14th,

when 4,000 angry people crammed the AMOCO hall in the central New South Wales town

of Orange. One in eight of the cities population attended the meeting. Other towns responded

in a similar way.

The massive wave of public outrage was generated by scores of ad-hoc local and regional

committees from coast to coast. Rallies formed on a daily basis, culminating in a gathering

of 30,000 outside Western Australia's Parliament House. The Australian Privacy Foundation,

which had organized the campaign, had planned rallies in Sydney and Melbourne that were

tipped to have sealed off the Central Business District.

The passion of those weeks reached the point of open civil disobedience. The Labor caucus

came close to violence on one occasion, while public demonstrations against the ID card

began to turn nasty.

The letters pages of most newspapers reflected the strong feelings of Australians.

"We won't be numbers!" was a typical letters page headline, with others such as "I have no

intention of applying", "An alternative is the ball and chain", Biggest con job in our history",

"Overtones of Nazi Germany", "I will leave the country" and "Passive resistance gets my vote".

The cartoonists contributed to the strong feelings, with some constantly portraying then

Prime Minister Robert Hawke in Nazi uniform.

Opposition to Australia ID Card

[pedroh 21]

Your friends are illegal and you haven't reported them? I guess they're not Hispanic...

yeah, americans don't mind any other illegal aliens but hispanics.. el español es muy peligrosoo ayyy!

[Heracles 417]

Are you advocating illegal immigration only for the people you like?

yes that is it, you got it. Of course not.

I am advocating you seal the borders, weed out the criminals, start up a national ID card (which could be updating the SS card to function like a greencard), give all visitors at POE a visitor card and then start to process people who are now here for residency and verification.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Keep in mind I also have a number of friends who are illegal immigrants currently living in the US.. The only difference is that they are good honest people trying to make a living. They live under the radar but show respect to this nation, it's laws and it's people

That's a big contradiction in terms. The justification for this card is rooted in "zero tolerance for illegal aliens". You'll find that most people here have no sympathy for people who evade the immigration laws - what we are disagreeing with here is whether a biometric ID card for foreign visitors and between-status immigrants is a good idea.

No you have to set the rules in place and then strictly enforce them. Only after that can the US start to weed out who is a good person and who should be considered for residency. Anyone with any criminal record, while being here illegally, should be thrown out immediately.

Point being, you have to seal up a leaking ship before worrying about where you a heading..

I can tell you with some degree of certainty that the people you are backing up on this idea are completely opposed to (any) illegal immigrant being in this country, not just the ones that have committed crimes. And the idea behind this card scheme is weeding out who is legal from who isn't. Its not hard to see the reasoning.

That said - I just don't think it will work. It will be expensive, overly bureaucratic and will do nothing to address the enforcement issue.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Are you advocating illegal immigration only for the people you like?

yes that is it, you got it. Of course not.

I am advocating you seal the borders, weed out the criminals, start up a national ID card (which could be updating the SS card to function like a greencard), give all visitors at POE a visitor card and then start to process people who are now here for residency and verification.

So you support amnesty?

[Heracles 417]

The whole point of the card is to protect the American people. Will some people be discriminated against; well obviously we cannot rule it out. Tough enforcement of the law needs to be carried out against anyone who breaks the law who is here illegally. No American should be a victim of violence from an illegal immigrant. It is the governments responsibility to protect the American people and not the feelings of illegal immigrants..

To the contrary illegal immigration is not a problem in Aus.. If it where a problem the appropriate laws would be created to deal with it.

Australia has also enacted Federal Privacy laws to prevent the breaches Number_6 has mentioned. Which means anyone responsible faces huge fines and jail time, including management. Absolutely none of your information can be passed on to someone else without your permission.