71% Favor Requiring Foreign Visitors to Carry Universal ID Card

[Marilyn. 340]

Probable cause for what? This is going to be like the 'arrest them for aiding and abetting' bit. "Aiding and abetting what?" "Oh, just generalized aiding and abetting." "And conspiracy."

Probable cause has to give rise to reasonable suspicion of specific wrongdoing. All an accent proves is that you might not have been born in the U.S., which is not a crime. Honest.

The same probable cause the police can use to pull somebody over. So if I am pulled over for speeding, a police officer should be allowed to ask for my green card. If I am here lawfully I will not have a problem handing it over, right??

sure that wouldn't be a problem.... or you could show your passport etc....

I am really confuzzled why we need an extra card to do the same thing as a passport and or green card does...

[Heracles 417]

An accent is probable cause? An accent?

Well yeah. If I am pulled over by a cop I would almost expect to be asked to prove that I am here lawfully. With a national ID card or my green card I can do this in about 10 seconds.

if you're already pulled.. it's different than pulling your or trying to ID you just because you have an accent.. there's no probable cause just because you're called Jose or Mohammed and have a funny accent..

I am saying if you are pulled over in general. How many people are pulled over because they are called Jose or Mohammed?? Police must have bionic-man vision..

Consider the US is such a safe place with so little crime I am sure the police, who have nothing better to do, will pull over Jose Rodriguez to find out if he is legal. Come on now..

[Caladan 19]

Probable cause for what? This is going to be like the 'arrest them for aiding and abetting' bit. "Aiding and abetting what?" "Oh, just generalized aiding and abetting." "And conspiracy."

Probable cause has to give rise to reasonable suspicion of specific wrongdoing. All an accent proves is that you might not have been born in the U.S., which is not a crime. Honest.

The same probable cause the police can use to pull somebody over. So if I am pulled over for speeding, a police officer should be allowed to ask for my green card. If I am here lawfully I will not have a problem handing it over, right??

again is not after you've done something.. is pulling you over just because you look foreigner.. not because you were speeding or drunk driving

Because you were speeding, they are permitted to ask for your driving identification (but you wouldn't have to volunteer your green card.) Again, specific occasion of wrongdoing. Very different from the cop stopping you on the street while you are doing nothing wrong -- not even speaking -- and demanding your ID because he thinks you have an accent.

Speeding is illegal. Having an accent isn't. Different situations.

[pedroh 21]

An accent is probable cause? An accent?

Well yeah. If I am pulled over by a cop I would almost expect to be asked to prove that I am here lawfully. With a national ID card or my green card I can do this in about 10 seconds.

if you're already pulled.. it's different than pulling your or trying to ID you just because you have an accent.. there's no probable cause just because you're called Jose or Mohammed and have a funny accent..

I am saying if you are pulled over in general. How many people are pulled over because they are called Jose or Mohammed?? Police must have bionic-man vision..

Consider the US is such a safe place with so little crime I am sure the police, who have nothing better to do, will pull over Jose Rodriguez to find out if he is legal. Come on now..

oh they do.. go tho little towns around HWY 95 close to the NC/SC border... you'll see how many amigos get pulled just cuz.. i've heard the lamest of excuses (no htey havent pulled me) to pull the hispanic drivers..

[Marilyn. 340]

my hubby got pulled over the other day because the police officer said he thought he looked like someone else...

of course he said that he pulled us over because the brake light in the back window wasn't working but then he said the real reason was because he thought David looked like someone they were looking for...

Edited August 20, 2007 by MarilynP

[Dan J 277]

An accent is probable cause? An accent?

Well yeah. If I am pulled over by a cop I would almost expect to be asked to prove that I am here lawfully. With a national ID card or my green card I can do this in about 10 seconds.

if you're already pulled.. it's different than pulling your or trying to ID you just because you have an accent.. there's no probable cause just because you're called Jose or Mohammed and have a funny accent..

I am saying if you are pulled over in general. How many people are pulled over because they are called Jose or Mohammed?? Police must have bionic-man vision..

Consider the US is such a safe place with so little crime I am sure the police, who have nothing better to do, will pull over Jose Rodriguez to find out if he is legal. Come on now..

Thats what they said about the Patriot Act, but it was still misused. Its a slippery slope.

[Heracles 417]

Probable cause for what? This is going to be like the 'arrest them for aiding and abetting' bit. "Aiding and abetting what?" "Oh, just generalized aiding and abetting." "And conspiracy."

Probable cause has to give rise to reasonable suspicion of specific wrongdoing. All an accent proves is that you might not have been born in the U.S., which is not a crime. Honest.

The same probable cause the police can use to pull somebody over. So if I am pulled over for speeding, a police officer should be allowed to ask for my green card. If I am here lawfully I will not have a problem handing it over, right??

sure that wouldn't be a problem.... or you could show your passport etc....

I am really confuzzled why we need an extra card to do the same thing as a passport and or green card does...

I think the whole point of the card is for authorities to be able to quickly verify someone's status. It is a simple standardized measure. Anyone who does not carry the card and cannot produce it later on should be sent to ICE for further verification. 99.9% of Americans should not have a problem. Black, Caucasian, Hispanic, Asian whatever. Your either in a country legally or you are not.

Edited August 20, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[Caladan 19]

An accent is probable cause? An accent?

Well yeah. If I am pulled over by a cop I would almost expect to be asked to prove that I am here lawfully. With a national ID card or my green card I can do this in about 10 seconds.

if you're already pulled.. it's different than pulling your or trying to ID you just because you have an accent.. there's no probable cause just because you're called Jose or Mohammed and have a funny accent..

I am saying if you are pulled over in general. How many people are pulled over because they are called Jose or Mohammed?? Police must have bionic-man vision..

Consider the US is such a safe place with so little crime I am sure the police, who have nothing better to do, will pull over Jose Rodriguez to find out if he is legal. Come on now..

You're the one that's saying 'an accent is probable cause.' That phrase has a specific meaning, which is why we're taking you to say, "If the police hear you have an accent they have a right to demand your ID because they have a reason to suspect you of a crime."

[mawilson 2,133]

I think the whole point of the card is for authorities to be able to quickly verify someone's status.

Ok, the traffic cop who stopped you for speeding has identified you as an illegal alien.

What next?

[Heracles 417]

Because you were speeding, they are permitted to ask for your driving identification (but you wouldn't have to volunteer your green card.) Again, specific occasion of wrongdoing. Very different from the cop stopping you on the street while you are doing nothing wrong -- not even speaking -- and demanding your ID because he thinks you have an accent.

Speeding is illegal. Having an accent isn't. Different situations.

and when has a cop stopped someone in a street and asked them to produce ID based on their accent. Nonetheless, someone here legally in such an extreme situation would simple show their ID card and be sent off.

[Heracles 417]

my hubby got pulled over the other day because the police officer said he thought he looked like someone else...

of course he said that he pulled us over because the brake light in the back window wasn't working but then he said the real reason was because he thought David looked like someone they were looking for...

I got pulled over in Tijuana because they thought I was a drug dealer. So what. They checked me out and then said move along. Have not thought about it since. It is clearly the police doing their job.

Edited August 20, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[Dan J 277]

Because you were speeding, they are permitted to ask for your driving identification (but you wouldn't have to volunteer your green card.) Again, specific occasion of wrongdoing. Very different from the cop stopping you on the street while you are doing nothing wrong -- not even speaking -- and demanding your ID because he thinks you have an accent.

Speeding is illegal. Having an accent isn't. Different situations.

and when has a cop stopped someone in a street and asked them to produce ID based on their accent. Nonetheless, someone here legally in such an extreme situation would simple show their ID card and be sent off.

Are you going to require all police to carry verification devices to check if the card isn't fake? How would a cop know if the real card wasn't fraudulently acquired.

[Heracles 417]

You're the one that's saying 'an accent is probable cause.' That phrase has a specific meaning, which is why we're taking you to say, "If the police hear you have an accent they have a right to demand your ID because they have a reason to suspect you of a crime."

You guys have an uncanny talent of not listening to what someone is saying. If someone is pulled over for XYZ, the police should have a right to ask for a person residency status period. I am not saying they should pull people over based on their accents or looks..

Edited August 20, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

An accent is probable cause? An accent?

Well yeah. If I am pulled over by a cop I would almost expect to be asked to prove that I am here lawfully. With a national ID card or my green card I can do this in about 10 seconds.

if you're already pulled.. it's different than pulling your or trying to ID you just because you have an accent.. there's no probable cause just because you're called Jose or Mohammed and have a funny accent..

I am saying if you are pulled over in general. How many people are pulled over because they are called Jose or Mohammed?? Police must have bionic-man vision..

Consider the US is such a safe place with so little crime I am sure the police, who have nothing better to do, will pull over Jose Rodriguez to find out if he is legal. Come on now..

oh they do.. go tho little towns around HWY 95 close to the NC/SC border... you'll see how many amigos get pulled just cuz.. i've heard the lamest of excuses (no htey havent pulled me) to pull the hispanic drivers..

Well according to this the pull-over rate is more or less the same. That's surprising to me - but without looking at the study's methodology its hard to critique. It does say though that blacks and hispanics are more often subject to search and arrest.

[Heracles 417]

Because you were speeding, they are permitted to ask for your driving identification (but you wouldn't have to volunteer your green card.) Again, specific occasion of wrongdoing. Very different from the cop stopping you on the street while you are doing nothing wrong -- not even speaking -- and demanding your ID because he thinks you have an accent.

Speeding is illegal. Having an accent isn't. Different situations.

and when has a cop stopped someone in a street and asked them to produce ID based on their accent. Nonetheless, someone here legally in such an extreme situation would simple show their ID card and be sent off.

Are you going to require all police to carry verification devices to check if the card isn't fake? How would a cop know if the real card wasn't fraudulently acquired.

yes. Why not? Can someone easily fake the new green cards??

Edited August 20, 2007 by Boo-Yah!