71% Favor Requiring Foreign Visitors to Carry Universal ID Card

[pedroh 21]

There's a difference between being asked to verify your ID in order to receive a service from a private contractor and being asked to verify your ID in order to keep from getting arrested by the government. It's not being melodramatic to point out that the only reason you all are supporting it is that you know you'll never be stopped or harassed.

If they were after your guns, or if you thought there was a risk they'd knock on your door, you'd be all about probable cause and private rights, too. Didn't you all praise the thread the other day about the gun owners knowing exactly how much information they were required to give the cops? Because they knew they could protect their privacy? Why doesn't that apply here? Because it doesn't apply to you?

they know, they just wanna avoid the real issue.. of course im not gonna go all ACLU when they want to ask for my ID when buying liquor, or when a cop pulls me for speeding.. but if their probable cause, is that i look hispanic therefore a probable illegal... that's the ridiculous part of this ID thing..

[Heracles 417]

Yeah, 'the American people want a crackdown' doesn't mean 'any old idea I can call a crackdown, even if it would be completely redundant with passports, will become REALITY.'

Something is better than nothing.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Yeah, 'the American people want a crackdown' doesn't mean 'any old idea I can call a crackdown, even if it would be completely redundant with passports, will become REALITY.'

Something is better than nothing.

Something would be working with and fixing the institutions and programmes we already have, rather than reinventing the wheel. It isn't hard to understand...

[Heracles 417]

while doing little to change the core problems.

and what core problems are they? I never realized America had become the world's piggy bank and poverty fighter..

[Dan J 277]

How do you know the status they verified is correct? The legal system doesn't take sorta correct as an absolute.

It is sad to see that some Americans are more concerned about rights and someone being asked for ID than preventing murders and violence committed by illegal immigrants. the whole point of a POE card would be to make it harder for illegal immigrants to live here.

Even criminals have rights in this country. Go back home if you don't like that.

[mawilson 2,133]

Since requiring aliens to carry a card only applies to aliens then you can't frame the question with us losing any part of our privacy.

Well - no - because simply requiring aliens to carry an ID card is useless, unless you

want to enforce the requirement by giving the police powers to stop and demand ID,

which would then apply to aliens and citizens alike.

[Marilyn. 340]

Maybe a bit harder, just need a few corrupt employees in the National ID program and well free National Ids for all. You can be a citizen for a bit of a bribe to the right person. You really want to trust a process like that?

So what is the alternative?? do nothing and pretend the problem will go away. The US already tried that; hence the status quo..

Give more money to ICE to do their job. We will have to anyway, why do we need National ID to go with it?

Do their job? lol How are they supposed to do that without being able to quickly verify someone's status.

It is like the ACLU saying we want you to catch the terrorists; well as long as you don't monitor American's communications..

Forget it. No matter what we say there will be some that find some sort of flaw. They are the enablers and can't be talked out of it. I can take solace in the knowledge that a large majority of people agree with me. That means it is likely going to happen regardless of what these guys say.

Right, I bet if you asked a different question, like how do you feel about giving up your privacy to the government, you would likely 71% in the opposite direction. Polls are meaningless especially since its nearly impossible to ask a question that doesn't have some kind of bias.

Since requiring aliens to carry a card only applies to aliens then you can't frame the question with us losing any part of our privacy.

But they already do, its called a passport.

yea, passports nowadays are scanable and I am sure it as all the pertinent info on it.... why not have people show that as proof of their status??

Because at this point Luz couldn't do that. Her I-94 and visa have expired. Besides, most people don't carry their passports with them. The card could be carried because all it would take is a quick database search to replace it.

but the passport is scanable and I am sure if they scan it it will show her status...

[Heracles 417]

Something would be working with and fixing the institutions and programmes we already have, rather than reinventing the wheel. It isn't hard to understand...

Fixing in what way?

[GaryC 7]

Yeah, 'the American people want a crackdown' doesn't mean 'any old idea I can call a crackdown, even if it would be completely redundant with passports, will become REALITY.'

This wasn't some arbitrary question by some obscure web poll. This was a Rassmunsun poll that asked about a specific proposal by Guilliani.

By a 71% to 16% margin, voters also favor a proposal that would require all foreign visitors to carry a universal identification card as proposed by another GOP Presidential hopeful, Rudy Giuliani. Seventy-four percent (74%) also favor the creation and funding of a central database to track all foreign visitors in the United States.

[Heracles 417]

but the passport is scanable and I am sure if they scan it it will show her status...

What about illegal immigrants? How scanable are their passports?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

while doing little to change the core problems.

and what core problems are they? I never realized America had become the world's piggy bank and poverty fighter..

The core problems being the way the chronic underfunding of agencies like ICE, and the way they interact with law enforcement.

I thought you said you didn't see much point in tourists having these cards...

[mawilson 2,133]

Yeah, 'the American people want a crackdown' doesn't mean 'any old idea I can call a crackdown, even if it would be completely redundant with passports, will become REALITY.'

Something is better than nothing.

That's where you're wrong. Sometimes no solution is better than throwing the baby out with the bath water.

[Marilyn. 340]

but the passport is scanable and I am sure if they scan it it will show her status...

What about illegal immigrants? How scanable are their passports?

thats the point... if they don't have a passport... they might be illegal....

illegals wouldn't have a card either would they??

Edited August 20, 2007 by MarilynP

[Caladan 19]

Gary, we're rehashing it, but they're not going to give Luz an ID card that doesn't expire at the same time the I-94 does. They're not going to extend it indefinitely, and the best case is that it becomes another form on AOS so they have 90 days to update your ID card just like they have 90 days to authorize you for work. Too many worries about fraudulent fiances running off to give them a card that says 'you're here legally for six months.'

So we'll increase the costs and times at POEs (it'll be like the DMV) and the only benefit will be that the card fits in a wallet. I'd rather spend that money on upgrading the computer systems.

[Dan J 277]

Maybe a bit harder, just need a few corrupt employees in the National ID program and well free National Ids for all. You can be a citizen for a bit of a bribe to the right person. You really want to trust a process like that?

So what is the alternative?? do nothing and pretend the problem will go away. The US already tried that; hence the status quo..

Give more money to ICE to do their job. We will have to anyway, why do we need National ID to go with it?

Do their job? lol How are they supposed to do that without being able to quickly verify someone's status.

It is like the ACLU saying we want you to catch the terrorists; well as long as you don't monitor American's communications..

Forget it. No matter what we say there will be some that find some sort of flaw. They are the enablers and can't be talked out of it. I can take solace in the knowledge that a large majority of people agree with me. That means it is likely going to happen regardless of what these guys say.

Right, I bet if you asked a different question, like how do you feel about giving up your privacy to the government, you would likely 71% in the opposite direction. Polls are meaningless especially since its nearly impossible to ask a question that doesn't have some kind of bias.

Since requiring aliens to carry a card only applies to aliens then you can't frame the question with us losing any part of our privacy.

But they already do, its called a passport.

yea, passports nowadays are scanable and I am sure it as all the pertinent info on it.... why not have people show that as proof of their status??

Because at this point Luz couldn't do that. Her I-94 and visa have expired. Besides, most people don't carry their passports with them. The card could be carried because all it would take is a quick database search to replace it.

Yup, and a card will also show that her status here has expired. If your going to require people to carry this card, why not just skip that and expect people to carry their passport? It serves the same purpose does it not?