71% Favor Requiring Foreign Visitors to Carry Universal ID Card

[Caladan 19]

pedroh's got a point. I'm never going to be stopped and harassed by the police. I'm not Hispanic, I'm blondish, very pale, I don't have an accent. It would be sort of dumb for me to get up on my high horse and say "I don't mind the new law, and I would show my ID if asked and I wouldn't mind being detained I have nothing to fear!" because when push comes to shove, I know the cops would target Hispanic neighborhoods and Muslim immigrant communities.

And tourism is a big deal. They pushed back the passport requirement for Americans travelling by air to Canada and Mexico past the summer travel season.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Cost is a prime consideration - especially if you're talking about rolling this out to include tourists on 2-week holidays.

A passport with the proper visa should be sufficient for tourists. For everyone else they should be able to prove their eligibility, if requested, to live and travel in this country. All permanent residents and temporary residents should carry the appropriate ID.

That's not what he's suggesting though. He wants everyone to carry these cards - including people here on vacation.

That requires a (really) massive data collection programme, and a cost that will either be shouldered by the visitor or (most likely) subsidised by US taxpayers who will likely have to pay for the privilege of owning one of these cards. What's the current going rate on an LPR application or application for replacement green card? A lot...

Edited August 20, 2007 by Number 6

[Heracles 417]

Cost is a prime consideration - especially if you're talking about rolling this out to include tourists on 2-week holidays.

A passport with the proper visa should be sufficient for tourists. For everyone else they should be able to prove their eligibility, if requested, to live and travel in this country. All permanent residents and temporary residents should carry the appropriate ID.

That's not what he's suggesting though. He wants everyone to carry these cards - including people here on vacation.

That requires a (really) massive data collection programme, and a cost that will either be shouldered by the visitor or (most likely) subsidised by US taxpayers who will likely have to pay for the privilege of owning one of these cards. What's the current going rate on an LPR application or application for replacement green card? A lot...

For people on vacation it is silly and costly. But for everyone else it is a good idea. It could be integrated into drivers licenses or existing state ID cards.. All it takes is a new field on a drivers license indicating residency status; with built it biometrics for verification.

Edited August 20, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Cost is a prime consideration - especially if you're talking about rolling this out to include tourists on 2-week holidays.

A passport with the proper visa should be sufficient for tourists. For everyone else they should be able to prove their eligibility, if requested, to live and travel in this country. All permanent residents and temporary residents should carry the appropriate ID.

That's not what he's suggesting though. He wants everyone to carry these cards - including people here on vacation.

That requires a (really) massive data collection programme, and a cost that will either be shouldered by the visitor or (most likely) subsidised by US taxpayers who will likely have to pay for the privilege of owning one of these cards. What's the current going rate on an LPR application or application for replacement green card? A lot...

For people on vacation it is silly and costly. But for everyone else it is a good idea. It could be integrated into drivers licenses or existing state ID cards.. All it takes is a new field on a drivers license indicating residency status; with built it biometrics for verification.

All of which would make the need for a universal ID card rather redundant.

More than that though - what's wrong with properly funding ICE and Homeland Security before we go off half-cocked and start bringing in complicated new measures for ID cards which are unenforceable and would be of questionable value. That the American people 'want this' (according to the poll) doesn't mean it will happen - as someone will inevitably have to do a feasibility study or cost-benefit analysis on whether the idea is workable. Civil liberties questions aside - its more plausible to bring this in this sort of programme specifically for US citizens that it is for every Tom, ####### and Harry who visits for a week or 6 months. That said - it will be a tough battle to get something like that through both the upper and lower houses as well as the Supreme Court.

Edited August 20, 2007 by Number 6

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

As an afterthought they already do include immigration status on drivers licences. At least they do in New Jersey. My current licence (renewed before I got my 10 year green card) is only valid for a year and has "Temporary Immigrant Status" written across it...

[pedroh 21]

pedroh's got a point. I'm never going to be stopped and harassed by the police. I'm not Hispanic, I'm blondish, very pale, I don't have an accent. It would be sort of dumb for me to get up on my high horse and say "I don't mind the new law, and I would show my ID if asked and I wouldn't mind being detained I have nothing to fear!" because when push comes to shove, I know the cops would target Hispanic neighborhoods and Muslim immigrant communities.

And tourism is a big deal. They pushed back the passport requirement for Americans travelling by air to Canada and Mexico past the summer travel season.

they did.. the famous swift raid in georgia.. illegals or not, they targeted a hispanic neighborhood, and even arrested some usc's who happened to had latino last names.. then they were like 'ohh.. our bad, you're not really illegals'...

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

pedroh's got a point. I'm never going to be stopped and harassed by the police. I'm not Hispanic, I'm blondish, very pale, I don't have an accent. It would be sort of dumb for me to get up on my high horse and say "I don't mind the new law, and I would show my ID if asked and I wouldn't mind being detained I have nothing to fear!" because when push comes to shove, I know the cops would target Hispanic neighborhoods and Muslim immigrant communities.

And tourism is a big deal. They pushed back the passport requirement for Americans travelling by air to Canada and Mexico past the summer travel season.

they did.. the famous swift raid in georgia.. illegals or not, they targeted a hispanic neighborhood, and even arrested some usc's who happened to had latino last names.. then they were like 'ohh.. our bad, you're not really illegals'...

But you're not supposed to be angry at them right - because its the fault of illegal immigrants that law-abiding 'swarthy-looking' USCs get targeted and inconvenienced

[pedroh 21]

pedroh's got a point. I'm never going to be stopped and harassed by the police. I'm not Hispanic, I'm blondish, very pale, I don't have an accent. It would be sort of dumb for me to get up on my high horse and say "I don't mind the new law, and I would show my ID if asked and I wouldn't mind being detained I have nothing to fear!" because when push comes to shove, I know the cops would target Hispanic neighborhoods and Muslim immigrant communities.

And tourism is a big deal. They pushed back the passport requirement for Americans travelling by air to Canada and Mexico past the summer travel season.

they did.. the famous swift raid in georgia.. illegals or not, they targeted a hispanic neighborhood, and even arrested some usc's who happened to had latino last names.. then they were like 'ohh.. our bad, you're not really illegals'...

But you're not supposed to be angry at them right - because its the fault of illegal immigrants that law-abiding 'swarthy-looking' USCs get targeted and inconvenienced

LOL

it's their fault cuz they live in those neighborhoods full of 'rapists and drug dealers'

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Its interesting that when you hear people blow off that argument - that they are not the ones who would be targetted and penalised by those policies. Even if the majority of illegal immigrants are of hispanic origin (I don't doubt that this is the case) is it justified treating certain USCs as second-class citizens based on how they look?

Can't break an ommelette without breaking eggs. Just make sure the eggs that are broken are someone elses.

[mawilson 2,133]

No one is going to pull you over just to see your ID. That isn't what anyone is talking about here. Stop playing the race card because it is tired, old and it doesn't work anymore.

Actually, Gary, pedroh is absolutely right. When the police are given wide powers to stop

anyone -- whether or not they are acting suspiciously -- and demand ID, minority groups

are always hit the hardest.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

No one is going to pull you over just to see your ID. That isn't what anyone is talking about here. Stop playing the race card because it is tired, old and it doesn't work anymore.

Actually, Gary, pedroh is absolutely right. When the police are given wide powers to stop

anyone -- whether or not they are acting suspiciously -- and demand ID, minority groups

are always hit the hardest.

Happened in the UK with the sus laws of the 1960s. Institutional racism didn't begin with the Stephen Lawrence case.

[GaryC 7]

Cost is a prime consideration - especially if you're talking about rolling this out to include tourists on 2-week holidays.

A passport with the proper visa should be sufficient for tourists. For everyone else they should be able to prove their eligibility, if requested, to live and travel in this country. All permanent residents and temporary residents should carry the appropriate ID.

That's not what he's suggesting though. He wants everyone to carry these cards - including people here on vacation.

That requires a (really) massive data collection programme, and a cost that will either be shouldered by the visitor or (most likely) subsidised by US taxpayers who will likely have to pay for the privilege of owning one of these cards. What's the current going rate on an LPR application or application for replacement green card? A lot...

You guys are acting like this is some big deal, it isn't. When Robin was registered in school last week we were there with several hundred people. They took his name, entered his information in a computer, took his picture with a web cam and printed out his card in about 3 minutes. The card had all his information on it a bar code and his picture. If a small town high school can do this don't you think we could do the same thing at the POE's? Scan the persons passport and visa, take his picture and fingerprint and print out the card. Hand him the card and tell him to carry it with him at all times. When he leaves take the card back and update the database by scanning the card.

You guys make this sound like it would take a major crash project on the order of the moon landings for God sakes. All your really doing is pleading for the enablers.

Edited August 20, 2007 by GaryC

[Heracles 417]

So what should America do? Just sit here and take it; as they seem to do with every other issue to shut small groups up..

Is it more important to prevent one of many murders committed by illegal immigrants, such as the kids slaughtered in NJ or to worry whether a pedroh's feelings are hurt because he is asked to produce ID. Maybe we have different priorities but I care more about a person's life than a someone being asked to show Id.

I am always sent for secondary security checks when I travel overseas. You don't see me crying do you. I would rather everyone else be safer than crying about being inconvenienced for 5 minutes..

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

So what should America do? Just sit here and take it; as they seem to do with every other issue to shut small groups up..

Is it more important to prevent one of many murders committed by illegal immigrants, such as the kids slaughtered in NJ or to worry whether a pedroh's feelings are hurt because he is asked to produce ID. Maybe we have different priorities but I care more about a person's life than a someone being asked to show Id.

I am always sent for secondary security checks when I travel overseas. You don't see me crying do you. I would rather everyone else be safer than crying about being inconvenienced for 5 minutes..

America - includes minorities as well - however convenient it becomes to cut them out of that definition merely to justify discrimination.

[Heracles 417]

You guys are acting like this is some big deal, it isn't. When Robin was registered in school last week we were there with several hundred people. They took his name, entered his information in a computer, took his picture with a web cam and printed out his card in about 3 minutes. The card had all his information on it a bar code and his picture. If a small town high school can do this don't you think we could do the same thing at the POE's? Scan the persons passport and visa, take his picture and fingerprint and print out the card. Hand him the card and tell him to carry it with him at all times. When he leaves take the card back and update the database by scanning the card.

You guys make this sound like it would take a major crash project on the order of the moon landings for God sakes. All your really doing is pleading for the enablers.

Ahh I see what you are saying. So at POE you are basically issued a card stating the time you are legally permitted to be in the US and the type of Visa you are on; with your Photo and a barcode which allows other authorities access to bring up your details.. Even if they charged a $10 fee for it, it would definitely be reasonable..