71% Favor Requiring Foreign Visitors to Carry Universal ID Card

[GaryC 7]

so just because you are Hispanic you should pay for what the illegal immigrants have done??

my hubby is Hispanic... so it is ok for him to get pulled over just because he his Hispanic and they might suspect him of being illegal??

agree..

so becase the illegals are hispanic.. the US has the right to pull me more than other immigrants?? that's fukced up, from any point of view.. i hope they fukcin pull me.. oh.. lawsuits are gonna fly

Oh yeah Pedroh, play the poor persecuted minority. That BS and you know it. No one is going to pull you over just to see your ID. That isn't what anyone is talking about here. Stop playing the race card because it is tired, old and it doesn't work anymore.

lol, you know gary, that the hispanic-looking people get pulled more than any other people.. just in case they 'are illegals'.. you can't deny that fact.. and if u deny it, u dont live in the real world.. back where i used to live in Lumberton, cops would pull latinos just because, 'cuz they were playing loud music' 'cuz they dont speak english' 'cuz they were driving late at night'.. you really dont know how does it work in the small towns and hicksvillle usa's.. rather than in the big cities where they can get more protection

Yeah right. I am a babe in the woods. The simple fact is if your hunting rabbits you don't look in trees. The illegal problem is mostly from Latinos so that is who will be looked at first. If you don't like it don't blame the government, blame your brother Latinos. They are the ones that are bringing this down on you.

sigh...

so as long as it doesn't bother you or your relatives.. it's ok to implement suchs laws.. you know, everybody knows here.. that the latino brothers (or anybody who looks 'mexican') will be carded, or pulled, more than other nationalities..

why don't we say it's a 'latino legal ID' or 'muslim non terrorist ID' card.. instead of a Universal ID card.... the law, once and again, have been not efficient in identifying potential illegals.. they just look for 'mexicans' and 'muslims'.. oh.. what a big fukcin system..

Well Pedroh, since 80+% of the illegal aliens in the USA are Hispanic I would imagine that any crackdown on illegal aliens will impact Hispanics more than any other group. So what? What you sow is what you reap.

Most of the illegal aliens are Mexicans...so within the Hispanic catagory they will be arrested and deported in greater numbers than Guatamalans. So what? What you sow is what you reap.

Over and over you try to push this concept that any enforcement of immigration laws is discrimination against Hispanics. Well...Hispanics are the worst violators of American immigration laws. If you wanna play you gotta pay.

That said...immigration laws can be enforced without specifically targeting Hispanics, but since most of the violators are Hispanic...they will be arrested and deported more than any other group. So what?

If you can't do the time...don't do the crime. Don't play the race card when it is totally irrelevant to the issue. Enforcement of the law can easily be done without arbitrary street sweeps and mass violations of civil rights. After 20 years of non-enforcement of existing laws some people may cry foul. So what? It's about time the law was actually enforced and promises by the politicians actually kept!

I'm not trying to be mean...I'm just stating the obvious.

well what if im not 'reaping' or 'playing'.. i dont wanna pay for what other people did.. why should i? why should i get more ####### than other immigrants.. why dont they just make a special latino immigrant category, or i dunno, put a chip on hte legal latinos?

The solution is simple, card everyone. I am personally happy to prove my status. They can ask me anytime they want. Your acting like any Latino seen on the street will be pulled over and hassled. Just card them when they come in contact with the government and that would be fine.

yeah, card anyone, that's not a big deal.. but how can they card someone without a probable cause, just because you 'act like a latino' is not sufficient

Admit it Pedroh, you don't want any enforcement at all and your willing to play the race card because it is your only argument. Pitiful really.

[pedroh 21]

so just because you are Hispanic you should pay for what the illegal immigrants have done??

my hubby is Hispanic... so it is ok for him to get pulled over just because he his Hispanic and they might suspect him of being illegal??

agree..

so becase the illegals are hispanic.. the US has the right to pull me more than other immigrants?? that's fukced up, from any point of view.. i hope they fukcin pull me.. oh.. lawsuits are gonna fly

Oh yeah Pedroh, play the poor persecuted minority. That BS and you know it. No one is going to pull you over just to see your ID. That isn't what anyone is talking about here. Stop playing the race card because it is tired, old and it doesn't work anymore.

lol, you know gary, that the hispanic-looking people get pulled more than any other people.. just in case they 'are illegals'.. you can't deny that fact.. and if u deny it, u dont live in the real world.. back where i used to live in Lumberton, cops would pull latinos just because, 'cuz they were playing loud music' 'cuz they dont speak english' 'cuz they were driving late at night'.. you really dont know how does it work in the small towns and hicksvillle usa's.. rather than in the big cities where they can get more protection

Yeah right. I am a babe in the woods. The simple fact is if your hunting rabbits you don't look in trees. The illegal problem is mostly from Latinos so that is who will be looked at first. If you don't like it don't blame the government, blame your brother Latinos. They are the ones that are bringing this down on you.

sigh...

so as long as it doesn't bother you or your relatives.. it's ok to implement suchs laws.. you know, everybody knows here.. that the latino brothers (or anybody who looks 'mexican') will be carded, or pulled, more than other nationalities..

why don't we say it's a 'latino legal ID' or 'muslim non terrorist ID' card.. instead of a Universal ID card.... the law, once and again, have been not efficient in identifying potential illegals.. they just look for 'mexicans' and 'muslims'.. oh.. what a big fukcin system..

Well Pedroh, since 80+% of the illegal aliens in the USA are Hispanic I would imagine that any crackdown on illegal aliens will impact Hispanics more than any other group. So what? What you sow is what you reap.

Most of the illegal aliens are Mexicans...so within the Hispanic catagory they will be arrested and deported in greater numbers than Guatamalans. So what? What you sow is what you reap.

Over and over you try to push this concept that any enforcement of immigration laws is discrimination against Hispanics. Well...Hispanics are the worst violators of American immigration laws. If you wanna play you gotta pay.

That said...immigration laws can be enforced without specifically targeting Hispanics, but since most of the violators are Hispanic...they will be arrested and deported more than any other group. So what?

If you can't do the time...don't do the crime. Don't play the race card when it is totally irrelevant to the issue. Enforcement of the law can easily be done without arbitrary street sweeps and mass violations of civil rights. After 20 years of non-enforcement of existing laws some people may cry foul. So what? It's about time the law was actually enforced and promises by the politicians actually kept!

I'm not trying to be mean...I'm just stating the obvious.

well what if im not 'reaping' or 'playing'.. i dont wanna pay for what other people did.. why should i? why should i get more ####### than other immigrants.. why dont they just make a special latino immigrant category, or i dunno, put a chip on hte legal latinos?

The solution is simple, card everyone. I am personally happy to prove my status. They can ask me anytime they want. Your acting like any Latino seen on the street will be pulled over and hassled. Just card them when they come in contact with the government and that would be fine.

yeah, card anyone, that's not a big deal.. but how can they card someone without a probable cause, just because you 'act like a latino' is not sufficient

Admit it Pedroh, you don't want any enforcement at all and your willing to play the race card because it is your only argument. Pitiful really.

again...

im not defending all the latinos.. im just talking about ME, i dont wanna be inconvenienced more than enought just because of profiling, or bs like that.. i don't care if there are no more sanctuary cities, or whatever, if i dont commit a crime, or do any sh!t, the police and state should leave me alone.. period..

its selfish but true.. i care about me, and my family, period..

why would i care about enforcement? are you implying that i'm illegal, or that i have illegal relatives? that's what you wanna say?

Edited August 19, 2007 by pedroh

[Heracles 417]

yeah, card anyone, that's not a big deal.. but how can they card someone without a probable cause, just because you 'act like a latino' is not sufficient

Admit it Pedroh, you don't want any enforcement at all and your willing to play the race card because it is your only argument. Pitiful really.

exactly.

Is America the bad guy trying to enforce their laws or the illegal immigrants who mostly happen to be hispanc..

[pedroh 21]

yeah, card anyone, that's not a big deal.. but how can they card someone without a probable cause, just because you 'act like a latino' is not sufficient

Admit it Pedroh, you don't want any enforcement at all and your willing to play the race card because it is your only argument. Pitiful really.

exactly.

Is America the bad guy trying to enforce their laws or the illegal immigrants who mostly happen to be hispanc..

again...

im not defending all the latinos.. im just talking about ME, i dont wanna be inconvenienced more than enought just because of profiling, or bs like that.. i don't care if there are no more sanctuary cities, or whatever, if i dont commit a crime, or do any sh!t, the police and state should leave me alone.. period..

its selfish but true.. i care about me, and my family, period..

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think we should talk specifics. What exact circumstances would entail a person being singled out and required to produce ID?

So far I've seen plenty of assumption about random police sweeps. How exactly would this be enforced?

When you rent a house, when you apply for a job, when your pulled over for speeding, when your arrested for any crime, when you apply for government benefits ect. There are plenty of opportunities without a gestapo style sweep of a neighborhood. If you combine that with a controlled border and stiff penalties for hiring an illegal the problem will be solved a lot quicker than you might think.

Which leads to the second question of who will do the checking.

Then the third question. How much will it cost? Given that this would apply to temporary visitors (including tourists) I'd say that's there's no upper limit on this...

Here's some info on the UK scheme. The original estimate has already swollen by nearly a half a billion pounds and they've already had to forgo some of its original ideas.

Independent studies including one by the London School of Economics have suggested that costs could be as much as £12 billion to £18 billion. The reliability of this study has been challenged by the Government which disputed some of the assumptions used in the calculations such as the need to retake biometric information every 5 years. The government argued that this assumption had not been supported by any research in the London School of Economics report, and that biometric experts quoted in the LSE reports have sought to distance themselves from its findings. The Government also claimed that the authors of these estimates are established opponents to the scheme and cannot be considered unbiased academic sources. [1]

Tony McNulty, Home Office minister responsible for the scheme, responded by saying a "ceiling" on costs would be announced in October 2005 (BBC). There are now indications that the Government is looking at ways of subsidising the scheme by charging other Government Departments, with the implication that this would result in increased charges for other Government services to individuals or businesses [19].

In October 2006, the Government declared it would cost £5.4bn to run the ID cards scheme for the next 10 years.[20]

In 2007, the Home Office announced the official estimated cost of the scheme rose by £400m to £5.3 billion [2] After the general election the Home Office stated that it would cost £584 million a year to run the scheme.

The Government has abandoned plans for a giant new computer system to run the national identity card scheme. Instead of a single multi billion pound system, information will be held on three existing separate databases.

Edited August 19, 2007 by Number 6

[GaryC 7]

again...

im not defending all the latinos.. im just talking about ME, i dont wanna be inconvenienced more than enought just because of profiling, or bs like that.. i don't care if there are no more sanctuary cities, or whatever, if i dont commit a crime, or do any sh!t, the police and state should leave me alone.. period..

its selfish but true.. i care about me, and my family, period..

Ok, now your saying something I can understand. Your right, it would be a hassle to be singled out because of your skin color. I wouldn't like it either. But we have to do something about this problem. I wouldn't advocate only carding Hispanics. That is why I would want some sort of a government issued card for everyone that states their status. Then card everyone whenever they come in contact with the government, apply for a job or are arrested. I wouldn't mind if I were asked for my proof of citizenship under those conditions. I wouldn't want a neighborhood sweep just because it's a Latino area. Make it uniform and applicable to everyone and no one except the illegals are inconvenienced.

[pedroh 21]

again...

im not defending all the latinos.. im just talking about ME, i dont wanna be inconvenienced more than enought just because of profiling, or bs like that.. i don't care if there are no more sanctuary cities, or whatever, if i dont commit a crime, or do any sh!t, the police and state should leave me alone.. period..

its selfish but true.. i care about me, and my family, period..

Ok, now your saying something I can understand. Your right, it would be a hassle to be singled out because of your skin color. I wouldn't like it either. But we have to do something about this problem. I wouldn't advocate only carding Hispanics. That is why I would want some sort of a government issued card for everyone that states their status. Then card everyone whenever they come in contact with the government, apply for a job or are arrested. I wouldn't mind if I were asked for my proof of citizenship under those conditions. I wouldn't want a neighborhood sweep just because it's a Latino area. Make it uniform and applicable to everyone and no one except the illegals are inconvenienced.

glad you understood my point

im no defender of the latinos or anything like that.. but heck, if they do something about them, im incluided, and my thinking is 'if i dont fukc with the govt, the govt should leave me the fukc alone'..

[Heracles 417]

im not defending all the latinos.. im just talking about ME, i dont wanna be inconvenienced more than enought just because of profiling, or bs like that.. i don't care if there are no more sanctuary cities, or whatever, if i dont commit a crime, or do any sh!t, the police and state should leave me alone.. period..

its selfish but true.. i care about me, and my family, period..

why would i care about enforcement? are you implying that i'm illegal, or that i have illegal relatives? that's what you wanna say?

well immigrants like myself actually care about this nation rather than just ourselves. So I want the laws to be enforced rather than other illegal immigrants walking all over the country; for their 'personal' gain.

For me it is common sense. If XYZ is committing the crimes than anyone who falls into XYZ should be questioned. Why should I be checked solely because you do not want the authorities to discriminate against anyone who fits the description of the majority of illegal immigrants??

[peejay 327]

so just because you are Hispanic you should pay for what the illegal immigrants have done??

my hubby is Hispanic... so it is ok for him to get pulled over just because he his Hispanic and they might suspect him of being illegal??

Read my post...did I say that? I said that the law can be enforced without specifically targeting Hispanics and mass violations of civil rights through arbitrary street sweeps. So if he isn't an illegal alien he has nothing to fear. People that want absolutely no enforcement of immigration laws would have everyone believe that any enforcement of immigration laws = a police state. Utter nonsense!

sigh...

so as long as it doesn't bother you or your relatives.. it's ok to implement suchs laws.. you know, everybody knows here.. that the latino brothers (or anybody who looks 'mexican') will be carded, or pulled, more than other nationalities..

why don't we say it's a 'latino legal ID' or 'muslim non terrorist ID' card.. instead of a Universal ID card.... the law, once and again, have been not efficient in identifying potential illegals.. they just look for 'mexicans' and 'muslims'.. oh.. what a big fukcin system..

Well Pedroh, since 80+% of the illegal aliens in the USA are Hispanic I would imagine that any crackdown on illegal aliens will impact Hispanics more than any other group. So what? What you sow is what you reap.

Most of the illegal aliens are Mexicans...so within the Hispanic catagory they will be arrested and deported in greater numbers than Guatamalans. So what? What you sow is what you reap.

Over and over you try to push this concept that any enforcement of immigration laws is discrimination against Hispanics. Well...Hispanics are the worst violators of American immigration laws. If you wanna play you gotta pay.

That said...immigration laws can be enforced without specifically targeting Hispanics, but since most of the violators are Hispanic...they will be arrested and deported more than any other group. So what?

If you can't do the time...don't do the crime. Don't play the race card when it is totally irrelevant to the issue. Enforcement of the law can easily be done without arbitrary street sweeps and mass violations of civil rights. After 20 years of non-enforcement of existing laws some people may cry foul. So what? It's about time the law was actually enforced and promises by the politicians actually kept!

I'm not trying to be mean...I'm just stating the obvious.

well what if im not 'reaping' or 'playing'.. i dont wanna pay for what other people did.. why should i? why should i get more ####### than other immigrants.. why dont they just make a special latino immigrant category, or i dunno, put a chip on hte legal latinos?

Read my post Pedroh. Nobody sez you have to be sacrificed at the alter. Do you get so defensive when the clerk at the Piggly Wiggly asks for ID to buy beer or to cash a check? Yea...they're just jackin' with you cuz your Hispanic. It's a plot you see. Better go run to the SPLC or the ACLU.

[GaryC 7]

I think we should talk specifics. What exact circumstances would entail a person being singled out and required to produce ID?

So far I've seen plenty of assumption about random police sweeps. How exactly would this be enforced?

When you rent a house, when you apply for a job, when your pulled over for speeding, when your arrested for any crime, when you apply for government benefits ect. There are plenty of opportunities without a gestapo style sweep of a neighborhood. If you combine that with a controlled border and stiff penalties for hiring an illegal the problem will be solved a lot quicker than you might think.

Which leads to the second question of who will do the checking.

Then the third question. How much will it cost?

Here's some info on the UK scheme. The original estimate has already swollen by nearly a half a billion pounds and they've already had to forgo some of its original ideas.

How hard is it to ask for an ID? You make it sound like an FBI name check. And who cares what it costs? A billion dollars is nothing compaired to our yearly budget. I would be willing to pay whatever the cost to get this problem under control. You keep coming up with all these objections without any suggestions of your own. Frankly it makes me give your opinion less than top consideration.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Cost is a prime consideration - especially if you're talking about rolling this out to include tourists on 2-week holidays.

[GaryC 7]

Cost is a prime consideration - especially if you're talking about rolling this out to include tourists on 2-week holidays.

Big deal, let them complain or stay home.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Cost is a prime consideration - especially if you're talking about rolling this out to include tourists on 2-week holidays.

Big deal, let them complain or stay home.

As I said - the deadline on foreign travelers having to have biometric passports was moved back a year - precisely because of that consideration.

Edited August 20, 2007 by Number 6

[Heracles 417]

Cost is a prime consideration - especially if you're talking about rolling this out to include tourists on 2-week holidays.

A passport with the proper visa should be sufficient for tourists. For everyone else they should be able to prove their eligibility, if requested, to live and travel in this country. All permanent residents and temporary residents should carry the appropriate ID.

[rebeccajo 14]

Laugh all you want. Enforcement and cracking down on the gatecrashers is what America wants. Take a look at any days news. You will see local and state laws popping up that reflects these polls. You wait, next year the elections will not be about Iraq or the economy. It will be about immigration.

That sounds a lot like what George Bush thought when he was running for re-election.