71% Favor Requiring Foreign Visitors to Carry Universal ID Card

[Caladan 19]

Maybe we should put people's religions on it, too. I mean, they might be terrorists.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Fund ICE and let them do their jobs by enforcing the employment laws. You'll get all of the enforcement you need and I won't be violating the law by not pinning my ID to my clothing when I go for a run.

I wonder what would happen in that instance? Would you be detained/fined for not carrying it - or would you be required to present yourself at a police station within say 7 days.

What happens if you lose your card - how do you prove it? Do you get some sort of special dispensation for the above?

The database would still have you in it. A quick finger scan (which could be done from a patrol car) and your stats would be right there. It's the same as if you forget your DL. I did that once and got stopped. I gave the police man my SSN and he looked it up right there picture included. No one would be hauled off because they don't have the card with them.

What if I don't want to give a finger scan as the result of an arbitrary stop? I haven't done anything wrong - therefore I have the right to a modicum of privacy to not be hassled without due cause (Due Cause is not ' I stopped him because I felt like it').

To bad. Give it or get arrested. In a lot of states it is against the law to refuse to identify yourself. It should be a national law.

So you are advocating a police state?

Its amazing to me that you pour scorn on the idea of 'the nanny state', but seem to have no problem with something much worse.

Edited August 19, 2007 by Number 6

[GaryC 7]

Some other miscellaneous arguments for and against ID cards.

Arguments for:

* Cards may help reduce immigration service bureaucracy. In certain countries, the procedures for deporting illegal immigrants whose ages, identities or nationalities cannot be formally established are more complex than those for whom they can be readily asserted. This gives illegal immigrants more time to prepare their legal defence. In some countries (Spain, for instance) it may prevent the immigrant's deportation altogether. However, in this situation most illegal immigrants will destroy their identity papers, nullifying the reduction in bureaucracy.

The database will solve that problem. They can destroy the card all they want. A scan of a fingerprint and everything is there.

One fingerprint wouldn't do it. When you have your biometric data collected for AOS they scan all of your fingerprints individually. More to the point - they collect duplicate data. Why is this? Why do I have to pay for biometric data collection:

(1) At AOS

(2) At removal of conditions

(3) If my LPR card is lost or destroyed

I have wondered that myself. Seems redundant. But that is the USCIS doing that. One fingerprint would suffice for this subject. A fingerprint is taken at the POE already. That is the one that will do it for the alien card.

Fund ICE and let them do their jobs by enforcing the employment laws. You'll get all of the enforcement you need and I won't be violating the law by not pinning my ID to my clothing when I go for a run.

I wonder what would happen in that instance? Would you be detained/fined for not carrying it - or would you be required to present yourself at a police station within say 7 days.

What happens if you lose your card - how do you prove it? Do you get some sort of special dispensation for the above?

The database would still have you in it. A quick finger scan (which could be done from a patrol car) and your stats would be right there. It's the same as if you forget your DL. I did that once and got stopped. I gave the police man my SSN and he looked it up right there picture included. No one would be hauled off because they don't have the card with them.

What if I don't want to give a finger scan as the result of an arbitrary stop? I haven't done anything wrong - therefore I have the right to a modicum of privacy to not be hassled without due cause (Due Cause is not ' I stopped him because I felt like it').

To bad. Give it or get arrested. In a lot of states it is against the law to refuse to identify yourself. It should be a national law.

So you are advocating a police state?

Its amazing to me that you pour scorn on the idea of 'the nanny state', but seem to have no problem with something much worse.

I don't see it as a police state. I would welcome this change.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Some other miscellaneous arguments for and against ID cards.

Arguments for:

* Cards may help reduce immigration service bureaucracy. In certain countries, the procedures for deporting illegal immigrants whose ages, identities or nationalities cannot be formally established are more complex than those for whom they can be readily asserted. This gives illegal immigrants more time to prepare their legal defence. In some countries (Spain, for instance) it may prevent the immigrant's deportation altogether. However, in this situation most illegal immigrants will destroy their identity papers, nullifying the reduction in bureaucracy.

The database will solve that problem. They can destroy the card all they want. A scan of a fingerprint and everything is there.

One fingerprint wouldn't do it. When you have your biometric data collected for AOS they scan all of your fingerprints individually. More to the point - they collect duplicate data. Why is this? Why do I have to pay for biometric data collection:

(1) At AOS

(2) At removal of conditions

(3) If my LPR card is lost or destroyed

they also collect it at POE

Indeed they do. When I flew into the US in 2004 - the system was down, so the POE officers waved everyone through.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I don't see it as a police state. I would welcome this change.

It's the first step.

[GaryC 7]

I don't see it as a police state. I would welcome this change.

It's the first step.

Well like it or not it's what is coming.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I don't see it as a police state. I would welcome this change.

It's the first step.

Well like it or not it's what is coming.

Given that any national ID card bill would have to pass through the political machinery of the two houses, not to mention oversight by the Supreme Court and the likes of Civil Liberties organisations like the ACLU, there's no way you can predict something like that with (any) degree of certainty.

[rika60607 215]

Gary,

it seems you have a crystal ball that never failed you, so you believe it's predictions completely. You refer to it in more than one post.

A bit off topic, but - mind telling me what's gonna happen with real estate in US within next two years? Since you have that magic ball?

I need to know!

Well like it or not it's what is coming.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Maybe we should put people's religions on it, too. I mean, they might be terrorists.

We'd be just like Indonesia then.

[pedroh 21]

sigh...

so as long as it doesn't bother you or your relatives.. it's ok to implement suchs laws.. you know, everybody knows here.. that the latino brothers (or anybody who looks 'mexican') will be carded, or pulled, more than other nationalities..

why don't we say it's a 'latino legal ID' or 'muslim non terrorist ID' card.. instead of a Universal ID card.... the law, once and again, have been not efficient in identifying potential illegals.. they just look for 'mexicans' and 'muslims'.. oh.. what a big fukcin system..

[bszoom42 0]

Even as a U.S. Citizen by birth, you can be arrested if you do not have proper identification and are under suspicion by the police in a number of states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_Identify_statutes

In fact, the case about this went to the Supreme Court in 2005 and the Supreme Court upheld that it is reasonable for an officer to arrest you for not providing identification if the state statutes so signify.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiibel_v._Six...Court_of_Nevada

[Heracles 417]

So you are advocating a police state?

Its amazing to me that you pour scorn on the idea of 'the nanny state', but seem to have no problem with something much worse.

The US is far from a police state. In reality it is called enforcing the rules and laws to protect the people. In London I cannot sneeze without being monitored yet in a post 9/11 US, people can simply jump a fence and take up residence; at their own leisure..

PS I find that the same people who are against law enforcement and government intervention are also against people taking up arms to protect themselves.

[Heracles 417]

so as long as it doesn't bother you or your relatives.. it's ok to implement suchs laws.. you know, everybody knows here.. that the latino brothers (or anybody who looks 'mexican') will be carded, or pulled, more than other nationalities..

I thought was was s given as they make up the majority of illegal immigrants..

[Scott & Lai 12]

PS I find that the same people who are against law enforcement and government intervention are also against people taking up arms to protect themselves.

Yeah, go figure

[peejay 327]

sigh...

so as long as it doesn't bother you or your relatives.. it's ok to implement suchs laws.. you know, everybody knows here.. that the latino brothers (or anybody who looks 'mexican') will be carded, or pulled, more than other nationalities..

why don't we say it's a 'latino legal ID' or 'muslim non terrorist ID' card.. instead of a Universal ID card.... the law, once and again, have been not efficient in identifying potential illegals.. they just look for 'mexicans' and 'muslims'.. oh.. what a big fukcin system..

Well Pedroh, since 80+% of the illegal aliens in the USA are Hispanic I would imagine that any crackdown on illegal aliens will impact Hispanics more than any other group. So what? What you sow is what you reap.

Most of the illegal aliens are Mexicans...so within the Hispanic catagory they will be arrested and deported in greater numbers than Guatamalans. So what? What you sow is what you reap.

Over and over you try to push this concept that any enforcement of immigration laws is discrimination against Hispanics. Well...Hispanics are the worst violators of American immigration laws. If you wanna play you gotta pay.

That said...immigration laws can be enforced without specifically targeting Hispanics, but since most of the violators are Hispanic...they will be arrested and deported more than any other group. So what?

If you can't do the time...don't do the crime. Don't play the race card when it is totally irrelevant to the issue. Enforcement of the law can easily be done without arbitrary street sweeps and mass violations of civil rights. After 20 years of non-enforcement of existing laws some people may cry foul. So what? It's about time the law was actually enforced and promises by the politicians actually kept!

I'm not trying to be mean...I'm just stating the obvious.