Taking the Oath

[cal 0]

I am about a year away from being eligible to apply for citizenship, and was just looking through the N-400 form. Is it just me, or does anyone else have a problem taking the oath of allegiance???? I know the US allows for dual citizenship although it is not encouraged, and the wording in the Oath really bugs me:

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen;"

Dont get me wrong, I understand why it is so strongly worded. My main reason for wanting citizenship is for my daughter who is a US citizen.

Does anyone else feel this way about renouncing their country?

[Credzba 0]

I am an American citizen, and I don't feel I have allegiance or fidelity to America right now.

I love my country, and the principles for which it was founded, but the current government has made a mockery of the things I hold precious.

I think it is reasonable that if you want to be an American citizen, then while you are here you should love America. Your reasons for becoming a citizen are so your daughter can be a citizen.

You obviously love this country enough to want to pass it on to your children.

In my mind, you have already fulfilled the meaning of those words.

A child is a parents most precious possession, if you are willing this citizenship to your child, you love the country, otherwise you would not give it to your child.

Relax at the strong wording, and accept the meaning the words intend.

If you wish to be an American citizen, love the country.

Love this land enough to stand up for what is right and defend the principles of this country.

If you don't love the country this much, then certainly don't make your child live here, because if we citizens don't defend what is good about this country, then our children will have a terrible place to live.

Good luck.

[foxtobee 1]

I am about a year away from being eligible to apply for citizenship, and was just looking through the N-400 form. Is it just me, or does anyone else have a problem taking the oath of allegiance???? I know the US allows for dual citizenship although it is not encouraged, and the wording in the Oath really bugs me:

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen;"

Dont get me wrong, I understand why it is so strongly worded. My main reason for wanting citizenship is for my daughter who is a US citizen.

Does anyone else feel this way about renouncing their country?

It was that part exactly what made me feel uncomfortable. Even though I enjoy living in America and want my childeren to grow up in a safe nation, I would never feel like I could renounce full loyalty to the land I was born at.

I believe my children will be US citizens anyhow, because my husband is one, but I am wondering what will that mean if I ever want to travel with my child alone, or in case ( let seriously hope NOT) my husband passes away would I be able to move back to my home country, in any case I would want to do so??

Can my children have dual citizenship too?

[Lansbury 19]

I have thought much the same thing. My take on it is the UK and USA or very unlikely to ever be in a situation where I would have to choose between one or the other so I will have no quarms about the oath.

[trailmix 77]

I see what you mean, that's a tough one.

I was born a dual citizen so it's not an issue for me (no oaths involved!), however, my Husband is Australian and he just said to me he wouldn't really want to do it. He said that if there were a conflict between Australia and the U.S. that he wouldn't be able to stand up to that oath (this has probably crossed your mind too), that being the case he would feel bad about taking the oath.

However he also said he would probably take the oath anyway if he wanted citzenship - which he doesn't really (however there aren't children involved so it's a different matter).

I completely understand your thoughts on this - maybe it's really about intent, that while you may not feel exactly what your oath would imply, you will do your best to be a great citizen!

[warlord 73]

I had absolutley now problems saying that at all. I know you can take a modified oath if you wish. Though that might have to be the bear arms part only that you are allowed to modify.

[Lou Lou 1]

Yep, the oath is well dodgy. But...ya gotta do what ya gotta do and all that.

[hawaiiandreams 0]

Yep, the oath is well dodgy. But...ya gotta do what ya gotta do and all that.

I understand you feeling the way that you do.. I am not yet even through the immigration process however I have certainally thought ahead about the pro's and con's of applying for US citizenship once I am eligible to do so.

I think Australians are quite patriotic people - we love our contry. So to say that we "renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity" to basically anything to do with our contry would be a very difficult thing to say.

But I know I will do it, when the time comes. One day my husband and I will have children and I will want to share 'belonging' to States with them.

And I find much comfort in the fact that we are still able to keep our Australian identity. Many countries (such as Singapore) don't allow that.

[motu 6]

You have a small problem compared to mine - I am an atheist so I do not want to swear to god in any matter (a few times I have been to court too) - I realized long ago that even if you do not believe in god you still have to affirm. So, my rationale has been - I am not swearing to god I am just saying that I will tell the truth etc. - which I always intend to do regardless of the debate over the existence of god.

When I became a citizenship the oath of allegiance was done in a group - there were about 200+ people in the hall and one didn't have to say any or all of the words that were said - in my case, I still affirmed that I am for the constitution of the USA and at least at that moment I did not have any conflict with the US Govt. and my birth country (which incidentally now allows dual citizenship.)

My rationale in your situation - you are aligning yourself with the US constitution at that time and in future you have the right to withdraw your allegiance - as many people did (consciously or otherwise) during the Vietnam era.

Just because you swore your allegiance today doesn't preclude you from withdrawing it later on. A simple example instead of the complicated example of a war between US and your birth country is the fact that when you grow older and retire - you may want to move out of USA and live in another country and would be willing to give up your citizenship in order to become the citizen of the other country. Several Americans have done this - they are now citizens of Costa Rica, Panama etc. - and some have dual citizenship while others have given up their US citizenship.

Relax and use the rationale that fits your situation - and hopefully a conflict will never arise in which you may be forced to switch your allegiance. Good Luck

[The Group Meater! 0]

You have a small problem compared to mine - I am an atheist so I do not want to swear to god in any matter (a few times I have been to court too) - I realized long ago that even if you do not believe in god you still have to affirm. So, my rationale has been - I am not swearing to god I am just saying that I will tell the truth etc. - which I always intend to do regardless of the debate over the existence of god.

When I became a citizenship the oath of allegiance was done in a group - there were about 200+ people in the hall and one didn't have to say any or all of the words that were said - in my case, I still affirmed that I am for the constitution of the USA and at least at that moment I did not have any conflict with the US Govt. and my birth country (which incidentally now allows dual citizenship.)

My rationale in your situation - you are aligning yourself with the US constitution at that time and in future you have the right to withdraw your allegiance - as many people did (consciously or otherwise) during the Vietnam era.

Just because you swore your allegiance today doesn't preclude you from withdrawing it later on. A simple example instead of the complicated example of a war between US and your birth country is the fact that when you grow older and retire - you may want to move out of USA and live in another country and would be willing to give up your citizenship in order to become the citizen of the other country. Several Americans have done this - they are now citizens of Costa Rica, Panama etc. - and some have dual citizenship while others have given up their US citizenship.

Relax and use the rationale that fits your situation - and hopefully a conflict will never arise in which you may be forced to switch your allegiance. Good Luck

According to Expedia.....

The line "so help me God" is optional, and sometimes the lines "that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by law; that I will perform non-combatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by law" are omitted as well, if the prospective citizen can prove such commitments are in violation with his or her religion.

[Captain Oates 911]

According to Expedia.....

The line "so help me God" is optional, and sometimes the lines "that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by law; that I will perform non-combatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by law" are omitted as well, if the prospective citizen can prove such commitments are in violation with his or her religion.

So what about if you don't have a religion and you don't want to go around killing ? just kiddin' I waited until I was 60 to enter so they wont strap a flame thrower to my back and expect me to douse 18 year old boys and girls from other countries with gasoline and petroleum jelly mixture .

I don't mind 'bare arms' I will get a nice tan in Florida that way - not my fault if I misunderstood

[Sister Fracas 5]

I don't mind 'bare arms' I will get a nice tan in Florida that way - not my fault if I misunderstood

hahahaha! that's excellent! I'll have to tell my husband to think of it that way when his time comes.

[Inlove_tx 0]

I don't mind 'bare arms' I will get a nice tan in Florida that way - not my fault if I misunderstood

That's the best one ever!

[Rob and Cathy 0]

I kinda have mixed feelings on this topic.

In looking at it from an American point of view, I would want those who become citizens of this country to swear allegiance to it. At least for as long as they intend on living & working here as citizens. If it's good enough to make a life here then it's good enough to love, defend, protect and be loyal to it.

However, I can understand how a person would feel having to renounce their birth country.

I think I would have to look at it like this.....I would swear my allegiance for at least as long as I hold that citizenship and make my life here because a person can always return to their homeland if this isn't acceptable to them.

If I were to immigrate to another country that would open it's doors to me & welcome me, I would feel obligated to do so. I would feel obligated to adapt myself to their customs as well as learn their language. I would not expect that country to adjust or change the rules/laws just for me.

Just my take on things.

[Mononoke28 135]

Oh my gosh what are the chances of the US going to war with Australia or even Canada for that matter? That's just too funny. Don't feel uncomfortable taking the oath because of that. It's like not wanting to get on a plane because it might crash... Sure it happens, but the chances of it happening are very slim.

Diana