Activism and U.S. History

[Gaby&Talbert 1]

How do you all feel about the waiver program which allow immigration law breakers to get visas if the USC can come up with a good enough "STORY" to be forgiven for breaking our immigration laws?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Mitigating Circumstances: Those which do not constitute a justification or excuse for an offense but which may be considered as reasons for reducing the penalties imposed.

"Deport her! Deport her!" is a bit archaic without considering all the circumstances surrounding her case, don't you think? When did application of law become black and white?

In this case, yes.

Circumstances are considered mitigating only if the frequency of the occurrence is low enough to be considered unusual. What's so unusual about her circumstances? That she has a family? Gee, there are 10 million illegals with families in this country. That she's poor and wanted a better life? Who doesn't? There are 3 billion poor people out there who would rather be here.

So, if she can pay whatever fines be appropriate, you don't think granting her temporary status until her son reaches 18 is reasonable? What do you do about the child?

No, I would not think it is appropriate. What does she do with the child? She's the parent, it's her decision. Do we mitigate reasonable punishment handed down by a court of law for US citizen parents of US citizen children? I think there are plenty of parents locked up proving that we do not. Why should a foreign national be afforded better treatment than a US citizen?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

How do you all feel about the waiver program which allow immigration law breakers to get visas if the USC can come up with a good enough "STORY" to be forgiven for breaking our immigration laws?

If you're talking about adjusting status from VWP to PR based on the marriage to a USC, that's within the law. USCIS would not adjust the alien's status if it was against the law.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I don't think it counts as civil disobedience, Stephen, because someone who, say, works illegally, isn't really protesting in a way that's comparable to sitting at the front of the bus. Civil disobedience just doesn't mean ignoring an unjust law because there has to be an act of political expression, but it isn't limited to citizens with voting rights.

Well, in the case of this mother whose 8 yr. old son is a USC, she is basically fighting against being deported and banned from this country. I wasn't trying to make the case that anyone who comes here and works illegally as being an activist. I don't even know whether her defiance is justified or not. I was responding to those who claimed she has no justification based on the grounds that she broke immigration laws. It's kinda funny how many different directions people want to take this argument.

Steven,

By coming to this country illegally, this woman knew and accepted the risk that she

would get deported if discovered. She figured it was worth the risk and built her life

on a lie which now stands harshly exposed.

What's happening to her now is the inevitable and reasonably expected consequence

of her actions. The fact that she now has a USC son doesn't change a thing. "Justice"

has finally caught up with her and awaits on the other side of the border.

Mitigating Circumstances: Those which do not constitute a justification or excuse for an offense but which may be considered as reasons for reducing the penalties imposed.

"Deport her! Deport her!" is a bit archaic without considering all the circumstances surrounding her case, don't you think? When did application of law become black and white?

I hate to sound like a broken record but since you keep saying the same thing without taking into account what's on the table, here goes again: A deportation order (which a court of law issues) means that she has been afforded due process - i.e. her mitigating circumstances were considered. Take notice.

Many court decisions can be overturned and many do. Is that a slap at due process or just part of the process?

[Gaby&Talbert 1]

No I was asking for opinions on the waiver program being a bad law just like the law that give children born on US soil citizenship even if the parents entered illegally.

[mawilson 2,133]

Do we mitigate reasonable punishment handed down by a court of law for US citizen parents of US citizen children? I think there are plenty of parents locked up proving that we do not. Why should a foreign national be afforded better treatment than a US citizen?

Exactly. The fact that she has a child doesn't make her special and doesn't excuse her

from breaking the law and the responsibility to pay for her crimes.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Do we mitigate reasonable punishment handed down by a court of law for US citizen parents of US citizen children? I think there are plenty of parents locked up proving that we do not. Why should a foreign national be afforded better treatment than a US citizen?

Exactly. The fact that she has a child doesn't make her special and doesn't excuse her

from breaking the law and the responsibility to pay for her crimes.

On that issue alone, I agree. Just as breaking immigration laws shouldn't necessarily mean she be denied any chance to remain here on a temporary visa.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I don't think it counts as civil disobedience, Stephen, because someone who, say, works illegally, isn't really protesting in a way that's comparable to sitting at the front of the bus. Civil disobedience just doesn't mean ignoring an unjust law because there has to be an act of political expression, but it isn't limited to citizens with voting rights.

Well, in the case of this mother whose 8 yr. old son is a USC, she is basically fighting against being deported and banned from this country. I wasn't trying to make the case that anyone who comes here and works illegally as being an activist. I don't even know whether her defiance is justified or not. I was responding to those who claimed she has no justification based on the grounds that she broke immigration laws. It's kinda funny how many different directions people want to take this argument.

Steven,

By coming to this country illegally, this woman knew and accepted the risk that she

would get deported if discovered. She figured it was worth the risk and built her life

on a lie which now stands harshly exposed.

What's happening to her now is the inevitable and reasonably expected consequence

of her actions. The fact that she now has a USC son doesn't change a thing. "Justice"

has finally caught up with her and awaits on the other side of the border.

Mitigating Circumstances: Those which do not constitute a justification or excuse for an offense but which may be considered as reasons for reducing the penalties imposed.

"Deport her! Deport her!" is a bit archaic without considering all the circumstances surrounding her case, don't you think? When did application of law become black and white?

I hate to sound like a broken record but since you keep saying the same thing without taking into account what's on the table, here goes again: A deportation order (which a court of law issues) means that she has been afforded due process - i.e. her mitigating circumstances were considered. Take notice.

Many court decisions can be overturned and many do. Is that a slap at due process or just part of the process?

Many court decisions might be oveerturned. Many more stand. Her's seem to stand. She doesn't appear to be thinking too highly of that due process we have established in this country. Edited August 16, 2007 by Mr. Big Dog

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Do we mitigate reasonable punishment handed down by a court of law for US citizen parents of US citizen children? I think there are plenty of parents locked up proving that we do not. Why should a foreign national be afforded better treatment than a US citizen?

Exactly. The fact that she has a child doesn't make her special and doesn't excuse her from breaking the law and the responsibility to pay for her crimes.

On that issue alone, I agree. Just as breaking immigration laws shouldn't necessarily mean she be denied any chance to remain here on a temporary visa.

Then again, the court(s) decided that she should not remain here. I believe that the power to make that decision better stays with the court(s) rather than the subjects.