Immigration Activist to Leave Sanctuary

[isleta521 5]

Well, as I mentioned before, Abolitionists

Fruity. Apples and Oranges anyone?

The mindset is the same, whether you agree with her views or not. Activists throughout history have often defied the very rulers and rules when they felt they were unjust.

Other activists and Activist groups that felt unjustly wronged were the KKK, John Wilkes, ICERR and the third riech.

True. But social change for better or worse has often been because someone took action against the establishment.

Yes, they wanted social change to justify THEIR "better" at the expense of someone elses "worse". It does work both ways and anyone can justify their actions. The law is the law and if she feels unjustly wronged, why cannot she try to change it in her country? She seems like she could make a difference if she diverted her energy.

[mawilson 2,133]

It is not her place to determine which laws of the USA she feels are just.

Addie is right. It's not her place to decide whether or not the laws are just.

It's up to American citizens to decide whether or not they want the laws of their land changed.

It is the height of arrogance in her to ascribe the decisions of U.S. citizens with

which she disagrees to bad motives and assume her own opinion as the invariable

standard of right and wrong in a country where she shouldn't be in the first place.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Well, as I mentioned before, Abolitionists

Fruity. Apples and Oranges anyone?

The mindset is the same, whether you agree with her views or not. Activists throughout history have often defied the very rulers and rules when they felt they were unjust.

Other activists and Activist groups that felt unjustly wronged were the KKK, John Wilkes, ICERR and the third riech.

True. But social change for better or worse has often been because someone took action against the establishment.

this is very true... and as far as i see it, the big businesses who exploit the illegal aliens have become 'the establishment'... and i would like to see action taken against them and actually enforce the laws that they are trying to make invalid

It's more complicated than that and we're all part of the equation, but I don't want to derail this thread. Hopefully we agree then that an activist may in fact act outside of law...it doesn't mean they're necessarily on the right side of justice, but defiance of a set of laws by itself doesn't preclude that a person is on the wrong side of justice.

It is not her place to determine which laws of the USA she feels are just.

Addie is right. It's not her place to decide whether or not the laws are just.

It's up to American citizens to decide whether or not they want the laws of their land changed.

It is the height of arrogance in her to ascribe the decisions of U.S. citizens with

which she disagrees to bad motives and assume her own opinion as the invariable

standard of right and wrong in a country where she shouldn't be in the first place.

LOL...Ah arrogance reigns supreme in the mindset of so many Americans. I'll let you think about that one for awhile.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Well, as I mentioned before, Abolitionists

Fruity. Apples and Oranges anyone?

The mindset is the same, whether you agree with her views or not. Activists throughout history have often defied the very rulers and rules when they felt they were unjust.

Other activists and Activist groups that felt unjustly wronged were the KKK, John Wilkes, ICERR and the third riech.

True. But social change for better or worse has often been because someone took action against the establishment.

Yes, they wanted social change to justify THEIR "better" at the expense of someone elses "worse". It does work both ways and anyone can justify their actions. The law is the law and if she feels unjustly wronged, why cannot she try to change it in her country? She seems like she could make a difference if she diverted her energy.

This idea that the law is the law is the law is fanactical to say the least. There is a thing called the human conscience and IMO, most of us have that inner compass that helps us point in the direction of what is just. We don't just blindly follow government and its laws...that is Facism (I'm not trying to flame...look up the definition).

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Well, as I mentioned before, Abolitionists

Fruity. Apples and Oranges anyone?

The mindset is the same, whether you agree with her views or not. Activists throughout history have often defied the very rulers and rules when they felt they were unjust.

The underlying cause is vastly different making the comparison useless.

History will be the judge of that, brother. I can't imagine you or I having the same perspective we have about slavery that we do now if we were living in that time period. Perspective is a beautiful thing.

To compare illegals with slaves does not do justice to what slaves endured. Seesm to me that you're losing something beautiful here.

[isleta521 5]

Well, as I mentioned before, Abolitionists

Fruity. Apples and Oranges anyone?

The mindset is the same, whether you agree with her views or not. Activists throughout history have often defied the very rulers and rules when they felt they were unjust.

Other activists and Activist groups that felt unjustly wronged were the KKK, John Wilkes, ICERR and the third riech.

True. But social change for better or worse has often been because someone took action against the establishment.

Yes, they wanted social change to justify THEIR "better" at the expense of someone elses "worse". It does work both ways and anyone can justify their actions. The law is the law and if she feels unjustly wronged, why cannot she try to change it in her country? She seems like she could make a difference if she diverted her energy.

This idea that the law is the law is the law is fanactical to say the least. There is a thing called the human conscience and IMO, most of us have that inner compass that helps us point in the direction of what is just. We don't just blindly follow government and its laws...that is Facism (I'm not trying to flame...look up the definition).

I know what you are trying to say. And I dont fault you for it - I respect your view even though I find hard to agree. I agree that some laws may not be justly, just because this is the "great" United States. And I dont blame anyone living in poverty trying to make a better living for themselves and their family by crossing the fronteira. I know and seen many illegal immigrants in my lifetime and some are actually good friends. But I also have my set of values and beliefs and I think it is destructive to not have controls to stop the influx of illegals here in the US. It must and has to stop somewhere.

[Heracles 417]

I cannot believe the nerve of this lady.

Unfortunately many religious leaders do not understand that they are not doing Gods work by harboring illegal immigrants. God does not advocate people breaking the law.

Also comparing this to the freeing of slaves is not justified as illegal immigrants are here by their own choice. They have the freedom to leave and go back home at any time.

[bszoom42 0]

Latest update on the poll...

When Elvira Arellano leaves the church she has been hiding in, should authorities arrest her?

They should do nothing.

13% 172 votes

They should arrest her right away.

73% 932 votes

They should let her make her case in Washington, and then arrest her.

12% 163 votes

Total Votes: 1267

[Heracles 417]

I know what you are trying to say. And I dont fault you for it - I respect your view even though I find hard to agree. I agree that some laws may not be justly, just because this is the "great" United States. And I dont blame anyone living in poverty trying to make a better living for themselves and their family by crossing the fronteira. I know and seen many illegal immigrants in my lifetime and some are actually good friends. But I also have my set of values and beliefs and I think it is destructive to not have controls to stop the influx of illegals here in the US. It must and has to stop somewhere.

These free roaming lawless illegal immigrants are part of the continuing decline of living standards, safety and prosperity for Americans. Does the following need to occur before we wake up. http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...t&p=1123418

Edited August 15, 2007 by Boo-Yah!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Well, as I mentioned before, Abolitionists

Fruity. Apples and Oranges anyone?

The mindset is the same, whether you agree with her views or not. Activists throughout history have often defied the very rulers and rules when they felt they were unjust.

The underlying cause is vastly different making the comparison useless.

History will be the judge of that, brother. I can't imagine you or I having the same perspective we have about slavery that we do now if we were living in that time period. Perspective is a beautiful thing.

To compare illegals with slaves does not do justice to what slaves endured. Seesm to me that you're losing something beautiful here.

I wasn't make a direct comparison and you know it. I was trying to demonstrate that what was once accepted by many and fully legal 150 years ago no longer holds true, and there were people at the time who dared to defy society's rules because they followed their conscience rather than law.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Well, as I mentioned before, Abolitionists

Fruity. Apples and Oranges anyone?

The mindset is the same, whether you agree with her views or not. Activists throughout history have often defied the very rulers and rules when they felt they were unjust.

Other activists and Activist groups that felt unjustly wronged were the KKK, John Wilkes, ICERR and the third riech.

True. But social change for better or worse has often been because someone took action against the establishment.

Yes, they wanted social change to justify THEIR "better" at the expense of someone elses "worse". It does work both ways and anyone can justify their actions. The law is the law and if she feels unjustly wronged, why cannot she try to change it in her country? She seems like she could make a difference if she diverted her energy.

This idea that the law is the law is the law is fanactical to say the least. There is a thing called the human conscience and IMO, most of us have that inner compass that helps us point in the direction of what is just. We don't just blindly follow government and its laws...that is Facism (I'm not trying to flame...look up the definition).

I know what you are trying to say. And I dont fault you for it - I respect your view even though I find hard to agree. I agree that some laws may not be justly, just because this is the "great" United States. And I dont blame anyone living in poverty trying to make a better living for themselves and their family by crossing the fronteira. I know and seen many illegal immigrants in my lifetime and some are actually good friends. But I also have my set of values and beliefs and I think it is destructive to not have controls to stop the influx of illegals here in the US. It must and has to stop somewhere.

Well, with respect to this woman, my conscience tells me that deporting her when she has an 8 yr. old son who is a U.S. citizen is archaic. Fine her for using a false ss#, but don't deport her.

[keltic 1]

Well, as I mentioned before, Abolitionists

Fruity. Apples and Oranges anyone?

The mindset is the same, whether you agree with her views or not. Activists throughout history have often defied the very rulers and rules when they felt they were unjust.

Other activists and Activist groups that felt unjustly wronged were the KKK, John Wilkes, ICERR and the third riech.

True. But social change for better or worse has often been because someone took action against the establishment.

Yes, they wanted social change to justify THEIR "better" at the expense of someone elses "worse". It does work both ways and anyone can justify their actions. The law is the law and if she feels unjustly wronged, why cannot she try to change it in her country? She seems like she could make a difference if she diverted her energy.

This idea that the law is the law is the law is fanactical to say the least. There is a thing called the human conscience and IMO, most of us have that inner compass that helps us point in the direction of what is just. We don't just blindly follow government and its laws...that is Facism (I'm not trying to flame...look up the definition).

I know what you are trying to say. And I dont fault you for it - I respect your view even though I find hard to agree. I agree that some laws may not be justly, just because this is the "great" United States. And I dont blame anyone living in poverty trying to make a better living for themselves and their family by crossing the fronteira. I know and seen many illegal immigrants in my lifetime and some are actually good friends. But I also have my set of values and beliefs and I think it is destructive to not have controls to stop the influx of illegals here in the US. It must and has to stop somewhere.

Well, with respect to this woman, my conscience tells me that deporting her when she has an 8 yr. old son who is a U.S. citizen is archaic. Fine her for using a false ss#, but don't deport her.

if this woman flat out said to you, "i had my son here on american soil just so that the govt wouldnt deport me, even tho i am here illegally" would you still feel the same?

i find it distasteful and frankly unethical for her to be using her son as a pawn

[one...two...tree 2,762]

if this woman flat out said to you, "i had my son here on american soil just so that the govt wouldnt deport me, even tho i am here illegally" would you still feel the same?

i find it distasteful and frankly unethical for her to be using her son as a pawn

I don't know this woman's intentions but I'll never feel threatened by a foreigner who wants to come here and work in childcare or clean planes.

Edited August 15, 2007 by Mister Fancypants

[Peikko 1,575]

This has to be the best quote

"god does not advocate people breaking the law"

Actually, that's not funny, that's dangerous!

[mawilson 2,133]

Well, with respect to this woman, my conscience tells me that deporting her when she has an 8 yr. old son who is a U.S. citizen is archaic. Fine her for using a false ss#, but don't deport her.

The wheels of justice are slow, but eventually they catch up with you and grind you to a fine powder.

Let's say you rob a bank and get away with it and use the money to start a successful business.

10 years later new evidence comes to light which proves that you're guilty. Should the cops

just say, "Hey, you've been an upstanding, law-abiding citizen for the past 10 years, let's forget

about that $4 million you stole, ok?"