filing K3 before marriage

[khengool 0]

This is my first post. I searched, but found nothing on the topic...

If I am not married to my future spouse yet, am i able to begin the K3 process and set up the appointment to occur after our legal marriage? I would bring the evidence of a bona fide marriage with me to the interview. I would also provide evidence of an ongoing relationship with the packet while setting up the interview date for the K3.

Is this possible? is there a precedent for such a thing? in my country of origin it is not possible to have a religious, but non-legal marriage ceremony and our require it before we are able to begin our life together.

thanks for the help!

[Alan01 0]

I would be very careful about that. It happened to a couple - the got married before arriving on a fiancé visa and were accused of fraud. Take a look at the following website. Read it carefully. I would not get married. You can do that in the US.

http://www.bringakikohome.com/

If you want to get married first, you have to do a K-3, which seems to be slower.

[C and J 1]

I believe you will find the answer to be "no" you cannot file the K3 without being married. The reason for this is you must file the I130 & K3. Both are petitions for relatives and if you are filling in these forms to say you are already married then I see that as being some kind of fraud. The I130 specifically asks for the date of your current marriage.

The K1 is there for fiances and this would be the form relevant to you.

in my country of origin it is not possible to have a religious, but non-legal marriage ceremony and our require it before we are able to begin our life together.

This slightly confuses me. Why would you want a non-legal, religious marriage? A marriage is a marriage, no matter where the ceremony took place. Are you under the assumption that a marriage must take place in the US to be legal in the US? If so, that is not true.

[jundp 191]

in my country of origin it is not possible to have a religious, but non-legal marriage ceremony and our require it before we are able to begin our life together.

This slightly confuses me. Why would you want a non-legal, religious marriage? A marriage is a marriage, no matter where the ceremony took place. Are you under the assumption that a marriage must take place in the US to be legal in the US? If so, that is not true.

In some countries it is possible to have a religious ceremony (for the sake of the family, for example) but it is not a legal marriage. For example, in Germany one must have a civil ceremony BEFORE you can have a religious ceremony. A religious wedding ceremony alone is not considered legal in Germany, and therefore not recognized as such in the United States. There are many countries with similar laws, so you can have a religious wedding ceremony in the fiance's home country and the family can be involved, but you aren't breaking any immigration laws or commiting fraud if you come to the US on a K1.

I may be wrong, but I think that's what the OP was saying. He can't do a religious, non-legal ceremony in his country of origin to satisfy the family, therefore they need to get married there and then come to the US on a K3, not a K1.

[C and J 1]

I may be wrong, but I think that's what the OP was saying. He can't do a religious, non-legal ceremony in his country of origin to satisfy the family, therefore they need to get married there and then come to the US on a K3, not a K1.

That's how I took it too, even though I was a bit unsure because of the wording... as a religious non-legal marriage was not possible, to satisfy his family they would have to have a religious legal marriage in Iran. That is why I clarified that as long as the marriage is legal then the country it takes place in is not an issue.

Unfortunately, as it is a requirement for their families, the OP will have to delay applying for the K3 until the ceremony has been held. I do not think it is worth the risk of being charged with visa fraud to cut a small amount of time off the visa processing. Because, depending on how long it takes to have the wedding ceremony, you would only be reducing the waiting time by that same amount. If this time difference is very important to you, is it possible to schedule your wedding earlier rather than later?

[MargotDarko 0]

This is my first post. I searched, but found nothing on the topic...

If I am not married to my future spouse yet, am i able to begin the K3 process and set up the appointment to occur after our legal marriage? I would bring the evidence of a bona fide marriage with me to the interview. I would also provide evidence of an ongoing relationship with the packet while setting up the interview date for the K3.

Is this possible? is there a precedent for such a thing? in my country of origin it is not possible to have a religious, but non-legal marriage ceremony and our require it before we are able to begin our life together.

thanks for the help!

It is not possible to start the K3 process before the marriage takes place. You must file a I-130 first, and you must include a copy of the marriage certificate with the I-130.

[pushbrk 12,878]

This is my first post. I searched, but found nothing on the topic...

If I am not married to my future spouse yet, am i able to begin the K3 process and set up the appointment to occur after our legal marriage? I would bring the evidence of a bona fide marriage with me to the interview. I would also provide evidence of an ongoing relationship with the packet while setting up the interview date for the K3.

Is this possible? is there a precedent for such a thing? in my country of origin it is not possible to have a religious, but non-legal marriage ceremony and our require it before we are able to begin our life together.

thanks for the help!

No, it is not possible. If your plans are to marry abroad, you must marry and obtain a marriage certificate to include in your petition, before you file any petition for a spouse visa.

If your plans are to marry in the US, then you can file a petition for a Fiance visa. Please start by clicking on the word Guides at the top of any page here.

[belinda63 3,038]

I understand completely. I would love to visit my fiance in Iran but there would be no point as we could go nowhere together without and escort, although I have thought of using his nieces. The rules are very strict, we could not visit together in a hotel room, could not ride travel together, could not even touch in public.

Sadly, you must decide between the fiance visa and the spouse visa. We chose the K-1 because it was supposed to be quicker ane we can always go to his sister's home in Sweden if it takes too long to reunite again.

If you plan to spend a lot of time in Iran or make a lot of visits while you are waiting, I suggest you go ahead and get married and file the 130/K-3. If you are like us and can't afford to visit in Iran, or have alternative places (Turkey is good) to meet, go with the K-1 because it is faster.

[khengool 0]

we could go nowhere together without and escort, although I have thought of using his nieces.

The rules are very strict, we could not visit together in a hotel room,

could not ride travel together,

could not even touch in public.

The first one is a half-truth. As a single woman, you cannot get a hotel room anywhere.

The second one is also a half-truth. He can get a hotel room, but you can't, although there is the possibility of you just visiting him in his room.

The third one is untrue. You can travel wherever you like together. Finding a hotel that will allow you both to stay there without being "mahram" (mahramiat is loosely defined as marital familiarity) would be the difficult part, although if you liked you could stay at a non-public home, like that of family or friends.

The fourth one is blatantly untrue. Holding hands in public is acceptable and not frowned upon in any way by 99% of the police in Iran. There are special ones called "Gashte ershaad" who may give you trouble for this sort of thing, but they are very easy to spot, stand in one place at all times, and bug EVERYONE, no matter what they do or what they are wearing. it's basically a part of their job description.

Of course, the rules may vary slightly based on where in Iran your fiance is. If he is in a more rural area or a more religious area than tehran, you might not be able to do the hand holding thing as much, but traveling together is ok as long as you have a place to stay.

AFAIK the rules you posted are a lot closer to those in Saudi Arabia and very rural or very religious parts of Iran, not the major cities (aside from Qom, maybe).

[khengool 0]

I find it laughable that being legally committed to marry in another country is actually penalized by the visa issuers.

If your wedding date is planned already, you have paid the filing fees, and submitted all other portions of the K3, you shouldn't have to wait to get married to file. What's the harm in showing them the bona fide marriage documents and evidence during the interview? It puts a big burden on those of us whose countries of origin and religions do not allow us to have a non-legal marriage.

If there wasn't a precedent accounting for similar things in the K1 Visa i would understand, but given that the K1 allows provisions for marriage by proxy if it is an accepted cultural and religious practice in the country of origin, I don't see why similar provisions wouldn't be made for people who want to file a K3 without being legally married yet, but plan to be before their interview.

[MargotDarko 0]

I find it laughable that being legally committed to marry in another country is actually penalized by the visa issuers.

If your wedding date is planned already, you have paid the filing fees, and submitted all other portions of the K3, you shouldn't have to wait to get married to file. What's the harm in showing them the bona fide marriage documents and evidence during the interview? It puts a big burden on those of us whose countries of origin and religions do not allow us to have a non-legal marriage.

If there wasn't a precedent accounting for similar things in the K1 Visa i would understand, but given that the K1 allows provisions for marriage by proxy if it is an accepted cultural and religious practice in the country of origin, I don't see why similar provisions wouldn't be made for people who want to file a K3 without being legally married yet, but plan to be before their interview.

What are referring to when you mention provisions to marry by proxy with the K1 visa? For couples with the K1 visa, they must marry in the US within 90 days of the foreign half of the couple using the K1 visa to enter the states.

I'm sorry I do not understand what the big burden is. The only thing different from what you were hoping for is that the process will take longer than you expected. I do not see why that is a huge burden. Everyone has to wait.

[khengool 0]

I find it laughable that being legally committed to marry in another country is actually penalized by the visa issuers.

If your wedding date is planned already, you have paid the filing fees, and submitted all other portions of the K3, you shouldn't have to wait to get married to file. What's the harm in showing them the bona fide marriage documents and evidence during the interview? It puts a big burden on those of us whose countries of origin and religions do not allow us to have a non-legal marriage.

If there wasn't a precedent accounting for similar things in the K1 Visa i would understand, but given that the K1 allows provisions for marriage by proxy if it is an accepted cultural and religious practice in the country of origin, I don't see why similar provisions wouldn't be made for people who want to file a K3 without being legally married yet, but plan to be before their interview.

What are referring to when you mention provisions to marry by proxy with the K1 visa? For couples with the K1 visa, they must marry in the US within 90 days of the foreign half of the couple using the K1 visa to enter the states.

I'm sorry I do not understand what the big burden is. The only thing different from what you were hoping for is that the process will take longer than you expected. I do not see why that is a huge burden. Everyone has to wait.

On the K1 form there is a justification section for not having met your K1 applicant in person before, and it clearly states that you should explain any religious or cultural reasons for not having done so already. Once you get the visa everything proceeds as normal. It is basically accounting for arranged marriages from what I understand.

In regards to the "burden" the current K3/K1 system has a broad disconnect for those that have already decided and made a commitment to marry but have not done so yet. There are some of us who have actually spent quite a bit of time with our fiances and their families to the point where the 90-day "i don't like you as much as i thought i did so you have to go back home clause" is not needed.

Some countries only provide one exit visa per year to expatriates. It would be to the benefit of all concerned if applicants with such a situation could begin the filing and interview appointment process ahead of time. This would definitely prevent the huge rush of applications that occur during and immediately after the summer as well as during and immediately after the winter holidays.

By adjusting the K1 visa to allow applicants to get married in their home country during the K1 process or by adjusting the K3 visa to be used before being married to set up appointments after it, this gap would be filled.

I have no problem with waiting, I have a problem with being penalized for having foresight and committing to marry someone before having lived with them. In my country and in many other countries, getting married or engaged isn't something that people are supposed to do to test the waters. Engagement is a firm commitment. The way the current K1 visa is set up seems to benefit those who would like to "feel out" their partner by living with them, which is totally fine and acceptable, but for some of us, this is not needed and is not an option we have based on our religion and culture.

[MargotDarko 0]

I find it laughable that being legally committed to marry in another country is actually penalized by the visa issuers.

If your wedding date is planned already, you have paid the filing fees, and submitted all other portions of the K3, you shouldn't have to wait to get married to file. What's the harm in showing them the bona fide marriage documents and evidence during the interview? It puts a big burden on those of us whose countries of origin and religions do not allow us to have a non-legal marriage.

If there wasn't a precedent accounting for similar things in the K1 Visa i would understand, but given that the K1 allows provisions for marriage by proxy if it is an accepted cultural and religious practice in the country of origin, I don't see why similar provisions wouldn't be made for people who want to file a K3 without being legally married yet, but plan to be before their interview.

What are referring to when you mention provisions to marry by proxy with the K1 visa? For couples with the K1 visa, they must marry in the US within 90 days of the foreign half of the couple using the K1 visa to enter the states.

I'm sorry I do not understand what the big burden is. The only thing different from what you were hoping for is that the process will take longer than you expected. I do not see why that is a huge burden. Everyone has to wait.

On the K1 form there is a justification section for not having met your K1 applicant in person before, and it clearly states that you should explain any religious or cultural reasons for not having done so already. Once you get the visa everything proceeds as normal. It is basically accounting for arranged marriages from what I understand.

In regards to the "burden" the current K3/K1 system has a broad disconnect for those that have already decided and made a commitment to marry but have not done so yet. There are some of us who have actually spent quite a bit of time with our fiances and their families to the point where the 90-day "i don't like you as much as i thought i did so you have to go back home clause" is not needed.

Some countries only provide one exit visa per year to expatriates. It would be to the benefit of all concerned if applicants with such a situation could begin the filing and interview appointment process ahead of time. This would definitely prevent the huge rush of applications that occur during and immediately after the summer as well as during and immediately after the winter holidays.

By adjusting the K1 visa to allow applicants to get married in their home country during the K1 process or by adjusting the K3 visa to be used before being married to set up appointments after it, this gap would be filled.

I have no problem with waiting, I have a problem with being penalized for having foresight and committing to marry someone before having lived with them. In my country and in many other countries, getting married or engaged isn't something that people are supposed to do to test the waters. Engagement is a firm commitment. The way the current K1 visa is set up seems to benefit those who would like to "feel out" their partner by living with them, which is totally fine and acceptable, but for some of us, this is not needed and is not an option we have based on our religion and culture.

Having the option to justify having not met in person for the K1 visa is very different from being able to marry by proxy with the K1 visa.

Also, there are a couple major advantages to the K3 visa over the K1 visa. First, the K3 visa is good for multiple entries. The K1 visa can be only used once - then you need to pay and apply for Advanced Parole in order to leave the US and return before the green card. Second, you can file for Adjustment of Status immediately after entering the US with the K3 visa, then you can have work authorisation three months later. With the K1 visa, you must marry first and obtain the marriage certificate before being able to file adjustment of status.

If you do not mind waiting, I still don't see where you're being penalised over couples getting the K1 visa.

I don't mean to say there is nothing wrong with the system or no room for improvement.

[rika60607 215]

Ooh, may be I understand what khengool's problem is?

1) She wants to have a religious and legal wedding in Iran, so K1 is no use for her.

2) She wants to go to US very soon after marriage, so K3 as is is not convenient, as it would involve a long waiting period after marriage.

What can I say... yeah it is sad we can not always get what we want... especially when government rules are involved... but what can you do?... only complain and hope that some day immigration process will improve

[pushbrk 12,878]

USCIS has not focused on catering to the whim and convenience of US Citizens but has provided a fiance(e) visa option and two marriage visa options. Take your choice. You asked a question and got an answer. It's a fact, not a spouse. The answer is not going to change because you complained about it.