In the debate over Iraq, it's vet vs vet

[one...two...tree 2,762]

By ANNE FLAHERTY, Associated Press Writer

Despite their opposing views on the war, soldiers Pete Hegseth and Jon Soltz have much in common, not the least of which is time spent in Iraq.

Both profess their love of the Army. They are young, athletic and clean-shaven, and they speak eloquently about honor and a sense of duty, as though plucked from central casting to play the role of the patriotic soldier. Above all, they draw heavily on their experiences in combat to justify their views on Iraq, hoping their message will resonate with voters because they — unlike most of America — have witnessed combat.

They also represent dueling activist groups that are fast becoming a powerful lobbying force on Capitol Hill. And to politicians trying to make their case in anticipation of a critical assessment on the war this September, such groups have become valuable public relations tools in the deeply partisan, pull-no-punches Iraq debate.

"The Democrats, unfortunately, are trying to undermine the efforts of our troops and restrict the ability of our generals to carry out their mission," Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said at a July news conference with Hegseth and other members of the group Vets for Freedom, which supports a continued U.S. presence in Iraq.

Later that week, Hegseth — a National Guard soldier who worked as a civil affairs officer in Samarra last year — stood behind President Bush in a news conference chastising Democrats for not passing a spending bill for the troops.

"These patriotic Americans who are behind us deserve an opportunity to be heard," McConnell said.

Democrats agree they should rely on the counsel of troops. They just opt to listen to Soltz, a captain in the Army Reserves who deployed logistics convoys in Iraq with the 1st Armored Division in 2003. His group, VoteVets.org, says Bush should bring troops home.

Politicians play on the expectation among voters that because the military is supposed to be apolitical and service members experience combat first-hand, troops will offer an unvarnished assessment of the war.

"Their status as combat veterans gives them an authenticity that politicians don't have," said Darrell West, political science professor at Brown University. "Voters will always see them as combat veterans first, not advocates."

Still, advocates they are, with extensive political ties and budgets for televised political ads.

Both Vets for Freedom and VoteVets.org are tax-exempt nonprofits, but they are not charities. Such groups deliberately do not accept tax-deductible donations — making it tougher to raise money but giving them free reign to lobby on Capitol Hill.

Soltz' VoteVets.org also operates a separate political action committee and has officially endorsed six candidates for the 2008 elections. The group has spent about $850,000 this year on political ads, including local spots during the Super Bowl aimed mostly at pressuring Republican senators into breaking with Bush on the war.

Its board of advisers includes retired Gen. Wesley Clark, a Vietnam veteran who sought the 2004 Democratic presidential nomination, and former Democratic Sen. Bob Kerrey, also a veteran of the Vietnam War. It's affiliated with the Americans Against Escalation in Iraq, a coalition of anti-war groups that includes the partisan MoveOn.org, which backed Democratic challengers in the last election.

Soltz suggests his group's ties to the Democratic Party reflect a bigger movement under way within the military.

"I think you're seeing a paradigm shift in the military, from those who served being fairly passive Republicans to being more active and opposed to what the current leadership is doing," Soltz said.

Hegseth's Vets for Freedom is firmly rooted in politics as well, but with Republican ties instead. The group has worked with former White House spokesman Taylor Gross, and Campaign Solutions — headed by Republican consultant R. Rebecca Donatelli — helps manage its online media.

Adriel Domenech, the press contact for the group, is a former intern with the Republican National Committee and worked on Bush's 2004 campaign in Colorado. Most recently, Domenech worked for 13 months in Iraq for the State Department public affairs office under Bush.

This month, Vets for Freedom launched political ads in five states — Minnesota, Kentucky, Connecticut, Nebraska and Virginia — in a bid to shore up support for Bush's Iraq policies among key senators. The ads feature young combat veterans urging members to fight al-Qaida and thanking them for their support of continued military involvement in Iraq.

Hegseth said the group is still nonpartisan. In July, the group tried to meet with members of both parties and are pushing to sit down with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev.

"We stand with those who stand with the mission," he said in a recent interview. "I don't care if you're Republican or Democrat. ... If you believe it's important to finish the mission in Iraq, we will stand with you."

Soltz and Hegseth readily acknowledge they don't speak on behalf of the military and are careful not to lobby in uniform, as prohibited under Pentagon rules.

Both say they are proud of the advocacy roles their groups play on Capitol Hill and think troops should share their experiences on the ground.

"Those who served have a duty to speak out for those who are on active duty and cannot," said Soltz. "As long as they follow the rules about doing so, all Iraq and Afghanistan veterans need to get involved."

Hegseth said personal experience enhances the debate but that it should be done without a political agenda.

"It can become dangerous when troops use their status as a veteran to talk about their own political beliefs," he said. "But when troops are talking about their mission and the importance of their mission and why the strategy being used is successful, or why it's different or why it could be altered, I think that's important."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070814/ap_on_...FS.RmdhPfGWwvIE

[Raspect 0]

Yeah I read this just an hour ago also. It is quite wild stuff.

But my 2 cents.

1 cent - Hi Charles of CharlesnNessa

2nd cent - Impeach Bush

Too many poor folks are dying!!!!!

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Yeah I read this just an hour ago also. It is quite wild stuff.

But my 2 cents.

1 cent - Hi Charles of CharlesnNessa

2nd cent - Impeach Bush

Too many poor folks are dying!!!!!

Who should we impeach for this?

Approximately 1500 people die each day in the United States due to cancer. About 3,400 people are diagnosed with cancer each day in the U.S.

http://cancer.about.com/od/cancerfactsands...dailydeaths.htm

[Dan J 277]

Yeah I read this just an hour ago also. It is quite wild stuff.

But my 2 cents.

1 cent - Hi Charles of CharlesnNessa

2nd cent - Impeach Bush

Too many poor folks are dying!!!!!

Who should we impeach for this?

Approximately 1500 people die each day in the United States due to cancer. About 3,400 people are diagnosed with cancer each day in the U.S.

http://cancer.about.com/od/cancerfactsands...dailydeaths.htm

Can you choose to have have cancer?

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Yeah I read this just an hour ago also. It is quite wild stuff.

But my 2 cents.

1 cent - Hi Charles of CharlesnNessa

2nd cent - Impeach Bush

Too many poor folks are dying!!!!!

Who should we impeach for this?

Approximately 1500 people die each day in the United States due to cancer. About 3,400 people are diagnosed with cancer each day in the U.S.

http://cancer.about.com/od/cancerfactsands...dailydeaths.htm

Can you choose to have have cancer?

Putting death in categories? If it makes you feel better, go ahead and think that. If my brother died from cancer or a gun shot. wheather it be from Iraq or the street.

Death is death! How you categoize it does not change the pain of it, now does it?

[Raspect 0]

Yeah I read this just an hour ago also. It is quite wild stuff.

But my 2 cents.

1 cent - Hi Charles of CharlesnNessa

2nd cent - Impeach Bush

Too many poor folks are dying!!!!!

Who should we impeach for this?

Approximately 1500 people die each day in the United States due to cancer. About 3,400 people are diagnosed with cancer each day in the U.S.

http://cancer.about.com/od/cancerfactsands...dailydeaths.htm

Can you choose to have have cancer?

Putting death in categories? If it makes you feel better, go ahead and think that. If my brother died from cancer or a gun shot. wheather it be from Iraq or the street.

Death is death! How you categoize it does not change the pain of it, now does it?

I am not going to categorize death, but what your saying really makes no sense to me. It is like saying you smoked 2 packs a day and you got cancer that way. Or, better yet, finding out you have cancer, and knowing if you get treatment you can kill the cancer, and just sitting there, doing nothing, then at the end, saying, hey this is not right, why is the cancer picking on me.

You are comparing two deaths, neither death was chosen, but one could have been avoided and the other could not have.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Yeah I read this just an hour ago also. It is quite wild stuff.

But my 2 cents.

1 cent - Hi Charles of CharlesnNessa

2nd cent - Impeach Bush

Too many poor folks are dying!!!!!

Who should we impeach for this?

Approximately 1500 people die each day in the United States due to cancer. About 3,400 people are diagnosed with cancer each day in the U.S.

http://cancer.about.com/od/cancerfactsands...dailydeaths.htm

Can you choose to have have cancer?

Putting death in categories? If it makes you feel better, go ahead and think that. If my brother died from cancer or a gun shot. wheather it be from Iraq or the street.

Death is death! How you categoize it does not change the pain of it, now does it?

I am not going to categorize death, but what your saying really makes no sense to me. It is like saying you smoked 2 packs a day and you got cancer that way. Or, better yet, finding out you have cancer, and knowing if you get treatment you can kill the cancer, and just sitting there, doing nothing, then at the end, saying, hey this is not right, why is the cancer picking on me.

You are comparing two deaths, neither death was chosen, but one could have been avoided and the other could not have.

Oh man, Could the person who got killed in one of the hundreds of car accidents that occur daily in the streets of any city in the world been avoided? Of course. My point is when people emphasize a death as useless or accidental.

A soldier who dies fighting against people that would rather see your head seperated from your torso as useless,is a rather twisted way of thinking. After all, i see posts everyday here about murder and rape. The first thing said is kill the bastage! do this, do that, blah blah blah. See how emphasizing and categorizing a death can do to ones opinion in the big picture. People eat it up like it was candy.

[Raspect 0]

Yeah I read this just an hour ago also. It is quite wild stuff.

But my 2 cents.

1 cent - Hi Charles of CharlesnNessa

2nd cent - Impeach Bush

Too many poor folks are dying!!!!!

Who should we impeach for this?

Approximately 1500 people die each day in the United States due to cancer. About 3,400 people are diagnosed with cancer each day in the U.S.

http://cancer.about.com/od/cancerfactsands...dailydeaths.htm

Can you choose to have have cancer?

Putting death in categories? If it makes you feel better, go ahead and think that. If my brother died from cancer or a gun shot. wheather it be from Iraq or the street.

Death is death! How you categoize it does not change the pain of it, now does it?

I am not going to categorize death, but what your saying really makes no sense to me. It is like saying you smoked 2 packs a day and you got cancer that way. Or, better yet, finding out you have cancer, and knowing if you get treatment you can kill the cancer, and just sitting there, doing nothing, then at the end, saying, hey this is not right, why is the cancer picking on me.

You are comparing two deaths, neither death was chosen, but one could have been avoided and the other could not have.

Oh man, Could the person who got killed in one of the hundreds of car accidents that occur daily in the streets of any city in the world been avoided? Of course. My point is when people emphasize a death as useless or accidental.

A soldier who dies fighting against people that would rather see your head seperated from your torso as useless,is a rather twisted way of thinking. After all, i see posts everyday here about murder and rape. The first thing said is kill the bastage! do this, do that, blah blah blah. See how emphasizing and categorizing a death can do to ones opinion in the big picture. People eat it up like it was candy.

Ok, Listen, I am not NOT NOT categorizing death. But you rationalization that soldiers dying for the objective of a few with much much power is somehow similar to cancer. That just cannot make sense to me at all.

By not saying anything, like STOP this bloodbath where 10,000 innocent Iraqi mothers and children are dying and US soldiers are dying also, in a country that, well, nevermind, but that is similar to doing nothing for cancer research while thousands and thousands die of cancer.

That is my point, you must say no to this sick lickle bast@rd now!! Before he kills countless thousand more for his sick little perversions, whatever those may be.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Ok, Listen, I am not NOT NOT categorizing death. But you rationalization that soldiers dying for the objective of a few with much much power is somehow similar to cancer. That just cannot make sense to me at all.

By not saying anything, like STOP this bloodbath where 10,000 innocent Iraqi mothers and children are dying and US soldiers are dying also, in a country that, well, nevermind, but that is similar to doing nothing for cancer research while thousands and thousands die of cancer.

That is my point, you must say no to this sick lickle bast@rd now!! Before he kills countless thousand more for his sick little perversions, whatever those may be.

Blinded by hate, all the while trying to show compassion. Oh by the way the killers are in Iraq.

Edited August 15, 2007 by CarolsMarc

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Someone chose to put our troops in the crosshairs. That was avoidable.

[Raspect 0]

Ok, Listen, I am not NOT NOT categorizing death. But you rationalization that soldiers dying for the objective of a few with much much power is somehow similar to cancer. That just cannot make sense to me at all.

By not saying anything, like STOP this bloodbath where 10,000 innocent Iraqi mothers and children are dying and US soldiers are dying also, in a country that, well, nevermind, but that is similar to doing nothing for cancer research while thousands and thousands die of cancer.

That is my point, you must say no to this sick lickle bast@rd now!! Before he kills countless thousand more for his sick little perversions, whatever those may be.

Blinded by hate, all the while trying to show compassion. Oh by the way the killers are in Iraq.

Oh by the way, NOW NOW NOW, you make absolutely no sense. Blinded by stupidity or hate. I will not call YOU stupid, or hateful. But certainly your position here is one of that.

P.S. Fox news is not credible, nor fair and balanced. LISTEN TO THIS, hahah yesterday those jokers reported it as true, a headline news story, completely legit, that Michael Vick has ties to Al-Quida

[Ban Hammer 13,337]

Ok, Listen, I am not NOT NOT categorizing death. But you rationalization that soldiers dying for the objective of a few with much much power is somehow similar to cancer. That just cannot make sense to me at all.

By not saying anything, like STOP this bloodbath where 10,000 innocent Iraqi mothers and children are dying and US soldiers are dying also, in a country that, well, nevermind, but that is similar to doing nothing for cancer research while thousands and thousands die of cancer.

That is my point, you must say no to this sick lickle bast@rd now!! Before he kills countless thousand more for his sick little perversions, whatever those may be.

Blinded by hate, all the while trying to show compassion. Oh by the way the killers are in Iraq.

Oh by the way, NOW NOW NOW, you make absolutely no sense. Blinded by stupidity or hate. I will not call YOU stupid, or hateful. But certainly your position here is one of that.

P.S. Fox news is not credible, nor fair and balanced. LISTEN TO THIS, hahah yesterday those jokers reported it as true, a headline news story, completely legit, that Michael Vick has ties to Al-Quida

so you can provide a link for that, correct?

[Raspect 0]

Blinded by hate, all the while trying to show compassion. Oh by the way the killers are in Iraq.

Oh by the way, NOW NOW NOW, you make absolutely no sense. Blinded by stupidity or hate. I will not call YOU stupid, or hateful. But certainly your position here is one of that.

P.S. Fox news is not credible, nor fair and balanced. LISTEN TO THIS, hahah yesterday those jokers reported it as true, a headline news story, completely legit, that Michael Vick has ties to Al-Quida

so you can provide a link for that, correct?

This guy never NEVER ceases to amaze me. That is why I had to say hi to him in my 2 cents, correct?? hahahahah we should go for lunch, I like people like you!!!

http://www.epiccarnival.com/2007/07/michae...o-al-qaeda.html

I was at the YMCA working out when i saw YOUR friends at the trustworthy, fair and balanced news source of FOX report this actual news story as a headline. This is not your credible news station Charles, , but i did see this on Fox, I am sure you can find it there if you look.

YOU"RE THE BEST!!!!

[Raspect 0]

Oh by the way, NOW NOW NOW, you make absolutely no sense. Blinded by stupidity or hate. I will not call YOU stupid, or hateful. But certainly your position here is one of that.

P.S. Fox news is not credible, nor fair and balanced. LISTEN TO THIS, hahah yesterday those jokers reported it as true, a headline news story, completely legit, that Michael Vick has ties to Al-Quida

so you can provide a link for that, correct?

Here you go cutie Charles

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,293268,00.html

Edited August 16, 2007 by Raspect

[Ban Hammer 13,337]

This guy never NEVER ceases to amaze me. That is why I had to say hi to him in my 2 cents, correct?? hahahahah we should go for lunch, I like people like you!!!

http://www.epiccarnival.com/2007/07/michae...o-al-qaeda.html

I was at the YMCA working out when i saw YOUR friends at the trustworthy, fair and balanced news source of FOX report this actual news story as a headline. This is not your credible news station Charles, , but i did see this on Fox, I am sure you can find it there if you look.

YOU"RE THE BEST!!!!

it sounds more like your news station as you were watching it, not me

after reviewing the link, it does look to be a legit news story although the one filing the suit is obviously out of his mind.