Recognizng the signs

[Caladan 19]

That's definitely true, but I think it's unhelpful to phrase it as 'Why were you surprised?' with the implication being that 'everyone over there hits their wives.'

[chri'stina 190]

That's definitely true, but I think it's unhelpful to phrase it as 'Why were you surprised?' with the implication being that 'everyone over there hits their wives.'

True.

[peezey 0]

I agree that of course there isn't only one country that has problems with abuse and the US is definitely not immune to it, but this thread in the title says "culture or batterer".

While I don't totally agree with Boo-Yahs comment, partly he has a point. If some people in other threads were saying "in such and such country, it's more common for abuse to happen in this place or that place..." that means it might be more hush hush there and maybe the woman has less power to do anything about it. I could say the same about India where my SO is from, in the rural areas I am sure the women probably can't do much about it.

While it happens in the US, it is not the norm and is not acceptable in this society as far as the law goes, and most people here do not accept it as okay. So if someone is coming from a country where there is more abuse going on and less punishment of abusers, then it should not be surprising, as Boo-Yah said, that things are viewed differently there. I better know my SO's opinion of abuse if he's coming from a country where it's not punished nearly as often.

How can you possibly say it's not the norm? Something that happens to 25% (reported only, what goes unreported?) of women is a HUGE number. Lots of things are illegal but are rampant.

The point of the MENA poll is to disprove the silly comments people are making about it being normal in MENA. Just because a few women want to tell themselves that to explain DV away, doesn't make it so.

Edited August 15, 2007 by peezey

[chri'stina 190]

I agree that of course there isn't only one country that has problems with abuse and the US is definitely not immune to it, but this thread in the title says "culture or batterer".

While I don't totally agree with Boo-Yahs comment, partly he has a point. If some people in other threads were saying "in such and such country, it's more common for abuse to happen in this place or that place..." that means it might be more hush hush there and maybe the woman has less power to do anything about it. I could say the same about India where my SO is from, in the rural areas I am sure the women probably can't do much about it.

While it happens in the US, it is not the norm and is not acceptable in this society as far as the law goes, and most people here do not accept it as okay. So if someone is coming from a country where there is more abuse going on and less punishment of abusers, then it should not be surprising, as Boo-Yah said, that things are viewed differently there. I better know my SO's opinion of abuse if he's coming from a country where it's not punished nearly as often.

How can you possibly say it's not the norm? Something that happens to 25% of women is a HUGE number. Lots of things are illegal but are rampant.

If all the abuse was reported, things could be done about it. Such as the case of Secret_Identity, who dropped the charges after getting him to court. So I don't think it's the norm when there are laws to protect women from it. Whether they take advantage of the laws or not is the issue. In some countries(or in areas of a country), the women don't even have the chance to take the man to court. And why is because it's more of the norm there and the gov't is maybe less concerned about their situations. It's a big difference to me. One is a place where you have the choice to leave and press charges and expect something might be done about it, and the other is a place where you may not be able to do anything about it.

Edited August 15, 2007 by stina&suj

[ya falaha! 0]

Although it's not a rarity in the US, DV is still considered somewhat "shocking" here. How many times have we all heard stories about so and so and the abuse they endured? How many times did we all act surprised about this sort of behavior? In many areas of MENA this behavior is not shocking. It really is somewhat "normal". When I tell my husband of the different stories I've read on VJ about abuse by the hands of MENA men (Egyptian specifically) he says, that's "normal" in Egypt. Meaning...ppl tend to ignore these behaviors more often there and that the police most likely doesn't get involved. I'm sure not all areas of MENA consider this normal behavior but much of it does. That being said, just because it's considered more "normal" there doesn't mean it's acceptable.

My husband does not condone nor accept this sort of behavior. He's very adamently against it.

I agree that of course there isn't only one country that has problems with abuse and the US is definitely not immune to it, but this thread in the title says "culture or batterer".

While I don't totally agree with Boo-Yahs comment, partly he has a point. If some people in other threads were saying "in such and such country, it's more common for abuse to happen in this place or that place..." that means it might be more hush hush there and maybe the woman has less power to do anything about it. I could say the same about India where my SO is from, in the rural areas I am sure the women probably can't do much about it.

While it happens in the US, it is not the norm and is not acceptable in this society as far as the law goes, and most people here do not accept it as okay. So if someone is coming from a country where there is more abuse going on and less punishment of abusers, then it should not be surprising, as Boo-Yah said, that things are viewed differently there. I better know my SO's opinion of abuse if he's coming from a country where it's not punished nearly as often.

How can you possibly say it's not the norm? Something that happens to 25% (reported only, what goes unreported?) of women is a HUGE number. Lots of things are illegal but are rampant.

The point of the MENA poll is to disprove the silly comments people are making about it being normal in MENA. Just because a few women want to tell themselves that to explain DV away, doesn't make it so.

[isleta521 5]

We can plead with these ladies to "GET OUT" all we want...the reality is they have to WANT to get out. They have to find the strength and courage to make that first step. Been there myself...and that first step is always the hardest. But it CAN BE DONE. I just hope these two ladies choose to take care of themselves in this way.

What is it about women that makes them so afraid of being alone that they would

rather be in an abusive relationship?

It's pretty much a gradual process. At first it's little annoying signs like accusing you playfully and just goes on from there. The abuser will break down their self esteem to where the abused will feel that no one else would ever want them. It's all about manipulation and it takes time to wear down the defenses that normally wouldnt let this happen. Then it's, "I'm doing you a favor for putting up with you." type of guilt trip thats just a form of brainwashing and keeps the abused in a helpless deadend type of existence.

My aunt who is a very strong person was in such a relationship which at the time I was to young to knw and is still hard for me to believe. She was not even allowed to get the mail out of the mailbox nor could she be seen by a doctor. She almost died because he did not want the doctor touching "his property" (not to mention the physical abuse that almost killed her also).

A sad reality for some people but like somebody said, GTFO as fast as you can. It only gets worse and NEVER gets better.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

If all the abuse was reported, things could be done about it. Such as the case of Secret_Identity, who dropped the charges after getting him to court. So I don't think it's the norm when there are laws to protect women from it. Whether they take advantage of the laws or not is the issue. In some countries(or in areas of a country), the women don't even have the chance to take the man to court. And why is because it's more of the norm there and the gov't is maybe less concerned about their situations. It's a big difference to me. One is a place where you have the choice to leave and press charges and expect something might be done about it, and the other is a place where you may not be able to do anything about it.

Hmmmmm this only makes me wonder how much more prevalent domestic violence would be in the U.S. if there WERE no laws against it.

Again, the 25 % is only the "reported" cases. As with rape, the true number is likely far, far higher.

Still not looking so great for the "we're better than them" argument.

[chri'stina 190]

If all the abuse was reported, things could be done about it. Such as the case of Secret_Identity, who dropped the charges after getting him to court. So I don't think it's the norm when there are laws to protect women from it. Whether they take advantage of the laws or not is the issue. In some countries(or in areas of a country), the women don't even have the chance to take the man to court. And why is because it's more of the norm there and the gov't is maybe less concerned about their situations. It's a big difference to me. One is a place where you have the choice to leave and press charges and expect something might be done about it, and the other is a place where you may not be able to do anything about it.

Hmmmmm this only makes me wonder how much more prevalent domestic violence would be in the U.S. if there WERE no laws against it.

Again, the 25 % is only the "reported" cases. As with rape, the true number is likely far, far higher.

Still not looking so great for the "we're better than them" argument.

I agree. I still don't think that the US and countries where less is done about abuse can really be called the same on this issue though. And I guess it's the laws that might make a difference, and that abusers will be abusers no matter what country they are in. The difference would be that if they know they can get away with it, it would be more prevalent I'd think.

[mawilson 2,133]

I can sort of understand why a 50-year-old USC man would want to mail order a

20-year-old Russian model, but why on God's green earth would a USC woman

willfully import an abusive husband from the MENA?

Is there a shortage of abusive bastards here in the US?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I can sort of understand why a 50-year-old USC man would want to mail order a

20-year-old Russian model, but why on God's green earth would a USC woman

willfully import an abusive husband from the MENA?

Is there a shortage of abusive bastards here in the US?

I don't know why ANY woman would want ANY abusive man, imported or otherwise.

[un_known 0]

I agree with you to a large degree DM, but I still believe that deep down they have to want the strength to get out...and by virtue of posting their experiences here is a way of garnering support and advice that could very well give them the courage and strength needed to GET THE HELL OUT!

BTW, I'm not just yakking off at the mouth...I *WAS* the victim of spousal abuse. Was being the operative word.

Karen,

I know exactly what you are saying - the first abusive relationship has scarred me for life and to this day I am strrugling with my self acceptance - I still feel that I am undeserving and what is happening in my life right now is my own responsability...I hope that I will get out in time before things will escalate. for now I am just playing safe and hoping that he will leave on his own accord...

[un_known 0]

We can plead with these ladies to "GET OUT" all we want...the reality is they have to WANT to get out. They have to find the strength and courage to make that first step. Been there myself...and that first step is always the hardest. But it CAN BE DONE. I just hope these two ladies choose to take care of themselves in this way.

What is it about women that makes them so afraid of being alone that they would

rather be in an abusive relationship?

It's pretty much a gradual process. At first it's little annoying signs like accusing you playfully and just goes on from there. The abuser will break down their self esteem to where the abused will feel that no one else would ever want them. It's all about manipulation and it takes time to wear down the defenses that normally wouldnt let this happen. Then it's, "I'm doing you a favor for putting up with you." type of guilt trip thats just a form of brainwashing and keeps the abused in a helpless deadend type of existence.

My aunt who is a very strong person was in such a relationship which at the time I was to young to knw and is still hard for me to believe. She was not even allowed to get the mail out of the mailbox nor could she be seen by a doctor. She almost died because he did not want the doctor touching "his property" (not to mention the physical abuse that almost killed her also).

A sad reality for some people but like somebody said, GTFO as fast as you can. It only gets worse and NEVER gets better.

not always the fear is of being alone. in my case it was the fear of the person who was treathning me constantly. I was afraid that his threats will come true. Back then both of us were here illegally - overstayed on turist visas and he was always making me feel that if I do something to him i will find myself out of this country. So in my case being alone is what i want - 'ALONE AT LAST" - that is my motto these days.

[Carolyn 1]

I don't think anyone would WILLINGLY importing abusive spouses. Many abusive people can have very charming, attentive and seemingly "loving" personalities and hide their nasty sides for quite some time. Sure, there might be some "signs" of potentially abusive behavior, but women often put on their blinders when they are in love. And maybe people think that an undesirable behavior is just a difference in culture, so they rationalize it instead of running away.

On a side note, I'm not so sure that the 20-year-old Russian models/mail order brides are any easier to deal with than men from the Middle East/ North Africa!

[secret_identity2 0]

I don't think anyone would WILLINGLY importing abusive spouses. Many abusive people can have very charming, attentive and seemingly "loving" personalities and hide their nasty sides for quite some time. Sure, there might be some "signs" of potentially abusive behavior, but women often put on their blinders when they are in love. And maybe people think that an undesirable behavior is just a difference in culture, so they rationalize it instead of running away.

On a side note, I'm not so sure that the 20-year-old Russian models/mail order brides are any easier to deal with than men from the Middle East/ North Africa!

Exactly.

[peezey 0]

I agree that of course there isn't only one country that has problems with abuse and the US is definitely not immune to it, but this thread in the title says "culture or batterer".

While I don't totally agree with Boo-Yahs comment, partly he has a point. If some people in other threads were saying "in such and such country, it's more common for abuse to happen in this place or that place..." that means it might be more hush hush there and maybe the woman has less power to do anything about it. I could say the same about India where my SO is from, in the rural areas I am sure the women probably can't do much about it.

While it happens in the US, it is not the norm and is not acceptable in this society as far as the law goes, and most people here do not accept it as okay. So if someone is coming from a country where there is more abuse going on and less punishment of abusers, then it should not be surprising, as Boo-Yah said, that things are viewed differently there. I better know my SO's opinion of abuse if he's coming from a country where it's not punished nearly as often.

How can you possibly say it's not the norm? Something that happens to 25% of women is a HUGE number. Lots of things are illegal but are rampant.

If all the abuse was reported, things could be done about it. Such as the case of Secret_Identity, who dropped the charges after getting him to court. So I don't think it's the norm when there are laws to protect women from it. Whether they take advantage of the laws or not is the issue. In some countries(or in areas of a country), the women don't even have the chance to take the man to court. And why is because it's more of the norm there and the gov't is maybe less concerned about their situations. It's a big difference to me. One is a place where you have the choice to leave and press charges and expect something might be done about it, and the other is a place where you may not be able to do anything about it.

So do you know anything about domestic violence laws in MENA? Because your assertions here are plain wrong. And whether or not a woman presses charges has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not she experiences abuse. You agreed with BooYah that it is more prevalent in MENA. Your assertion is incorrect and has nothing to do with what is or isn't illegal.