The hadith is not islam!

[basboosa 0]

Never Quraan and Hadith become opposite each other

Just we may not understand and try to understand not try to make difference between them

Also if any one become confused from any think in Elhadith he should ask AL3OLAMA

As when become ill we ask doctor and when we want to build house we ask engineer we should ask the people who have Al3em alshar3y

not any one allow him self to talk with ignorance

[The_dip_sticks 0]

Never Quraan and Hadith become opposite each other

Just we may not understand and try to understand not try to make difference between them

Also if any one become confused from any think in Elhadith he should ask AL3OLAMA

As when become ill we ask doctor and when we want to build house we ask engineer we should ask the people who have Al3em alshar3y

not any one allow him self to talk with ignorance

I have already answered a similar argument please read page 7. Also this has nothing to do with being ill or building a house as you put it. its's to do with spiritual matters and that is between one soul and God. But you keep going to you're so called scolars if that makes you happy. I'll just ask God. I wish you the best.

Adiel (Mireya's hubby)

[mybackpages 0]

Never Quraan and Hadith become opposite each other

Just we may not understand and try to understand not try to make difference between them

Also if any one become confused from any think in Elhadith he should ask AL3OLAMA

As when become ill we ask doctor and when we want to build house we ask engineer we should ask the people who have Al3em alshar3y

not any one allow him self to talk with ignorance

I have already answered a similar argument please read page 7. Also this has nothing to do with being ill or building a house as you put it. its's to do with spiritual matters and that is between one soul and God. But you keep going to you're so called scolars if that makes you happy. I'll just ask God. I wish you the best.

Adiel (Mireya's hubby)

Adiel, it might be more helpful to place the post # rather than the page. for example i have my setting to show more posts on a single page than the default setting.

[The_dip_sticks 0]

Never Quraan and Hadith become opposite each other

Just we may not understand and try to understand not try to make difference between them

Also if any one become confused from any think in Elhadith he should ask AL3OLAMA

As when become ill we ask doctor and when we want to build house we ask engineer we should ask the people who have Al3em alshar3y

not any one allow him self to talk with ignorance

I have already answered a similar argument please read page 7. Also this has nothing to do with being ill or building a house as you put it. its's to do with spiritual matters and that is between one soul and God. But you keep going to you're so called scolars if that makes you happy. I'll just ask God. I wish you the best.

Adiel (Mireya's hubby)

Adiel, it might be more helpful to place the post # rather than the page. for example i have my setting to show more posts on a single page than the default setting.

Yes good idea

[chiquita 0]

it is my understanding the kaabah was considered/used for idol worship. or the place was. i just never figured how it became something a Muslim should do/visit because of the origins of the place.

i am not getting my thoughts across too well, i am sorry. i would like to know more about the Hajj and where it says it is important in the holy Quran.

for those who feel this is not a subject for VJ MENA, i disagree. VJ MENA means more than immigration to some of us. it also means cross culture/religion amongs other issues.

thank you kindly

chi

My understanding is this- Abraham buildl the Kabah on the spot where Adam placed the first place of worship. Over the years the people of Mecca had forgotten the original teachings and its use had evolved into pagan worship. Muahmmad corrected this behavior and brought it back into its original use.

I know these verses specificall mention hajj in the Quran

Sura 22 (The pilgramage) "And proclaim that the people shall observe Hajj pilgrimage. They will come to you walking or riding on various exhausted (means of transportation). They will come from the farthest locations."

Sura 1 (the Cow) We have rendered the shrine (the Kaba) a focal point for the people, and a safe sanctuary. You may use Abraham's shrine as a prayer house. We commissioned Abraham and Ismail: "You shall purify My house for those who visit, those who live there, and those who bow and

prostrate." and

The knolls of Safa and Marwah are among the rites decreed by GOD. Anyone who observes Hajj or `Umrah commits no error by traversing the distance between them. If one volunteers more righteous works, then GOD is Appreciative, Omniscient.

Sura 3 (The family of Imran) The most important shrine established for the people is the one in Mecca; a blessed beacon for all the people. In it are clear signs: the station of Abraham. Anyone who enters it shall be granted safe passage. The people owe it to GOD that they shall observe Hajj to this shrine, when they can afford it. As for those who disbelieve, GOD does not need anyone.

ETA: oops should have read the thread to see i already left some of this info here before !

thank you!! i was doing my research and found out about it. so nice! thanks for where it is writen too!

chi

Any one think or believe that hadith is not essential in Eldeen he shoul be afraid that his or her eman in danger

and not even eman but also his eslam

Any word reach us from prophet muhammed and we became sure that this word is from him we have to ( i repeat we have to) believe it and obey his order

any one should read surat ( elnagm) 53:3and4

please donot lose your time in things deviate you from the true way

keep your self on the way of elhaq

Allahom ganebna alfetan ma zahar menha wa ma batan

danger? how so?

[coolred38 0]

confused808

What exactly do you want proof of concerning my previous post? All you have to do is look at any collection of hadeeth books....especially ones concerning women that are derogatory in nature, and see the rating it has.

Some Muslims feel that every single word that came out of the prophets mouth was divine revelation...but obviously that is not fact because not only does he seek guidance from his wives, the sahaba etc in religious matters(if he already had all the answers why seek guidance)....but God also rebukes him in the Quran and threatens him if he was to add his own words to the revelation(meaning that it was possible for him to do so)...this tells us that Only the Quran is from God and cant be changed....even by the prophet....and that not every word out side the Quran was revelation or he wouldnt be rebuked or need to seek guidance from others....hadeeth are man made and thus subject to corruption...period. Why is that so hard for some Muslims to understand? Hadeeth are useful if they backup the Quran...if they do not...if they contradict it...if they take away a right that the Quran gives us then we must disregard it because our prophet had no right to take away or add anything to our deen....his only job was to convey the message and lead by example.

The interesting thing about Islam is that there is no "pope" figure...no clergy sending down religious edict from on high that every Muslim MUST follow....there is nothing and nobody standing between each believer and God...we must hold ourselves accountable for what we ultimately believe and practice....would you rather put your trust and eternal soul in the hands of God and the Quran which will never lead you astray....or in manmade hadeeth that obviously fall far short of that? Wheres the choice really? Just a thought.

[m&n 0]

salam to u....

well i disagree.

Allah says in the quran " say: Obey Allah and His messenger: but if they turn back, Allah loveth not those who reject faith" suran 3 verse 32

" All who obey Allah and the Messenger are in the company of those on whom is the grace of Allah, of the prophets ( who teach) the sincere ( lovers of truth), the martyres, and the righteous ( who do good): Ah! How beautiful is their company" surah 4 verse 69

" O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His messenger, if ye believe in Allah and the last day: That is best and most suitable for final determintaion" suran 4 verse 59

" Those are limits set by Allah: those who obey Allah and His messenger will be admitted to gardens with rivers flowing beneath, to abide therein (forever) and that will be the supreme achievment" surah 4 verse 13

" But those who disobey Allah and His messenger and transgress His limits will be admitted to a fire, to abide therein: and they shall have a humiliating punishment" surah 4 verse 14

" Obey Allah, and obey the messenger. And beware (of evil): If ye do turn back, know ye that it is our messenger's duty to proclaim ( the message) in the clearest manner" surah 5 verse 92

Allah also says in the quran in surah 4 verse 80 :"He who obeys The Messenger, obeys Allah: But if any return away, We have not sent thee to watch over them"

These are only few ayat or verses that i managed to find now but im sure u and i know there are LOTS more and i will find them out for u insha Allah. Therefore u have to follow the hadiths that are said to be sahiha meaning they are approved they are correct!! all hadiths are categorized correct and weak and not correct. without hadiths u wdnt know how to fast or pray or perform hajj and alot of other things that are not explained in the quran and thats why Allah has sent a prophet to show us our deen. read more and u will know that when a hadith is labelled correct THEN IT IS CORRECT. read about how the hadiths were collected and how these people whom were asked the scholars have their full bioghraphy and know when they lived and where, with whom and for how long. the hadith that is actually narrated by different people with the same exact phrases, is correct. its a whole deep science its not easy for us to do or even study. i recommend u read more to know for sure that they are not corupted.

These scholars spent all their lifes collecting them and making sure they never noted anything down until a 100% sure. im telling u not yrs n yrs but ALL THEIR LIFE TIME. trust in Allah that his prophet does not speak of anything unless it was from Allah. " la yantiqo 3ani al hawa". Im not trying to convince u becoz Allah guides whomever He wants im only trying to shed some lights on true facts that will be here whether ppl believed in them or not:D

Finally sir i wd like to add this verse: " We only send the Messengers to give glad tidings and to give warnings. But the Unbelievers dispute with vain argument, in order therewith to weaken the truth, and they threat My signs and warnings as a jest" surah 18 verse 56Thank you for ur time, Raghda:D

Absolutely

[anxious 0]

I believe the hadith is a guide and explanation to the Quran.

Yes, the Quran says to pray...but where is the method of prayer explained,? In Hadith.

The Quran says to fast...but where are the guidelines to fasting? In Hadith.

I guess when I read certain bits of "explained" Islam to me, I don't feel the need to argue anyone down,

but rather I feel grateful that these views of Islam do not phase the majority of millions and millions of muslims around the world, and will continue to practice Islam the way we did before the emails, the notions, the new revelations...that keep trying to pop up.

Maryum

[coolred38 0]

"these views of Islam do not phase the majority of millions and millions of muslims around the world, and will continue to practice Islam the way we did before the emails, the notions, the new revelations...that keep trying to pop up."

Its a well known fact that illiteracy was the main factor in much of the practice of culture that passes for Islamic practice that we have today....Muslims in the past couldnt read...or if they could they couldnt get their hands on a Quran as there werent massed produced copies flooding the world back then....and so the handful of scholars and laymen that could read and write had a virtual empty slate(peoples minds) to work with....they could say that anything was Islam and hadeeth and therefore a "must" and who could object to that?....very few. And so now we have a lot of cultural practice masquerading as Islamic practice that has no merit or basis in the Quran and yet Muslims will defend their right to believe and practice it and claim the rest of us are inventing something new....the only reason much of this "new practice" is coming to light now(1400 years later) is because the Quran is massed produced and easy for everyone to read...the Net is available and easy to access....brains are open to researching and finding the truth and not just blindly being lead....but in the end...."to you your religion and to me mine"....as God so eloquently spoke in the Quran. Have a nice day.

[The_dip_sticks 0]

Thanks Maryum but your argument was already been addressed. Please see post 76 of this thread.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...t&p=1120955

Do you ever wonder how the prophet knew how to pray and fast during his time WITH OUT having a hadith to guide him? The answer is in the Quran plain and simple. The man made interpretations of the Quran poped up until after his death. If God wanted you to follow man made interpretations of the Quran why did he not have the many hadiths written out as well? Why follow something that God did not intend for you to follow? Do you trust man over God? A better question to ask your self is, are you willing follow Gods final word and will or that of the person who wrote the hadith?

Edited September 4, 2007 by The_dip_sticks

[bszoom42 0]

I believe the hadith is a guide and explanation to the Quran.

Yes, the Quran says to pray...but where is the method of prayer explained,? In Hadith.

The Quran says to fast...but where are the guidelines to fasting? In Hadith.

Perhaps the Quran did not specify an exact method of prayer because prayer is a personal thing that can be expressed in different ways for different people?

The same can be said for fasting. Since everybody is different (some are healthy, some are sick, some have disease, some are old) maybe fasting is another one of those personal things to be expressed differently as well?

[coolred38 0]

quite possible(previous poster)

[wael253 0]

when i first came to this topic i have noticed somekind of denial mixed with some sort of ignorance .. even the starter of this topic he start it with denying the hadeth .

so here i'm trying to post some fact as i hope it helps some of us in some way ...

1- Qura'an did not deny the Bible or the Torah .. not only that .. but .. as a moslim you are required to admit them , rspect them , honor them , and more than that is to believe in them .

2- the three holy books were ( guidelines / orders / rules / stories / etc ) that been made fortunately by the same GOD .

3- the three messengers were sent by the same GOD .. sent to different people , at different times , carrying different books of different religions .. but as you can see they were sent for one same porpuse which was GOD's worship .

someother facts about the hadeth .

let me first give a quick idea about what is the Hadeth ?

Hadeth = convrsation or talking

Hadeth is almost the messenger Mohamed conversations that he had with his friends or family members or even stranger and people he just first meet .

some of these conversations were like advises or openions or explanations for some simple matters .. even sometimes it was jokes when he used to be kidding with his fellows .

after we see now what's the Hadeth means there is one important fact that has to be cleared

@ the messenger Mohamed never asked or even implicated that these conversations should be collected in books .

@ Sahabah ( the messenger Mohamed's close friends ) started collecting these conversations in books so many yars after the mssenger Mohamed had pass away .. they thought it would be helpful for muslims NOT because the Qura'an missed some matters BUT just to be a secondary source of knowledge after the Qura'an .

at this point we shouldn't forget some other important matters ...

1- Qura'an is the words of ALLAH which he guaranteed in the Qura'an's words itselfs that won't be changed or replaced .

while the hadeth is a humman's words which yet some people still argue about what's the strong ones and what's the weak ones .

even if that human was the messenger Mohamed , they even argue about did he really say that one .. oh didn't he !

did he say it this way or that way .. using these words or these words .. etc

2- when it comes to some matters like ( how to pray or how to fast ) .. the messenger Mohamed was the great teacher for the Sahabah , they were looking at him in every singl thing he did , asking him many questions about so many different matters , and h showed and told them every thing they needed to know , he asked them to transfer this knowledge the same way they got it , so the Sahabah transfered this knowledge for the others , and that's how we get it at our days now , BUT YET he has never asked or even implicated that they may document his Hadeth .

and now after this quick shot trying to explain the matter of the Hadeth .. i want to say that we can't deny the Hadeth even if it's not 100% reliable source .. BUT in the same time we should know that the Hadeth could never be equal to Qura'an .. as the Qura'an is the primary source of knowledge for Muslims and the Hadeth is the secondary source .

i hope that was helpful .

[The_dip_sticks 0]

when i first came to this topic i have noticed somekind of denial mixed with some sort of ignorance .. even the starter of this topic he start it with denying the hadeth .

so here i'm trying to post some fact as i hope it helps some of us in some way ...

1- Qura'an did not deny the Bible or the Torah .. not only that .. but .. as a moslim you are required to admit them , rspect them , honor them , and more than that is to believe in them .

2- the three holy books were ( guidelines / orders / rules / stories / etc ) that been made fortunately by the same GOD .

3- the three messengers were sent by the same GOD .. sent to different people , at different times , carrying different books of different religions .. but as you can see they were sent for one same porpuse which was GOD's worship .

someother facts about the hadeth .

let me first give a quick idea about what is the Hadeth ?

Hadeth = convrsation or talking

Hadeth is almost the messenger Mohamed conversations that he had with his friends or family members or even stranger and people he just first meet .

some of these conversations were like advises or openions or explanations for some simple matters .. even sometimes it was jokes when he used to be kidding with his fellows .

after we see now what's the Hadeth means there is one important fact that has to be cleared

@ the messenger Mohamed never asked or even implicated that these conversations should be collected in books .

@ Sahabah ( the messenger Mohamed's close friends ) started collecting these conversations in books so many yars after the mssenger Mohamed had pass away .. they thought it would be helpful for muslims NOT because the Qura'an missed some matters BUT just to be a secondary source of knowledge after the Qura'an .

at this point we shouldn't forget some other important matters ...

1- Qura'an is the words of ALLAH which he guaranteed in the Qura'an's words itselfs that won't be changed or replaced .

while the hadeth is a humman's words which yet some people still argue about what's the strong ones and what's the weak ones .

even if that human was the messenger Mohamed , they even argue about did he really say that one .. oh didn't he !

did he say it this way or that way .. using these words or these words .. etc

2- when it comes to some matters like ( how to pray or how to fast ) .. the messenger Mohamed was the great teacher for the Sahabah , they were looking at him in every singl thing he did , asking him many questions about so many different matters , and h showed and told them every thing they needed to know , he asked them to transfer this knowledge the same way they got it , so the Sahabah transfered this knowledge for the others , and that's how we get it at our days now , BUT YET he has never asked or even implicated that they may document his Hadeth .

and now after this quick shot trying to explain the matter of the Hadeth .. i want to say that we can't deny the Hadeth even if it's not 100% reliable source .. BUT in the same time we should know that the Hadeth could never be equal to Qura'an .. as the Qura'an is the primary source of knowledge for Muslims and the Hadeth is the secondary source .

i hope that was helpful .

Hi,

Thanks for the post.

I must say your argument just does'nt wash with me.

First of all by writting down the sayings and or actions of the prophet is going against what Muhammed had apperantly said when he said according to the hadith that anything he says of himself should not be written down.

Secondly you wrote I quote "while the hadeth is a humman's words which yet some people still argue about what's the strong ones and what's the weak ones"... then you wrote "even if that human was the messenger Mohamed , they even argue about did he really say that one .. oh didn't he" ... isnt this enough reason for a stable person to figure out that the hadith is flawed. The hadith quarreling has done nothing but split the muslims. It is because of the hadith that has fueled extremism and radicalism in Islam. I just dont get it, whats the point of trying to figure out which hadiths are right using the Quran????.. i thought the hadith was to be used to explain the Quran! it kind of defeats the object dont you think!!... and according to hadiths it makes the prophet to be some kind of radical bandit who enjoys nothing better than to ROB CARRIAGES!! as the hadith teaches us ofcourse.

Lets not beat about the bush here Statements from the hadith like the muslims will know their God when he shows his shin to them, enter the toilet with your left foot, eat with your right hand, say dua before sex, dua before entering a toilet are beyond the rediculous. Stonning people to daeth, cutting off limbs, beating women to a pulp, killing apostates, beating your 10 year old child because he didnt pray, robbing carriages, legal raping, sex with minors, sex with servents WHEN YOUR MARRIED, covering of women from head to toe, no equality for women just to name a few are all in the hadith. These may be quite appealing to you but I can do without thank you very much! you could see the fruits of a 100% hadith following nation like that of Afghanistan under the rule of the taliban... not exactly a welcoming place was it?

The religion of Islam is not about picking and choosing what YOU THINK is good and not good. im sure Osama bin laden is picking different ideas than you from the hadith, well I hope he is. Can you now grasp the danger of the hadith??... it is nothing more than Satan's front and the so called muslims fell for it hook line and sinker.

Also I did say in my original post we may use it CAREFULLY for some historical value (probably arab cultural history in MEDIEVIL times), im not sure where exactly but my point is keep it well away from Islam!

You claim we need hadith for how to pray, I beg to differ, THE QURAN IS ALL WE NEED its all in there. Its not called a mercy for mankind for nothing.

Peace

Adiel (Mireya's Hubby)

[Alhamdulillah 0]

If God wanted you to follow man made interpretations of the Quran why did he not have the many hadiths written out as well? Why follow something that God did not intend for you to follow? Do you trust man over God? A better question to ask your self is, are you willing follow Gods final word and will or that of the person who wrote the hadith?

If God didn't intend for a man to interpret the Quran for us then why didn't He just implant it in our brains at birth? Why send a messenger at all? Why can't Jibreel alayhi salaam, visit every person in the world for all time and teach them the Quran the same way he did with Muhammad sal allahu alayhi wa salaam?

I'm curious... since you don't trust the sahaba who relayed the hadith to us... how can you trust that those same men and women relayed the Quran to you accurately?

If the Quran is so easy for everyone to understand without any explaination from our nabi then why did the sahaba keep asking him to explain it when he was alive? Where they just thick?

It's sad to see so many muslims who don't trust the man who Allah entrusted the Quran with.

Can one of the Sunnah/hadith rejectors please give us step by step instructions on how to pray properly from the Quran alone? The prophet sal allahu alayhi wa salaam, said "pray as you see me pray"... it's odd that he didn't say to pray like you read in the Quran.