The hadith is not islam!

[The dip sticks 0]

Hi I just want to add my thoughts here on the hadith.

The Quran is the final word of God. It is infact the bible before it was corrupted by the jews as prophesised in the bible ITSELF! but people dont seem to realise that, as Islam seems to alienated from christianity and Judaism.

Why is it so alienated. The reason is because most 95% or more muslims follow the books called the hadith (supposidly the sayings and actions of the prophet muhammed some 2 hundred years after his passing). Where infact it is not that, the way the hadith were put togather was asking people about stories heard from there fathers and their fathers etc and their fathers etc supposidly what the prophet Muhammed had said.

The Quran has wonderful scientific facts such as the earth being round, life originating in water, the balance of the universe and so forth. The hadith has science such as drink camels urine for health and stuff.

My point here is the hadith is corrupted, it has nothing to do with Islam and should not be followed but maybe used in CAREFUL ways for some historical use.

It is NOT from GOD and was never intended by God for us to follow.

All the abuse and bad behaviour i.e barbaric punishments and bad treatment of women i.e covering them up from head to toe in a ninja suit and beating them by muslims originates from this book called the hadith. In my opinion it is far from God.

A muslim should follow the quran alone as it is perfect, there are no contradictions as in the hadith, it gives absolute 100% equal rights to women in every way and there is no barbaric punishment in there.

Peace

Adiel (Mireya's hubby)

Thank you very much for your presceptive. Much appreciated. But the reality is... this is an immmigration board. And as it seems posting opinion, esp in areas like religion where so many disagree will only get you pissed on (sorry) I would not waste my time with it.

I hope they bring it on.

Are you trying to prove that you are a total fcuking a$$hole?? please dont we know you are.....you use the fact you are English as an excuse for being rude and are proud of the fact you dont give a damn... do the rest of us from the UK a big favor.. crawl back under whatever stone you came out from this morning....

Kez

do me a favour ###### off you ####

Does the Quran support the language you used to be very rude to Kez and the way you addressed her? Me thinks not. I hate when someone tries to preach, from any religion, and the next minute acts like a total jerk, and uses language that I am pretty sure they are not supposed to according to their religion. Hypocritical.

I responded likewise to your wonderful Kez. If you understood the topic you would see im NOT preaching, just giving an opinion.

[chri'stina 190]

...

It doesn't mean that they were immune to having their own agendas, but, I don't know, if you can believe that God dictated a book, certainly you can understand why people might believe that God inspired people to make the correct decisions about which stories to include as canon.

...

Good point.

[peezey 0]

My question about the holidays and random things I cannot get my husband to answer (and that I don't necessarily trust online sources for)... I just went looking and think I answered Ramadan myself-- so it's established as the month when the Qu'ran was revealed? So then this would leave Muslims believing there was only one holiday before the Qu'ran? And as far as pilgrimage to the kaabah, is it accepted as being instituted with Mohammed? Because I have seen a lot of claims that it was built by Adam, which would sort of indicate it should have been there for quite some time...

Ok, I'm still confused. The kaabah was used in the earlier religions of the arabs for prayer. It was there for quite some time, although I wouldn't be able to say offhand how long. But I don't know if this is your question.

Hajj isn't a holiday.

What holidays popped up? What holiday do you mean is the one before the quran?

I would also (highly) recommend you read Karen Armstrong (bio of Mohammed) for a good historical telling of all this. Much better than internet or husbands (lol!).

[chri'stina 190]

Hi I just want to add my thoughts here on the hadith.

The Quran is the final word of God. It is infact the bible before it was corrupted by the jews as prophesised in the bible ITSELF! but people dont seem to realise that, as Islam seems to alienated from christianity and Judaism. ....

Peace

Adiel (Mireya's hubby)

Not everyone here agrees with that.

She's not "my Kez", I just think it is inappropriate to go from discussing God to cursing someone the next moment.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Hi I just want to add my thoughts here on the hadith.

The Quran is the final word of God. It is infact the bible before it was corrupted by the jews as prophesised in the bible ITSELF! but people dont seem to realise that, as Islam seems to alienated from christianity and Judaism.

Why is it so alienated. The reason is because most 95% or more muslims follow the books called the hadith (supposidly the sayings and actions of the prophet muhammed some 2 hundred years after his passing). Where infact it is not that, the way the hadith were put togather was asking people about stories heard from there fathers and their fathers etc and their fathers etc supposidly what the prophet Muhammed had said.

The Quran has wonderful scientific facts such as the earth being round, life originating in water, the balance of the universe and so forth. The hadith has science such as drink camels urine for health and stuff.

My point here is the hadith is corrupted, it has nothing to do with Islam and should not be followed but maybe used in CAREFUL ways for some historical use.

It is NOT from GOD and was never intended by God for us to follow.

All the abuse and bad behaviour i.e barbaric punishments and bad treatment of women i.e covering them up from head to toe in a ninja suit and beating them by muslims originates from this book called the hadith. In my opinion it is far from God.

A muslim should follow the quran alone as it is perfect, there are no contradictions as in the hadith, it gives absolute 100% equal rights to women in every way and there is no barbaric punishment in there.

Peace

Adiel (Mireya's hubby)

Thank you very much for your presceptive. Much appreciated. But the reality is... this is an immmigration board. And as it seems posting opinion, esp in areas like religion where so many disagree will only get you pissed on (sorry) I would not waste my time with it.

I hope they bring it on.

Are you trying to prove that you are a total fcuking a$$hole?? please dont we know you are.....you use the fact you are English as an excuse for being rude and are proud of the fact you dont give a damn... do the rest of us from the UK a big favor.. crawl back under whatever stone you came out from this morning....

Kez

do me a favour ###### off you ####

Does the Quran support the language you used to be very rude to Kez and the way you addressed her? Me thinks not. I hate when someone tries to preach, from any religion, and the next minute acts like a total jerk, and uses language that I am pretty sure they are not supposed to according to their religion. Hypocritical.

I responded likewise to your wonderful Kez. If you understood the topic you would see im NOT preaching, just giving an opinion.

True. She was the one who started flinging the F-word and more in here.

[peezey 0]

It's no more corruption than Islamic scholars arguing over how to interpret the requirement to be modest is corruption. The difference is that Christianity doesn't think that God dictated the book, just inspired it. And there were a lot of independent authors. So, there were a bunch of candidate books and a bunch of candidate theories about, e.g., the divinity of Christ, and basically, sides argued back and forth and eventually the council decided on a consensus. And the story goes that God was guiding them while they prayed as to whether this story about Christ was true or this one was false.

It doesn't mean that they were immune to having their own agendas, but, I don't know, if you can believe that God dictated a book, certainly you can understand why people might believe that God inspired people to make the correct decisions about which stories to include as canon.

It's corrupt only if your standard is 'directly writing what God said', but I think of it more like the Constitutional Convention, or a group of philosophers arguing. What I think of as corruption would include bad translations.

I think there is a huge difference between humans putting together a holy book and Islamic scholars debating hijab. The debate on hijab does not alter the content of the quran.

And, well, Muslims will say their standard for the word of God is "directly writing what God said" although this doesn't mean men can't be inspired or guided by God.

[doodlebug 3]

I don't normally want to read a book twice, but I did with this one and it was wonderful:

I'm currently been TRUDGING through this one, which is good as well but a bit above my head:

[The dip sticks 0]

Hi I just want to add my thoughts here on the hadith.

The Quran is the final word of God. It is infact the bible before it was corrupted by the jews as prophesised in the bible ITSELF! but people dont seem to realise that, as Islam seems to alienated from christianity and Judaism. ....

Peace

Adiel (Mireya's hubby)

Not everyone here agrees with that.

She's not "my Kez", I just think it is inappropriate to go from discussing God to cursing someone the next moment.

I don't know her and I said nothing to her. She or he came on and abused me out of the blue for no good reason on a topic that has absolutely nothing to do with her and is not offensive to her in any way, she got exactly what she deserved for being rude I did nothing more than respond. I will not tolerate bad language being used against me for no reason, maybe its your thing not mine. As I stated im NOT preaching I just gave an opinion, I don't claim to be religious per say and nor a scholar or a divine messenger. I am me and just like if someone abused me in the street for no reason he would get it back, if someone is nice I will be nice back.

[Nasturtium 500]

Ok, I'm still confused. The kaabah was used in the earlier religions of the arabs for prayer. It was there for quite some time, although I wouldn't be able to say offhand how long. But I don't know if this is your question.

Hajj isn't a holiday.

What holidays popped up? What holiday do you mean is the one before the quran?

I would also (highly) recommend you read Karen Armstrong (bio of Mohammed) for a good historical telling of all this. Much better than internet or husbands (lol!).

Sorry, I had said holidays "and other random things" which included Hajj as a random thing. My holiday question was Ramadan, but I found a decent answer for that... which then led me to wondering since there are only 2 official holidays in Islam-- that would leave Muslims with only one prior to the revealing of the Qu'ran. By celebration before the revealing of the Qu'ran, I meant based on the Islamic timeline of insituting holidays, and I was refering to Eid al Adha.

The Kaaba to my knowledge DID pre-exist prior to Islam and was used in religions before Islam (although i wasn't sure about how long Muslims thought it existed officially, and I looked and saw that it's in the Qu'ran as being built by Abraham, right? You know I read the Qu'ran once before, but I obviously need to read it again.). So is it based on the Qu'ran and Mohammed that Muslims claim it as an original Islamic structure then? But in scholarly work, it has a very fuzzy history, doesn't it? As far as there is basically no scholarly investigation allowed around it so it is a history based solely on claim in the Qu'ran?

Thanks for the book reccomendation, I'll take a look at it. I usually hit up the university library journals for most of my questions, just as an aside.

Edited August 14, 2007 by julianna

[chri'stina 190]

Hi I just want to add my thoughts here on the hadith.

The Quran is the final word of God. It is infact the bible before it was corrupted by the jews as prophesised in the bible ITSELF! but people dont seem to realise that, as Islam seems to alienated from christianity and Judaism. ....

Peace

Adiel (Mireya's hubby)

Not everyone here agrees with that.

She's not "my Kez", I just think it is inappropriate to go from discussing God to cursing someone the next moment.

I don't know her and I said nothing to her. She or he came on and abused me out of the blue for no good reason on a topic that has absolutely nothing to do with her and is not offensive to her in any way, she got exactly what she deserved for being rude I did nothing more than respond. I will not tolerate bad language being used against me for no reason, maybe its your thing not mine. As I stated im NOT preaching I just gave an opinion, I don't claim to be religious per say and nor a scholar or a divine messenger. I am me and just like if someone abused me in the street for no reason he would get it back, if someone is nice I will be nice back.

I agree she shouldn't have cursed at you(the reason why she did was that she was mad at your fake abuse thread). I personally wouldn't have responded the way you did but whatever.

I am sorry I assumed you were religious, since you seemed to have enough passion about your beliefs to start this thread about all hadiths being corrupt and only following the Quran. That's why I felt like it was inappropriate for you to respond the way you did after saying how important it was to follow the Quran. Anyway, I'll drop it now.

Edited August 14, 2007 by stina&suj

[The dip sticks 0]

Hi I just want to add my thoughts here on the hadith.

The Quran is the final word of God. It is infact the bible before it was corrupted by the jews as prophesised in the bible ITSELF! but people dont seem to realise that, as Islam seems to alienated from christianity and Judaism. ....

Peace

Adiel (Mireya's hubby)

Not everyone here agrees with that.

She's not "my Kez", I just think it is inappropriate to go from discussing God to cursing someone the next moment.

I don't know her and I said nothing to her. She or he came on and abused me out of the blue for no good reason on a topic that has absolutely nothing to do with her and is not offensive to her in any way, she got exactly what she deserved for being rude I did nothing more than respond. I will not tolerate bad language being used against me for no reason, maybe its your thing not mine. As I stated im NOT preaching I just gave an opinion, I don't claim to be religious per say and nor a scholar or a divine messenger. I am me and just like if someone abused me in the street for no reason he would get it back, if someone is nice I will be nice back.

I agree she shouldn't have cursed at you(the reason why she did was that she was mad at your fake abuse thread). I personally wouldn't have responded the way you did but whatever.

I am sorry I assumed you were religious, since you seemed to have enough passion about your beliefs to start this thread about all hadiths being corrupt and only following the Quran. That's why I felt like it was inappropriate for you to respond the way you did after saying how important it was to follow the Quran. Anyway, I'll drop it now.

Sure i understand that we are all unique in our own ways, we respond to situations differently. Thats what makes the world go round I suppose.

[Captain Ewok 1,871]

Fair warning. I have read parts of this topic and if the insults continue I will either lock and / or suspend accounts of members that continue to personally attack each other. Lets all remember that this site is about support, not criticism.

[The dip sticks 0]

Fair warning. I have read parts of this topic and if the insults continue I will either lock and / or suspend accounts of members that continue to personally attack each other. Lets all remember that this site is about support, not criticism.

Thanks captain... you are a tad late with the warning though, we already had the warning yesterday by Lal and was no more cursing after that since.

[mybackpages 0]

It doesn't mean that they were immune to having their own agendas, but, I don't know, if you can believe that God dictated a book, certainly you can understand why people might believe that God inspired people to make the correct decisions about which stories to include as canon.

Actually, this makes me think of how one decides if hadith are authentic or not, although hadith are not claimed to be inspired by God per se .

There is a whole body of scholarship and methodolgy used to measure the correctness of hadiths- very much the way historians verify the authenticy of events. And because of this human element there is disagreement regarding a hadith's validity or usefullness.

The language of the Quran has not changed since the Prophet's time, but the interpretation of Islamic law (fiqh) has varied. Again due to the human element- There is disagreement over word meaning (literal and figurative), grammatical meanings. So while the Quran is an uncorrupted source (meaning it has not been translated and passed through several hands like the bible), there is a possiblity to corrupt the practices and meanings of Islam.

In other words, there are many areas within the many schools of jurisprudence among Muslims that may or may not be following Islam and the message of the Quran. BUT the message of the Quran remains in tact and uncorrupted unlike the Bible where it is much more difficult to piece together the original message with years of bad translations and selective bindings.

[mybackpages 0]

I just went looking and think I answered Ramadan myself-- so it's established as the month when the Qu'ran was revealed? So then this would leave Muslims believing there was only one holiday before the Qu'ran? And as far as pilgrimage to the kaabah, is it accepted as being instituted with Mohammed? Because I have seen a lot of claims that it was built by Adam, which would sort of indicate it should have been there for quite some time...

Here is how I understand it. Adam was given the relgious message from God when he was expelled form the garden. A muslim believes this message was the same message Mohommed brought- that the Prophet was not bringing something new but a reminder of what all the prophets before had brought.

Ibrahim built the Kabah in Mecca on a site that Adam had built a place of worship. There were religious ceremonies associated with pilgrimages to the Kabah during Mohammed's time, but were seen as pagan practices. The pagen practices were a corruption of the orginal message from Adam to Ibranhim to Jesus and Mohammed corrected their practices by "bringing back" Islam.

The Quran was reveled to Mohammad during the month of Ramadan while the prophet was spending some time in meditation in isolation in a cave outside of Mecca. This was common practice for some in Mecca at the time. The Meccans were not pagans because they had never been given the word of God, because they has gotten "lost" from the message of the prophets before. Same with Jesus, IMO, he came to remind the community of the original teachings of God that other prophets before him had brought.