The hadith is not islam!

[Alhamdulillah 0]

cutting off limbs,

Actually, this one's in the Quran

وَالسَّارِقُ وَالسَّارِقَةُ فَاقْطَعُواْ أَيْدِيَهُمَا جَزَاءً بِمَا كَسَبَا نَكَالاً مِّنَ اللّهِ وَاللّهُ عَزِيزٌ حَكِيمٌ

Cut off the "yad" of the thief, male or female, as a recompense for that which they committed, a punishment by way of example from Allah. And Allah is AllPowerful, AllWise.

Curious... how do hadith rejectors carry out this command without the hadith to explain and limit it? Do you just go around chopping off everyone's arms who removes a grain of sand from your yard?

Where does the hadith encourage beating women?

If it wasn't for the hadith, men would take this verse as free reign to beat their wives over any little matter:

الرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُونَ عَلَى النِّسَاءِ بِمَا فَضَّلَ اللّهُ بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ وَبِمَا أَنفَقُواْ مِنْ أَمْوَالِهِمْ فَالصَّالِحَاتُ قَانِتَاتٌ حَافِظَاتٌ لِّلْغَيْبِ بِمَا حَفِظَ اللّهُ وَاللاَّتِي تَخَافُونَ نُشُوزَهُنَّ فَعِظُوهُنَّ وَاهْجُرُوهُنَّ فِي الْمَضَاجِعِ وَاضْرِبُوهُنَّ فَإِنْ أَطَعْنَكُمْ فَلاَ تَبْغُواْ عَلَيْهِنَّ سَبِيلاً إِنَّ اللّهَ كَانَ عَلِيًّا كَبِيرًا

Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in the husbands absence what Allah orders them to guard. As to those women on whose part you see illconduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them, but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means. Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.

[mybackpages 0]

I'm curious... since you don't trust the sahaba who relayed the hadith to us... how can you trust that those same men and women relayed the Quran to you accurately?

Because they are not the same people. A hadith by Aisha telling us that the Prophet said something was not given to the muslims by aisha. It was given to us by someone who heard Aisha say or even someone who heard someone who heard Aisha say the prohpet said. The Quran was committed to memory, it was carefully preserved to prevent changes from being made. The hadiths come much later.

[The_dip_sticks 0]

If God wanted you to follow man made interpretations of the Quran why did he not have the many hadiths written out as well? Why follow something that God did not intend for you to follow? Do you trust man over God? A better question to ask your self is, are you willing follow Gods final word and will or that of the person who wrote the hadith?

If God didn't intend for a man to interpret the Quran for us then why didn't He just implant it in our brains at birth? Why send a messenger at all? Why can't Jibreel alayhi salaam, visit every person in the world for all time and teach them the Quran the same way he did with Muhammad sal allahu alayhi wa salaam?

I'm curious... since you don't trust the sahaba who relayed the hadith to us... how can you trust that those same men and women relayed the Quran to you accurately?

If the Quran is so easy for everyone to understand without any explaination from our nabi then why did the sahaba keep asking him to explain it when he was alive? Where they just thick?

It's sad to see so many muslims who don't trust the man who Allah entrusted the Quran with.

Can one of the Sunnah/hadith rejectors please give us step by step instructions on how to pray properly from the Quran alone? The prophet sal allahu alayhi wa salaam, said "pray as you see me pray"... it's odd that he didn't say to pray like you read in the Quran.

Hi,

Thanks for the response, I have answered a similar question to this like 5 times I wish people would just read the rest of the post as it would save me time. But I will repaste once more just for you as im a nice guy 

Your question of why didn’t he just install it in our brain would kind of defeat the object of our purpose on earth wouldn’t it?... we wouldn’t even need to be on earth in the first place. He didn’t install it because he doesn’t need to, as it is up to us to reflect and we are here to be tested, will we accept the truth when we see it or not.

On your question about the prophet and what was his use see the following I had posted before for someone else.

This first one pretty much sums it all up but we will continue with others to give you further meat to chew on:

"It (the Quran) is a revelation from the Lord of the universe. Had he (Muhammad) uttered any other teachings, We would have grabbed him by the right, and We would have severed his Wateen (Major artery of the heart), none of you could have helped him." 69:43-47

It’s quite clearly stating that had he uttered any other teachings he would have been punished. So in conclusion he had absolutely no authority to say anything other than what’s in the Quran. So yes let’s obey the messenger and STUDY the Quran.

But let’s further look at the prophet muhammed’s role, in these quotes we can see what his use was by God:

"You have NO duty EXCEPT DELIVERING the message." 42:48

"The messenger has NO function EXCEPT delivery of the message." 5:99

"We have not sent any messenger except to be obeyed by God's will." 4:64

No duty except deliver the message, So what EXACTLY is this message that is so emphasized by God for the prophet. Let’s examine:

"We have sent down to you a scripture containing YOUR MESSAGE. Do you not understand?" 21:10

As we can clearly see the MESSAGE is the Quran. It also states as “YOUR MESSAGE” meaning it is a communication between one soul and God, not Imams and so called religious leaders,.

Further we can see in the next quote what he is allowed to UTTER.

"This is the utterance of an honorable messenger. Not the utterance of a poet; rarely do you believe. Nor the utterance of a soothsayer; rarely do you take heed. A revelation from the Lord of the universe. HAD HE UTTERED ANYOTHER TEACHINGS We would have stopped the revelations to him." [69:40-46]

As you can see in the above quote, the Quran clearly states that he was FORBIDDEN to utter any other teachings.

Now you may argue rather than utter other than the Quran you follow him as to EXPLAIN the Quran to us. Well let’s see what the Quran says to that:

"Do not move your tongue to hasten it. It is we who will collect it into Quran. Once we recite it, you shall follow such a Quran. Then it is WE who will explain it." 75:16-19

As you can see in the above quote the prophet Muhammed DOES NOT EVEN HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO EXPLAIN THE QURAN. It makes you wonder why people EVEN go to so called religious leaders and so called scholars, the Quran is telling us that the message is between one soul and God and is no ones business other than that, if even the prophet Muhammed is not allowed to explain it to us who are the scholars trying to fool???... So who does explain the Quran?... the next quote reveals:

"The Most Gracious. Teacher of the Quran." 55:1-2

Yes it is up to us to just study the Quran and it is God who teaches us as again emphasized in the next quotes:

[73:1] O you cloaked one.

[73:2] Meditate during the night, except rarely.

[73:3] Half of it, or a little less.

[73:4] Or a little more. And read the Quran from cover to cover.

[73:5] We will give you a heavy message.

God has told us he will teach us and give us the message as above.

I hope that helped

Second you asked “how can we trust the men and women who gave us the Quran in the first place” sir it wasn’t men or women it was God as the Quran states, I think that should be enough of an answer.

Also the prayers are all in the Quran!.. I have posted a similar post before also, just look under this post near the beginning pages.

Peace

Adiel (Mireya’s hubby)

cutting off limbs,

Actually, this one's in the Quran

وَالسَّارِقُ وَالسَّارِقَةُ فَاقْطَعُواْ أَيْدِيَهُمَا جَزَاءً بِمَا كَسَبَا نَكَالاً مِّنَ اللّهِ وَاللّهُ عَزِيزٌ حَكِيمٌ

Cut off the "yad" of the thief, male or female, as a recompense for that which they committed, a punishment by way of example from Allah. And Allah is AllPowerful, AllWise.

Curious... how do hadith rejectors carry out this command without the hadith to explain and limit it? Do you just go around chopping off everyone's arms who removes a grain of sand from your yard?

Where does the hadith encourage beating women?

If it wasn't for the hadith, men would take this verse as free reign to beat their wives over any little matter:

الرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُونَ عَلَى النِّسَاءِ بِمَا فَضَّلَ اللّهُ بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ وَبِمَا أَنفَقُواْ مِنْ أَمْوَالِهِمْ فَالصَّالِحَاتُ قَانِتَاتٌ حَافِظَاتٌ لِّلْغَيْبِ بِمَا حَفِظَ اللّهُ وَاللاَّتِي تَخَافُونَ نُشُوزَهُنَّ فَعِظُوهُنَّ وَاهْجُرُوهُنَّ فِي الْمَضَاجِعِ وَاضْرِبُوهُنَّ فَإِنْ أَطَعْنَكُمْ فَلاَ تَبْغُواْ عَلَيْهِنَّ سَبِيلاً إِنَّ اللّهَ كَانَ عَلِيًّا كَبِيرًا

Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in the husbands absence what Allah orders them to guard. As to those women on whose part you see illconduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them, but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means. Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.

Hi,

thanks for the response.

1. First, the Arabic word <yad> (in dual plural in 5:38 above) or "hand" is used in Quran in its literal and figurative meanings. For instance, 27:12 uses it in its literal meaning while 5:64 uses it in its figurative one to refer to wealth and resources.

27:12, "Put your hand <yad> (O Moses) in your pocket; it will come out white, without a blemish. These are among nine signs <ayat> to Pharaoh and his people, for they are wicked people."

5:64, "The Jews even said, "God's <yad> hand is tied down!" It is their <yad> hands that are tied down. They are condemned for uttering such a blasphemy. Instead, His both <yad> hands are wide open, spending as He wills..."

Another example for the non-literal meaning is 38:45. It uses <yad> in plural (three or more) form. It conveys the meaning of power and possession of resources.

38:45, "Remember also our servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. They were resourceful <ulu al-aydee> (with many hands), and possessed vision/They possessed power and vision."

<yad> is also used to infer someone's actions and doings (2:195, 22:10). It is used too to mean possession of a responsibility or a contract (2:237).

Therefore, <eqta’u aydiyahuma> in the above aya 5:38 means to cut off from the thieves’ resources and power.

So the correct verse should be:

5:38, "The male thief, and the female thief, you shall cut off from their resources and power as a punishment for their crime, and to serve as a deterrent from God. God is Almighty, Wise."

Aya 5:39 that follows 5:38 makes complete sense.

5:39, "If one repents after committing this crime, and reforms, God redeems him. God is Forgiver, Merciful."

2. Last but not least, sura 12 gives us a good example of how to punish the thieves.

[12:70] When he provided them with their provisions, he placed the drinking cup in his brother's bag, then an announcer announced: "The owners of this caravan are thieves."

[12:71] They said, as they came towards them, "What did you lose?"

[12:72] They said, "We lost the king's cup. Anyone who returns it will receive an extra camel-load; I personally guarantee this."

[12:73] They said, "By GOD, you know full well that we did not come here to commit evil, nor are we thieves."

[12:74] They said, "What is the punishment for the thief, if you are liars?"

[12:75] They said, "The punishment, if it is found in his bag, is that the thief belongs to you. We thus punish the guilty."

[12:76] He then started by inspecting their containers, before getting to his brother's container, and he extracted it out of his brother's container. We thus perfected the scheme for Joseph; he could not have kept his brother if he applied the king's law. But that was the will of GOD. We exalt whomever we choose to higher ranks. Above every knowledgeable one, there is one who is even more knowledgeable.

[12:77] They said, "If he stole, so did a brother of his in the past." Joseph concealed his feelings in himself, and did not give them any clue. He said (to himself), "You are really bad. GOD is fully aware of your accusations."

[12:78] They said, "O you noble one, he has a father who is elderly; would you take one of us in his place? We see that you are a kind man."

[12:79] He said, "GOD forbid that we should take other than the one in whose possession we found our goods. Otherwise, we would be unjust."

The way I understand the above ayat is this is God's law for theft in application.

[12:7] In Joseph and his brothers there are lessons for the seekers.

Joseph and his brothers were muslims and children of Jacob and Abraham's great great-children.

[12:38] "And I followed instead the religion of my ancestors, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. We never set up any idols beside GOD. Such is the blessing from GOD upon us and upon the people, but most people are unappreciative.

It is very clear from the above ayat that they were not following the king’s law to punish the thieves but rather God’s law.

[12:76] He then started by inspecting their containers, before getting to his brother's container, and he extracted it out of his brother's container. We thus perfected the scheme for Joseph; he could not have kept his brother if he applied the king's law. But that was the will of GOD…

It’s obvious above that they were following God’s law rather than the Kings law.

First the presumed thieves were given the chance to come forward, acknowledge their wrongdoing, and then give back what they have stolen. They might even get a reward.

Second, if they do not do so, they must be proven as thieves. Then, what was stolen, if found, should be restituted to their owners. Thieves should work to repay the fees involved in the whole process. They should also work to repay what was stolen in case they do not give it or the whole of it back.

Had Joseph known that God's punishment for theft is cutting hands (which his brothers would have apply), he would not scheme that way in order to keep his brother with him.

[12:111] In their history, there is a lesson for those who possess intelligence. This is not fabricated narrative (Hadith); this (Quran) confirms all previous scriptures, provides the details of everything, and is a beacon and mercy for those who believe.

As you can see above God has told us that in this story is a lesson for us.

Now you tell me what is the use of cutting someones hands off???... what if he is the sole provider for his family???... is God so severe that the wife and children must become beggars to survive??? … God is Al rahman (merciful) so cutting limbs off makes no sense!

So in conclusion there is no “cutting limbs” … that was just interpreted wrong by the people who followed the CORRUPTED hadith in the first place.

Also you said about beating in the Quran, just like the “cutting hands” … BEAT is not in there either. I will explain also but not today this took a lot of my time.

Peace

Adiel (Mireyas husband)

Edited September 4, 2007 by The_dip_sticks

[HLM 1]

confused808

What exactly do you want proof of concerning my previous post? All you have to do is look at any collection of hadeeth books....especially ones concerning women that are derogatory in nature, and see the rating it has.

Some Muslims feel that every single word that came out of the prophets mouth was divine revelation...but obviously that is not fact because not only does he seek guidance from his wives, the sahaba etc in religious matters(if he already had all the answers why seek guidance)....but God also rebukes him in the Quran and threatens him if he was to add his own words to the revelation(meaning that it was possible for him to do so)...this tells us that Only the Quran is from God and cant be changed....even by the prophet....and that not every word out side the Quran was revelation or he wouldnt be rebuked or need to seek guidance from others....hadeeth are man made and thus subject to corruption...period. Why is that so hard for some Muslims to understand? Hadeeth are useful if they backup the Quran...if they do not...if they contradict it...if they take away a right that the Quran gives us then we must disregard it because our prophet had no right to take away or add anything to our deen....his only job was to convey the message and lead by example.

The interesting thing about Islam is that there is no "pope" figure...no clergy sending down religious edict from on high that every Muslim MUST follow....there is nothing and nobody standing between each believer and God...we must hold ourselves accountable for what we ultimately believe and practice....would you rather put your trust and eternal soul in the hands of God and the Quran which will never lead you astray....or in manmade hadeeth that obviously fall far short of that? Wheres the choice really? Just a thought.

sister i never said i deny quran and go with only the hadith!!!! quran is my only guide no doubt about that... YET I WILL USE HADITHS to help me with some verses in the quran. no matter what DS says his arguments are not fully backed up, the verses he is using and everything. he is being so narrow minded. its up to everyone at the end to believe in whatever he/ she wants to believe. he still couldnt even explain how did he learn to practice his deen from the quran!!!! JIBRIL WAS SENT BY ALLAH TO TEACH PROPHET MUHAMMED PEACE BE UPON HIS SOUL HOW TO PRAY!! and thats how lots of ibadat has been explained and shown. im sorry im not buying any of ur proof or comments. but it was good conversation with u all thank u so much for ur time:) may Allah guide us all and gather us in firdaous AMEEN:)

salamu alaikom.

p.s. i will bring so many hadiths on how the prophet honours women and respects them subhan Allah i never saw anyone has compassionate as the prophet PEACE BE UPON HIS SOUL!!!

[The_dip_sticks 0]

confused808

What exactly do you want proof of concerning my previous post? All you have to do is look at any collection of hadeeth books....especially ones concerning women that are derogatory in nature, and see the rating it has.

Some Muslims feel that every single word that came out of the prophets mouth was divine revelation...but obviously that is not fact because not only does he seek guidance from his wives, the sahaba etc in religious matters(if he already had all the answers why seek guidance)....but God also rebukes him in the Quran and threatens him if he was to add his own words to the revelation(meaning that it was possible for him to do so)...this tells us that Only the Quran is from God and cant be changed....even by the prophet....and that not every word out side the Quran was revelation or he wouldnt be rebuked or need to seek guidance from others....hadeeth are man made and thus subject to corruption...period. Why is that so hard for some Muslims to understand? Hadeeth are useful if they backup the Quran...if they do not...if they contradict it...if they take away a right that the Quran gives us then we must disregard it because our prophet had no right to take away or add anything to our deen....his only job was to convey the message and lead by example.

The interesting thing about Islam is that there is no "pope" figure...no clergy sending down religious edict from on high that every Muslim MUST follow....there is nothing and nobody standing between each believer and God...we must hold ourselves accountable for what we ultimately believe and practice....would you rather put your trust and eternal soul in the hands of God and the Quran which will never lead you astray....or in manmade hadeeth that obviously fall far short of that? Wheres the choice really? Just a thought.

sister i never said i deny quran and go with only the hadith!!!! quran is my only guide no doubt about that... YET I WILL USE HADITHS to help me with some verses in the quran. no matter what DS says his arguments are not fully backed up, the verses he is using and everything. he is being so narrow minded. its up to everyone at the end to believe in whatever he/ she wants to believe. he still couldnt even explain how did he learn to practice his deen from the quran!!!! JIBRIL WAS SENT BY ALLAH TO TEACH PROPHET MUHAMMED PEACE BE UPON HIS SOUL HOW TO PRAY!! and thats how lots of ibadat has been explained and shown. im sorry im not buying any of ur proof or comments. but it was good conversation with u all thank u so much for ur time:) may Allah guide us all and gather us in firdaous AMEEN:)

salamu alaikom.

p.s. i will bring so many hadiths on how the prophet honours women and respects them subhan Allah i never saw anyone has compassionate as the prophet PEACE BE UPON HIS SOUL!!!

Hi,

I used the Quran to back my responses each and everytime, not quite sure how that is narrow minded. But no problem. I wish you the best.

Peace

Adiel (M's hubby)

[The_dip_sticks 0]

I believe the hadith is a guide and explanation to the Quran.

Yes, the Quran says to pray...but where is the method of prayer explained,? In Hadith.

The Quran says to fast...but where are the guidelines to fasting? In Hadith.

Perhaps the Quran did not specify an exact method of prayer because prayer is a personal thing that can be expressed in different ways for different people?

The same can be said for fasting. Since everybody is different (some are healthy, some are sick, some have disease, some are old) maybe fasting is another one of those personal things to be expressed differently as well?

Hi,

Actualy the prayer is in there and so is the fasting

Peace

Adiel (M's Hubby)

[coolred38 0]

How is it that our religion is considered the religion of Peace and the religion of the Middle Path(not extreme and not too lax) and yet so many Muslims believe its also the religion that promotes stoning, chopping of hands, and beating of wives(and by proxy moms, sisters and daughters). How can you believe these behavoirs are sanctioned by an All Merciful God and a prophet that clearly loved the woman he was surrounded by and promoted forgiveness at every opportunity?

We can believe that the prophet was the best example Muslims should follow and when there are hadith that illustrate this particular sort of good behavoir or "Islamic like" behavoir then it matters little whether the hadith is sound or not....its worth following based on good sound Muslimlike behavoir....but if there are unIslamic ike hadith that promote unMuslimlike behavoir then I dont care if it supposedly came straight from the prophets mouth...that aint Islam and that aint what a Muslim is.....we have no obligation to follow those sorts of hadith no matter its rating.

Funny someone mentioned the "infamous beat" ayat.....ironic that the prophet never hit any of his women...when he got into such a state of misery with them that he couldnt take their behavoir anymore HE LEFT THEM FOR ONE WHOLE MONTH....he did not resort to beating them.....and Muslims go on and on about how he is the best example to follow and yet clearly do not feel obligated to follow his good behavoir concerning his wives in this particular instance. Why would God promote love and companionship....calling your spouse your garment and "soft place to land" in times of harship etc....and then turn around and give permission to beat them if they get out of hand.....wheres the Mercy and Forgiveness in that and how does that foster good will and a return to peace in the house? Just a thought.

Also, please list the hadeeth that give a exact run down of how to pray from start to finish please....Im waiting. Our prophet said "pray as you SEE me pray"....which indicates that we should follow visually and learn to pray watching other Muslims pray....which is exactly how Muslims learn to pray....nobody learns to pray by reading hadeeth....nobody.

[Alhamdulillah 0]

I'm curious... since you don't trust the sahaba who relayed the hadith to us... how can you trust that those same men and women relayed the Quran to you accurately?

Because they are not the same people. A hadith by Aisha telling us that the Prophet said something was not given to the muslims by aisha. It was given to us by someone who heard Aisha say or even someone who heard someone who heard Aisha say the prohpet said. The Quran was committed to memory, it was carefully preserved to prevent changes from being made. The hadiths come much later.

Of course they are the same people. The Quran wasn't compiled the way we have it now at that time by the prophet sal allahu alayhi wa salaam. It was those men and women, who are not trusted to relay hadith, that memorized the Quran and eventually wrote it down for us some number of years later.

Those who have memorized it from the beginning learned it from someone who learned it from someone who learned it from someone who learned it from someone who learned it from a sahaba who learned it from the prophet sal allahu alayhi wa salaam.

If they could memorize the entire Quran and pass it down to us, surely they can remember something the prophet sal allahu alayhi wa salaam or sayeda 'Aisha radiallahu anha said.

[mybackpages 0]

I'm curious... since you don't trust the sahaba who relayed the hadith to us... how can you trust that those same men and women relayed the Quran to you accurately?

Because they are not the same people. A hadith by Aisha telling us that the Prophet said something was not given to the muslims by aisha. It was given to us by someone who heard Aisha say or even someone who heard someone who heard Aisha say the prohpet said. The Quran was committed to memory, it was carefully preserved to prevent changes from being made. The hadiths come much later.

Of course they are the same people. The Quran wasn't compiled the way we have it now at that time by the prophet sal allahu alayhi wa salaam. It was those men and women, who are not trusted to relay hadith, that memorized the Quran and eventually wrote it down for us some number of years later.

Those who have memorized it from the beginning learned it from someone who learned it from someone who learned it from someone who learned it from someone who learned it from a sahaba who learned it from the prophet sal allahu alayhi wa salaam.

If they could memorize the entire Quran and pass it down to us, surely they can remember something the prophet sal allahu alayhi wa salaam or sayeda 'Aisha radiallahu anha said.

Your logic is slightly off there.

[Alhamdulillah 0]

Hi,

Thanks for the response, I have answered a similar question to this like 5 times I wish people would just read the rest of the post as it would save me time. But I will repaste once more just for you as im a nice guy 

Hi, I've also shown you in the same Quran where Allah subhanahu wa ta'la says it's Muhammad's sal allahu alayhi wa salaam job to relay and explain the Quran. I think you need to go back and read the other verses around the ones you've quoted and understand what is being said.

thanks for the response.

1. First, the Arabic word <yad> (in dual plural in 5:38 above) or "hand" is used in Quran in its literal and figurative meanings. For instance, 27:12 uses it in its literal meaning while 5:64 uses it in its figurative one to refer to wealth and resources.

The Arabic word "yad" refers to the whole arm, including the hand. It's from the ahadith that we learn that this verse is referring to the hand from the wrist.

So the correct verse should be:

5:38, "The male thief, and the female thief, you shall cut off from their resources and power as a punishment for their crime, and to serve as a deterrent from God. God is Almighty, Wise."

Why would they be stealing if they had resources and power to cut off? The verse means what it says... BTW, who explained this verse to you? How did you come up with this explaination? I'm assuming it's an explaination that you've come up with on your own since you don't trust scholars or religious leaders to explain the Quran to you, right?

Now you tell me what is the use of cutting someones hands off???... what if he is the sole provider for his family???... is God so severe that the wife and children must become beggars to survive??? … God is Al rahman (merciful) so cutting limbs off makes no sense!

What is the use of throwing people into hellfire?

There are conditions to cutting off the thief's hand, which you would know if you read the ahadith about it.

A man can work with one hand BTW.

Also you said about beating in the Quran, just like the “cutting hands” … BEAT is not in there either. I will explain also but not today this took a lot of my time.

وَاضْرِبُوهُنَّ = and beat them

Please give us your translation?

Actualy the prayer is in there and so is the fasting

Hi, can you please describe the prayer exactly as we should pray it from the Quran?

[Alhamdulillah 0]

Funny someone mentioned the "infamous beat" ayat.....ironic that the prophet never hit any of his women...when he got into such a state of misery with them that he couldnt take their behavoir anymore HE LEFT THEM FOR ONE WHOLE MONTH....he did not resort to beating them.....and Muslims go on and on about how he is the best example to follow and yet clearly do not feel obligated to follow his good behavoir concerning his wives in this particular instance. Why would God promote love and companionship....calling your spouse your garment and "soft place to land" in times of harship etc....and then turn around and give permission to beat them if they get out of hand.....wheres the Mercy and Forgiveness in that and how does that foster good will and a return to peace in the house? Just a thought.

And how do we know how the prophet sal allahu alayhi wa salaam dealt with his wives if we reject the ahadith?

Your logic is slightly off there.

How so?

[The_dip_sticks 0]

Hi,

Thanks for the response, I have answered a similar question to this like 5 times I wish people would just read the rest of the post as it would save me time. But I will repaste once more just for you as im a nice guy 

Hi, I've also shown you in the same Quran where Allah subhanahu wa ta'la says it's Muhammad's sal allahu alayhi wa salaam job to relay and explain the Quran. I think you need to go back and read the other verses around the ones you've quoted and understand what is being said.

thanks for the response.

1. First, the Arabic word <yad> (in dual plural in 5:38 above) or "hand" is used in Quran in its literal and figurative meanings. For instance, 27:12 uses it in its literal meaning while 5:64 uses it in its figurative one to refer to wealth and resources.

The Arabic word "yad" refers to the whole arm, including the hand. It's from the ahadith that we learn that this verse is referring to the hand from the wrist.

So the correct verse should be:

5:38, "The male thief, and the female thief, you shall cut off from their resources and power as a punishment for their crime, and to serve as a deterrent from God. God is Almighty, Wise."

Why would they be stealing if they had resources and power to cut off? The verse means what it says... BTW, who explained this verse to you? How did you come up with this explaination? I'm assuming it's an explaination that you've come up with on your own since you don't trust scholars or religious leaders to explain the Quran to you, right?

Now you tell me what is the use of cutting someones hands off???... what if he is the sole provider for his family???... is God so severe that the wife and children must become beggars to survive??? … God is Al rahman (merciful) so cutting limbs off makes no sense!

What is the use of throwing people into hellfire?

There are conditions to cutting off the thief's hand, which you would know if you read the ahadith about it.

A man can work with one hand BTW.

Also you said about beating in the Quran, just like the “cutting hands” … BEAT is not in there either. I will explain also but not today this took a lot of my time.

وَاضْرِبُوهُنَّ = and beat them

Please give us your translation?

Actualy the prayer is in there and so is the fasting

Hi, can you please describe the prayer exactly as we should pray it from the Quran?

Hi,

First of all I have explained the figurative meaning of the word (yud) as in 5:64 so whether hand or arm its of no relevence.

Second: you are now assuming things, please dont assume. I never said the person will be a millionaire. resourse and power is in all of us rich or poor, just having a body is resource and power. Example in the UK we have fines and community service as punishment. When you fine someone you are taking their resource. When you put someone in community service which is working in the community you are using that persons time (resource) and power to do the work.

This fits in exactly the same EXAMPLE given by God in the story I pasted from the Quran.

Hellfire???... what are you talking about man. Thats a final abode has nothing to do with context of this argument. I do know there are conditions in the hadith for cutting a persons hand off but it does not belong in Islam its a severe ritual. It makes no sense for a theft.

You talk about people can work after getting their hand chopped off. Please give me a break... there are hundreds of proffessions that he/ she would not be able to do and they may be skilled in them and relies on it to make their living. I would sure like to see a laborour work their construction with ONE HAND. What if he/ she is a knitter, or weaves baskets, what if their proffession is playing the piano or fixing watches, what if he/ she was an athlete, what if he/ she was a taxi driver with a gear stick..lol, what if they were hair dressers, what if they were mechanics or tv repairmen, what if they have to lift boxes or tie boxes. Infact id sure like to see a one handed man tie his shoe laces even... do I need to go on?

Yes I will post my idea on BEAT but it will also require some time.

prayer is in the Quran I have pasted someting about it, you may just look for it if you need to. But please remember I am not here to change peoples beliefs systems only to give them another angle to look at things. You can take my stuff with a pinch of salt or even redicule it for all I care. I am not even saying I am right, what I am saying is this is my understanding of the Quran. I am no Imam, scholar, spiritual leader, guru nor do I claim to be an expert theologist in Islam because I believe you dont need any of that nonsense to understand the Quran as God has said in the Quran he has made it easy for all mankind to understand. The Quran is the communication from God to all mankind not just a select few.

Peace

Adiel (Mireyas hubby)

[Alhamdulillah 0]

First of all I have explained the figurative meaning of the word (yud) as in 5:64 so whether hand or arm its of no relevence.

You have failed to explain where you got this explaination from. How do you know it's figurative and not literal? If we believe the hadith (which I know you don't) then we have to assume our prophet was thick and didn't understand this "figurative" explaination since he ordered a person's hand be cut off for stealing a shield.

Hellfire???... what are you talking about man. Thats a final abode has nothing to do with context of this argument.

Your argument is that a merciful god would not order a thief's hand to be removed... some would argue a merciful god would not send someone to hell for eternity.

I do know there are conditions in the hadith for cutting a persons hand off but it does not belong in Islam its a severe ritual. It makes no sense for a theft.

If our prophet did it or commanded it it has every place in Islam.

You talk about people can work after getting their hand chopped off. Please give me a break... there are hundreds of proffessions that he/ she would not be able to do and they may be skilled in them and relies on it to make their living. I would sure like to see a laborour work their construction with ONE HAND. What if he/ she is a knitter, or weaves baskets, what if their proffession is playing the piano or fixing watches, what if he/ she was an athlete, what if he/ she was a taxi driver with a gear stick..lol, what if they were hair dressers, what if they were mechanics or tv repairmen, what if they have to lift boxes or tie boxes. Infact id sure like to see a one handed man tie his shoe laces even... do I need to go on?

I guess they shouldn't steal huh?

Yes I will post my idea on BEAT but it will also require some time.

We have a lot of time alhamdulillah

prayer is in the Quran I have pasted someting about it, you may just look for it if you need to.

I would like you to describe it to me exactly how we should pray from verses in the Quran.

But please remember I am not here to change peoples beliefs systems only to give them another angle to look at things.

When you make threads in an immigration forum declaring that the hadith are not Islam or that the majority of muslims are a bunch of idiots because we follow these sayings, it comes across as trying to change peoples' beliefs... so you'll need to back up everything you claim sir.

You can take my stuff with a pinch of salt or even redicule it for all I care. I am not even saying I am right, what I am saying is this is my understanding of the Quran. I am no Imam, scholar, spiritual leader, guru nor do I claim to be an expert theologist in Islam because I believe you dont need any of that nonsense to understand the Quran as God has said in the Quran he has made it easy for all mankind to understand. The Quran is the communication from God to all mankind not just a select few

First of all, I'm not ridiculing you.

No one here is an imam, scholar or expert but I disagree that we don't need them. Allah subhanahu wa ta'la repeatedly mentions those who have knowledge in the Quran. Not just anyone who picks up the Quran can start reading it and understand what it means in every situation... one has to study the Quran and with it, one needs to study how the prophet sal allahu alayhi wa salaam explained it and how the scholars before us understood it.

Even your explainations come from somewhere, whether you like to admit it or not.

Just out of curiousity, are you Arab? and have you studied the Arabic language?

[The_dip_sticks 0]

First of all I have explained the figurative meaning of the word (yud) as in 5:64 so whether hand or arm its of no relevence.

You have failed to explain where you got this explaination from. How do you know it's figurative and not literal? If we believe the hadith (which I know you don't) then we have to assume our prophet was thick and didn't understand this "figurative" explaination since he ordered a person's hand be cut off for stealing a shield.

Hellfire???... what are you talking about man. Thats a final abode has nothing to do with context of this argument.

Your argument is that a merciful god would not order a thief's hand to be removed... some would argue a merciful god would not send someone to hell for eternity.

I do know there are conditions in the hadith for cutting a persons hand off but it does not belong in Islam its a severe ritual. It makes no sense for a theft.

If our prophet did it or commanded it it has every place in Islam.

You talk about people can work after getting their hand chopped off. Please give me a break... there are hundreds of proffessions that he/ she would not be able to do and they may be skilled in them and relies on it to make their living. I would sure like to see a laborour work their construction with ONE HAND. What if he/ she is a knitter, or weaves baskets, what if their proffession is playing the piano or fixing watches, what if he/ she was an athlete, what if he/ she was a taxi driver with a gear stick..lol, what if they were hair dressers, what if they were mechanics or tv repairmen, what if they have to lift boxes or tie boxes. Infact id sure like to see a one handed man tie his shoe laces even... do I need to go on?

I guess they shouldn't steal huh?

Yes I will post my idea on BEAT but it will also require some time.

We have a lot of time alhamdulillah

prayer is in the Quran I have pasted someting about it, you may just look for it if you need to.

I would like you to describe it to me exactly how we should pray from verses in the Quran.

But please remember I am not here to change peoples beliefs systems only to give them another angle to look at things.

When you make threads in an immigration forum declaring that the hadith are not Islam or that the majority of muslims are a bunch of idiots because we follow these sayings, it comes across as trying to change peoples' beliefs... so you'll need to back up everything you claim sir.

You can take my stuff with a pinch of salt or even redicule it for all I care. I am not even saying I am right, what I am saying is this is my understanding of the Quran. I am no Imam, scholar, spiritual leader, guru nor do I claim to be an expert theologist in Islam because I believe you dont need any of that nonsense to understand the Quran as God has said in the Quran he has made it easy for all mankind to understand. The Quran is the communication from God to all mankind not just a select few

First of all, I'm not ridiculing you.

No one here is an imam, scholar or expert but I disagree that we don't need them. Allah subhanahu wa ta'la repeatedly mentions those who have knowledge in the Quran. Not just anyone who picks up the Quran can start reading it and understand what it means in every situation... one has to study the Quran and with it, one needs to study how the prophet sal allahu alayhi wa salaam explained it and how the scholars before us understood it.

Even your explainations come from somewhere, whether you like to admit it or not.

Just out of curiousity, are you Arab? and have you studied the Arabic language?

Hi,

Ok this is the last time I will post on this subject because we will be going in circles. I'm not here to justify my beliefs nor do I care what you or anyone else believes in, I wouldnt even care if someone prayed to satan, thats their business.

First: Its figurative because of the example given with the story I had pasted, they followed God's law and no one had their hand cut off.

second: When I say a merciful god wouldnt chop a thieves hand off; I justify it by only the guilty should suffer and if it was a man and was the sole provider why should his wife and children suffer or maybe he even has old parents to look after.

Third: Again you are making assumptions, please dont assume things, I never called any one an idiot or trying to change beleif systems, infact I said that I may be wrong and that these are my beliefs.

Fourth: My explenations come from my own reading and my own research and understanding, I take into consideration other peoples understanding and research. So my sources are from anywhere I can find and my conclusions come from my own research and I will add ITS ONLY MY OWN UNDERSTANDING I am in no way advocating anyone to follow what I say but to come to their own conclusions.

No I am not Arab. Im british mate.

finally- you want me to explain my views on the "beat" word, which I beleive is misunderstood. This will take alot of my time as before when I showed you my understanding of theft. To be honest its alot of time and its probably not going to get us anywhere anyway. As far as the prayer system is concerned again this will take a considerable time to find the verses again and give my explenations and everything, (although I did post something about it before, its in this topic somewhere just look for it)... its all extremely taxing and I think I will decline, although do keep a look out I just may make a new topic on them just like I did HALAL.

Peace

Adiel (Mireya's hubby)

[chiquita 0]

Adiel (Mireya's hubby)---thank you for posting---i for one appreciate your understanding of Islam.

chi