What are the rules?

[Dr_LHA 3]

Yes, but in this case it was totally irrelevant, the OP's fiance was from Romania, and was not Asian.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Details, details

[no name 1]

And yet, the original questions were not addressed...which truly was my main reason for starting this thread.

Edited August 14, 2007 by devilette

[TracyTN 237]

We get it - take everything to PM.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I can see how well that policy is working out...

Seriously, if 'take it to PM' the end all be all solution, would we keep ending up having a need for these kinds of threads?

I think we're stuck in the proverbial worm hole at this point.

[kitkat1 5]

We get it - take everything to PM.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I can see how well that policy is working out...

Seriously, if 'take it to PM' the end all be all solution, would we keep ending up having a need for these kinds of threads?

I think we're stuck in the proverbial worm hole at this point.

I'm with you Tracy!

Take it to PM is a cop-out. It's obviously much easier to ignore a PM and avoid addressing these issues if it's not talked about in the open forum. And the fact that these threads keep popping up just proves that this "method" is not working. . .

[TracyTN 237]

I will say this and hopefully it helps make the policy of suspensions a little better. I will personally remind all the mods to check the "email" and not "PM" button when suspending someone so that the message will get to the member. Further in general I am the person to review any moderator action however this last week I went days without internet and was clearly very slow getting on top of things. Until today in fact I have still had minutes of internet a day versus the normal amount. I will not announce this publicly when I am away for obvious reasons but the mods generally can pick up any day to day activities. As for comments made in the thread in question and the suspension I would apologize to any member that was offended by any language by a member or moderator. I was not online to read this at the time but I want to make it clear that this site is about acceptance of all people from everywhere and respect for the multicultural nature of the site. Sometimes people say things in the heat of the moment that is off tone and we should all remember to think twice before posting as written text is often read without the context of the situation and can not be taken back easily. If you ever need anything just email or PM me and I will do my best to address it. I prefer PM's or emails on admin related topics as open forum posts cause a mod effect typically and also do not allow us to personally tailor responses back due to privacy reasons.

I can understand that when the post in question is in the midst of some kind of argument or disagreement within the thread.

But in the particular example in question, that wasn't the situation. If any other person had posted it, its highly likely they would have gotten a wrist slap by a mod to be sure not to generalize in such a way about PI fiancees. IF someone had taken the time to PM a mod about it, that is. What's laughable in that thread is that someone in it tried to take the issues to PM but still did not get the answer they wanted (sound familiar?).

For dev's case, why should she feel the need to 'take back' the quotation of a dictionary definition if she felt it an apt description of the person she was referring to (and if it wasn't blatantly getting personal)?

[no name 1]

But in the particular example in question, that wasn't the situation. If any other person had posted it, its highly likely they would have gotten a wrist slap by a mod to be sure not to generalize in such a way about PI fiancees. IF someone had taken the time to PM a mod about it, that is. What's laughable in that thread is that someone in it tried to take the issues to PM but still did not get the answer they wanted (sound familiar?).

For dev's case, why should she feel the need to 'take back' the quotation of a dictionary definition if she felt it an apt description of the person she was referring to (and if it wasn't blatantly getting personal)?

And the initial inciting post that spurred my 'definition post' & his subsequent attack were ignored as well.

I get it, I'm hated by all of VJ. Sheesh. Doesn't mean this was NOT FAIR & nothing is being done to explain it.

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

When it was only me moderating I eventually realized that we needed more mods per public support of the idea. We adding some and although it has helped to address the number of TOS violations faster it will also lead to variation in moderation to a degree as they are all not me. I will use this time to help spread out of further info to the mods on how to deal with things to hopefully better harmonize us but in general there is a double edged sword when there are more mods... that being there is an improved response to issues but greater variability. Not sure on the best solution but when the new mods were created it was the general opinion that all of them were fair and balanced people as best as humanly possible -- which I still think is the case. We all want to help out as VJ members and the mods do their best to help in every way that they can. They do this out of the goodness of their heart to support the community. I hope that we can all remember that and if we think things could be better we should focus on proactive contstructive ideas and not on finding all the faults and harping on them -- if you look at an egg there are cracks everywhere, but in the end it is still and egg and does its job -- such is being human. (cliche sorry)

[no name 1]

When it was only me moderating I eventually realized that we needed more mods per public support of the idea. We adding some and although it has helped to address the number of TOS violations faster it will also lead to variation in moderation to a degree as they are all not me. I will use this time to help spread out of further info to the mods on how to deal with things to hopefully better harmonize us but in general there is a double edged sword when there are more mods... that being there is an improved response to issues but greater variability. Not sure on the best solution but when the new mods were created it was the general opinion that all of them were fair and balanced people as best as humanly possible -- which I still think is the case. We all want to help out as VJ members and the mods do their best to help in every way that they can. They do this out of the goodness of their heart to support the community. I hope that we can all remember that and if we think things could be better we should focus on proactive contstructive ideas and not on finding all the faults and harping on them -- if you look at an egg there are cracks everywhere, but in the end it is still and egg and does its job -- such is being human. (cliche sorry)

So that's it then? It all gets swept under the rug?

Edit: And mods may or may not warn us, depends on how they're feeling?

Edited August 14, 2007 by devilette

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

Dev-

I have asked the mods to warn on first offenses. They are human and may forget -- I mess up sometimes too. There is not rug but it is honestly frustrating to be second guessed and questioned on every decision we make. We are not perfect and make mistakes -- human mistakes. We on the whole try our best and think we do a good job. If you want to make a list of faults please make a list of the things we do good as well. it is very disheartening to always be attacked, nick-picked and told how bad we do for every little thing when in truth we try very hard to do a good job. Not every decision will be the right choice nor be something everyone can agree on. I am not sure what else to say to make you happy.

[TracyTN 237]

More of the same - we're supposed to feel bad by questioning a decision because they're doing this job out of the kindness of their hearts. Right, heard it before, understand and do believe it to an extent - I think we all have stated that we do empathize.

Its no solution to say 'take it to PM', cos even when you do, there are still unanswered questions. Its no solution to post something here because then all your told is take it to PM and the mods are volunteers. (again, no new news here)

I understand the desire to 'close ranks' and back your mods - I think you SHOULD do that, Ewok. But if you can't/won't explain why a moderator banned someone - and that moderator can't/won't explain the ban in PM (your preferred method of communication) - then I still think that dev's thread title is very apropos.

Its ok for you to disagree with your mod's decisions, too - and no one would ask or expect you to do that publicly. But if that is the case, then it'd be nice to explain to the banned party on PM or email that you disagreed with the decision, etc. and so on.

Yet, I am not dim enough to expect some kind of answer here (beyond 'take it to PM'). I guess the only thing we will come away from this thread with is 'don't use dictionary definitions to describe someone or you'll get banned'. (Thanks for the lesson, dev!)

[no name 1]

Dev-

I have asked the mods to warn on first offenses. They are human and may forget -- I mess up sometimes too. There is not rug but it is honestly frustrating to be second guessed and questioned on every decision we make. We are not perfect and make mistakes -- human mistakes. We on the whole try our best and think we do a good job. If you want to make a list of faults please make a list of the things we do good as well. it is very disheartening to always be attacked, nick-picked and told how bad we do for every little thing when in truth we try very hard to do a good job. Not every decision will be the right choice nor be something everyone can agree on. I am not sure what else to say to make you happy.

Warn before a ban or before an offensive post? I was only banned, without a SINGLE warning yet I posted no attack.

An apology would be great, but I won't hold my breath. An apology to thne PI forum would be great too.

Posting the rules for banning would be helpful as well.

Yet, I am not dim enough to expect some kind of answer here (beyond 'take it to PM'). I guess the only thing we will come away from this thread with is 'don't use dictionary definitions to describe someone or you'll get banned'. (Thanks for the lesson, dev!)

Glad to be your guinea pig.

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

Sorry we are not perfect Dev. We will try harder.

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

Its ok for you to disagree with your mod's decisions, too - and no one would ask or expect you to do that publicly. But if that is the case, then it'd be nice to explain to the banned party on PM or email that you disagreed with the decision, etc. and so on.

I hope that this means that you understand that if I ever did disagree with a mod that I would talk to them directly and not share this with anyone for privacay reasons. As you know, people talk. If I tell one person they will tell two, etc..

[TracyTN 237]

Yes, because after all, when we pose such questions, what we're really saying is 'The moderators suck, we hate them all and why aren't they perfect???!!!'

Give me a break. All we're asking for is what in dev's post constituted a ban? We all know that personal attacks, violations of TOS, etc and so on are ban worthy - but I have seen people do and say MUCH worse to each other in threads than what dev did - hell, I'm quite sure I've said worse things in the past, but I was not banned.

But I suppose its much easier just to play the blame game and make it look as if we're attacking the job you do. SO not the point.

I'm sure I won't be here after this (not for a few days anyway) take screenshots everyone.

Its ok for you to disagree with your mod's decisions, too - and no one would ask or expect you to do that publicly. But if that is the case, then it'd be nice to explain to the banned party on PM or email that you disagreed with the decision, etc. and so on.

I hope that this means that you understand that if I ever did disagree with a mod that I would talk to them directly and not share this with anyone for privacay reasons. As you know, people talk. If I tell one person they will tell two, etc..

Um, yes, which is why I wrote the section in bold.

At the end of the day - here's the question. Why is what dev did in that thread a ban worthy offense while the rest of what went on in that thread was acceptable?

I feel I know the answer. Its in who was the deliverer of said message. Which is sad, because I thought the rules here applied to everyone.

Edited August 14, 2007 by TracyTN