Managing Rental Property, count as "work" for ESTA?

[garebear397 84]

This might be getting into the weeds, but just want to know exactly what would count as "work" in regards to visiting on ESTA. My mother-in-law (from Chile) will be visiting us probably quite frequently once we move back to the US. She is a widow, retired, and lives off of her pension and income from her beach rental property. It just occurred to me, that management of her property remotely potentially could count as work and would not be permitted while she was visiting the US -- anyone have advice or more detailed reference of what is permitted and not on a ESTA? 

 

Just for details, she has someone that manages probably 95% of the work of the property (booking, managing guests, cleaning, supplies, etc.). But my MIL every once and a while has to talk to a guest, or reimburse her property manager for some expense or something. 

 

[ineedadisplayname 503]

It is a gray area because the ESTA/tourist visa is not for living in the US. The 90 days  to 6 months for tourist visas is quite normal around the world and some people use that 90 day to the limit. My guess is back when these time frames were adopted nobody really thought that people would try to stay up to the last day and that creates these situations that are not really thought out. Plus globalization and tech advancements that you can work from anywhere in some cases.

 

I think your MIL is going to be fine, there is no expectation of putting your life on hold (e.g not paying bills) while in the US.

 

It would be completely different if she would be managing a property in the US while on ESTA.

 

I would be more worried about the frequency (and length) of the visits.

Edited Tuesday at 05:13 PM by ineedadisplayname

[garebear397 84]

42 minutes ago, ineedadisplayname said:

It is a gray area because the ESTA/tourist visa is not for living in the US. The 90 days  to 6 months for tourist visas is quite normal around the world and some people use that 90 day to the limit. My guess is back when these time frames were adopted nobody really thought that people would try to stay up to the last day and that creates these situations that are not really thought out. Plus globalization and tech advancements that you can work from anywhere in some cases.

 

I think your MIL is going to be fine, there is no expectation of putting your life on hold (e.g not paying bills) while in the US.

 

It would be completely different if she would be managing a property in the US while on ESTA.

 

I would be more worried about the frequency (and length) of the visits.

No yeah, we are very clear how much time for her to spend here, we are not trying to abuse ESTA at all, she will spend at least double the time away that she will spend in the US, etc. 

 

Ok yeah I thought in general she should be fine on the work front, especially since she has a property manager. And that also helps if they question at the border, that she explain that she can be away so long because she has someone that manages the property. 

 

[S2N 17]

No, it does not count as work for ESTA. You are allowed to do the same activities you would do on a B1/B2 visa and conducting business in your home country from the United States is allowed under those.

 

People on the internet always forget that business is a valid use of those visas and it’s not the same as work.

 

Example: a businessman comes to the United States from Chile and takes a call from his hotel in Miami with his Chilean employer while attending a conference at a hotel there. Clearly allowed under the terms of a B1/B2 visa. Therefore clearly allowed under ESTA.

 

Your suegra is visiting you in the United States and takes a call from her property manager to tell him how to manage business in Chile. That’s even less work than the example above — she’s a businesswoman managing a business in her native country while legally in the U.S. permitted under B1/B2; therefore permitted under ESTA.

 

The basic test is “would this be allowed if I replaced [family member] with 'businessperson visiting the United States'”

[garebear397 84]

4 hours ago, S2N said:

No, it does not count as work for ESTA. You are allowed to do the same activities you would do on a B1/B2 visa and conducting business in your home country from the United States is allowed under those.

 

People on the internet always forget that business is a valid use of those visas and it’s not the same as work.

 

Example: a businessman comes to the United States from Chile and takes a call from his hotel in Miami with his Chilean employer while attending a conference at a hotel there. Clearly allowed under the terms of a B1/B2 visa. Therefore clearly allowed under ESTA.

 

Your suegra is visiting you in the United States and takes a call from her property manager to tell him how to manage business in Chile. That’s even less work than the example above — she’s a businesswoman managing a business in her native country while legally in the U.S. permitted under B1/B2; therefore permitted under ESTA.

 

The basic test is “would this be allowed if I replaced [family member] with 'businessperson visiting the United States'”

While I agree and think she is fine to take a call or make a payment -- I do want to be clear (for other people that stumble upon this thread too), just because your work or business is outside of the US does not mean it is always allowed with B1/B2 visa. Like you can't work your 9-5 remotely for a company located outside the US, while in the US on a tourist visa -- especially if you visiting the US has nothing to do with your job. The B1 visa is for a specific temporary work obligation, like meeting with a client, attending a conference, closing a negotiation, or like your example. 

 

 

 

[S2N 17]

2 hours ago, garebear397 said:

While I agree and think she is fine to take a call or make a payment -- I do want to be clear (for other people that stumble upon this thread too), just because your work or business is outside of the US does not mean it is always allowed with B1/B2 visa. Like you can't work your 9-5 remotely for a company located outside the US, while in the US on a tourist visa -- especially if you visiting the US has nothing to do with your job. The B1 visa is for a specific temporary work obligation, like meeting with a client, attending a conference, closing a negotiation, or like your example. 

 

 

 

Correct. But taking a call while in the United States isn’t working a 9-5.

 

What’s work vs. what’s business is context specific and the one of the key distinctions is whether it’s temporary, and there’s also the nature of the work performed (i.e. are you actively creating something productive or are you taking meetings, etc.) Your situation is more of taking a call once and a while.

Edited yesterday at 02:59 PM by S2N