J.D. Vance's Munich Wake-Up Call: Democracy, Censorship, and the Will of the People

[Lee Thacket 73]

On 2/17/2025 at 5:55 AM, ameriran said:

Thanks for ###### up our country, the world, and the immigration process of many. I hope you and all the MAGAts get what’s coming to you soon

 

This comment makes no sense. That is not how democracy and economics work.

[TBoneTX 46,586]

1 minute ago, Lee Thacket said:

This comment makes no sense. That is not how democracy and economics work.

That member has undergone draconian administrative action and is now on permanent "VJ vacation."   

[Lee Thacket 73]

2 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

That member has undergone draconian administrative action and is now on permanent "VJ vacation."   

 

Oh dear. I hope he or she is allowed back soon.

 

I managed to write a several hundred word post above  a few minutes ago without insulting anyone, posting links or talking about my political beliefs ....

[TBoneTX 46,586]

37 minutes ago, Lee Thacket said:

I hope he or she is allowed back soon.

Nope.

38 minutes ago, Lee Thacket said:

I managed to write a several hundred word post above  a few minutes ago without insulting anyone, posting links or talking about my political beliefs ....

You did, and whether others agree or disagree with it, similar thoughtful, respectful posts from you are very welcome.

[Lee Thacket 73]

1 hour ago, TBoneTX said:

Nope.

You did, and whether others agree or disagree with it, similar thoughtful, respectful posts from you are very welcome.

 

Thank you.

 

I found the tone of many of the above posts a bit strange, not just the person who was removed. That made me hesitate about adding my comments.

[TBoneTX 46,586]

Von Trapp Family Crosses The Alps Into Switzerland To Escape Free Speech

 

SALZBURG, AUSTRIA — The well-respected Von Trapp family has reportedly fled across the alps to Switzerland to escape the ever growing threat of free speech.

Before their departure, former naval officer Georg von Trapp warned that free speech had been weaponized in Germany and was spreading into Austria.  In response, he took his family, comprised of the Trapp Family Singers, and fled over the mountains to neutral Switzerland where they could be safe from people sharing their opinions.

"We can't stay here.  The Nazis are using free speech to round up Jews," Von Trapp reportedly said.  "And that's horrifying."  [...]

https://babylonbee.com/news/von-trapp-family-crosses-the-alps-into-switzerland-to-escape-free-speech

[Dashinka 25,149]

On 2/21/2025 at 10:46 PM, Lee Thacket said:

Article 5 of The German constitution guarantees freedom of speech as does Article 10 of The European Convention on Human Rights.

 

What JD Vance and his speech writers don't seem to understand is that the German constitution is a bit different to the America one. There is actually a Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution. This set up is based on recent German history. The British and Americans helped write up the new German constitution. Political parties with thousands of voters can be banned if it is thought they will subvert the constitutional order.  This has only happened twice in the last 75 years  - The German Reich Party (1952) and the German Communist Party (1956).

 

The AfD have not been banned, though they were thrown of their European parliament grouping when one of their members appeared to say not everyone in the SS was a criminal.

 

There is a convention in politics/diplomacy that you don't back political parties in another country's election.

 

Mr Vance appears to think there is a populist wave being resisted by the so-called elites. The opinion polls don't support that. We'll see how the votes stack up on Sunday.

 

I studied Nazi Germany in depth many years ago. I don't recall any historians saying it was suppression of free speech that brought the Nazis to power. He received a rather light jail sentence for an attempted coup in the army 1920s. The Roman Catholic Church, mainstream conservatives, the Reichstag Fire, national pride and fear of communism all helped Hitler gain power.

How is it decided that someone or some party will potentially subvert the constitution?  Using circular logic isn't it possible that the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution is potentially subverting Article 5 of the German Constitution?  I am always troubled when governments set up "Thought" police agencies, and this can turn extremely political depending on who is running the show.  But hey, Germany can be happy that they also have Reactionary Thought Police in the DPRK.

 

 I agree with your last paragraph, but I would add the way WWI ended to the list of aids of the rise of Hitler in the 1930s.

Edited February 24 by Dashinka

[Lee Thacket 73]

1 hour ago, Dashinka said:

How is it decided that someone or some party will potentially subvert the constitution?  Using circular logic isn't it possible that the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution is potentially subverting Article 5 of the German Constitution?  I am always troubled when governments set up "Thought" police agencies, and this can turn extremely political depending on who is running the show.  But hey, Germany can be happy that they also have Reactionary Thought Police in the DPRK.

 

 I agree with your last paragraph, but I would add the way WWI ended to the list of aids of the rise of Hitler in the 1930s.

 

Good question. I guess the framers of the post-war constitution, which included the British and Americans, had an attitude of "never again". Only two political parties have ever been banned.

 

The German political system works really well. The country is generally rated in the top twenty place to live under metrics such as healthcare, freedom of the press etc.

 

In terms of the post WW1 settlement I wonder what would have happened if the Kaiser had not been removed.

[Dashinka 25,149]

3 minutes ago, Lee Thacket said:

 

Good question. I guess the framers of the post-war constitution, which included the British and Americans, had an attitude of "never again". Only two political parties have ever been banned.

 

The German political system works really well. The country is generally rated in the top twenty place to live under metrics such as healthcare, freedom of the press etc.

 

In terms of the post WW1 settlement I wonder what would have happened if the Kaiser had not been removed.

I guess I was referring more to what appears to be happening in Germany to individuals.  I saw the 60 Minutes piece where the German prosecutors were saying people can be prosecuted for "offending" someone online and apparently a raid was staged showing their power.  I agree the framers back in the late 1940s were very close to the post Hitler government and of course saw the atrocities committed by the Nazi Party, but it seems that the German government is expanding their enforcement powers. 

[Dashinka 25,149]

Hmm, maybe the "progressives" in Europe are waking up after Zelensky(y)'s performance last Friday.

[TBoneTX 46,586]

German In Jail For A Meme Sure Hopes EU Can Stop Spread Of Russian Tyranny

 

FRANKFURT — According to sources, a German man who was jailed by authorities for sharing a meme is expressing hope that the European Union will stop the spread of Russian tyranny.

Adelbert Schneider, who has been held in solitary confinement for posting an insensitive meme depicting the Prophet Muhammed dressed as SpongeBob SquarePants in 2019, relayed to a reporter he hoped that Germany and its allies in the EU would stop Putin's aggression before Russia had a chance to take away the freedoms of German citizens.

"It's Europe's only hope for pretend freedom," Schneider said through the narrow slot of his prison cell door.  "If Vladimir Putin and [...]

https://babylonbee.com/news/german-in-jail-for-a-meme-sure-hopes-eu-can-stop-spread-of-russian-tyranny

[Ban Hammer 13,828]

7 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

German In Jail For A Meme Sure Hopes EU Can Stop Spread Of Russian Tyranny

 

FRANKFURT — According to sources, a German man who was jailed by authorities for sharing a meme is expressing hope that the European Union will stop the spread of Russian tyranny.

Adelbert Schneider, who has been held in solitary confinement for posting an insensitive meme depicting the Prophet Muhammed dressed as SpongeBob SquarePants in 2019, relayed to a reporter he hoped that Germany and its allies in the EU would stop Putin's aggression before Russia had a chance to take away the freedoms of German citizens.

"It's Europe's only hope for pretend freedom," Schneider said through the narrow slot of his prison cell door.  "If Vladimir Putin and [...]

https://babylonbee.com/news/german-in-jail-for-a-meme-sure-hopes-eu-can-stop-spread-of-russian-tyranny

yeah they sure are safe over there.
i wonder if this is what the democrats mean when they say they want the usa to be more like europe..........
https://www.instagram.com/p/DGr6_Qaux-U/?img_index=1