Does USCIS counts both departure and return days as days of physical presence in US?

[JKLSemicolon 423]

8 hours ago, soontobecitizen said:

So, I was absent from the United States for 180 days and returned on September 12, 2020. Am I correct in understanding that this means I can apply 6 months before my 5 year anniversary of continuous permanent residence, which would then be 12 March 2025? So I don't have to wait until 12 September 2025? Just to be clear, I have traveled twice since Sep 2020: for 2 months in 2022 and 3 months in 2023.

Correct, although the standard recommendation is to wait until at least a few days into that 6-month window just to be on the safe side.

[soontobecitizen 1]

20 hours ago, JKLSemicolon said:

Correct, although the standard recommendation is to wait until at least a few days into that 6-month window just to be on the safe side.

I might have misinterpreted, but I think I found another piece of information on the USCIS website that contradicts the possibility of filing N-400 application 6 months before the 5th anniversary of continuous permanent residence.

 

According to USCIS Early Filing Calculator 

You may file Form N-400, Application for Naturalization, 90 calendar days before you complete your continuous residence requirement if your eligibility for naturalization is based upon being a:

Permanent resident for at least 5 years;

 

So, is this 90 days or 6 months?

Edited January 21 by soontobecitizen

[JKLSemicolon 423]

56 minutes ago, soontobecitizen said:

I might have misinterpreted, but I think I found another piece of information on the USCIS website that contradicts the possibility of filing N-400 application 6 months before the 5th anniversary of continuous permanent residence.

 

According to USCIS Early Filing Calculator 

You may file Form N-400, Application for Naturalization, 90 calendar days before you complete your continuous residence requirement if your eligibility for naturalization is based upon being a:

Permanent resident for at least 5 years;

 

So, is this 90 days or 6 months?

Good eye. It appears that not all the info out there is up to date. In that case I would defer to the form instructions which mention 90 days: https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/forms/n-400instr.pdf

[OldUser 7,534]

1 hour ago, JKLSemicolon said:

Good eye. It appears that not all the info out there is up to date. In that case I would defer to the form instructions which mention 90 days: https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/forms/n-400instr.pdf

But if that long trip which broke residence is within 5 years lookback during 90 day window, IO may argue OP did not reside in the US at that point.

 

Again, it all depends on OP's risk tolerance.

Edited January 22 by OldUser

[soontobecitizen 1]

54 minutes ago, OldUser said:

But if that long trip which broke residence is within 5 years lookback during 90 day window, IO may argue OP did not reside in the US at that point.

 

Again, it all depends on OP's risk tolerance.

Sorry, I dind't understand this. Can you please elaborate more? My 5 years from the moment I got back from that long trip will be on Sep-12,2025.

[OldUser 7,534]

26 minutes ago, soontobecitizen said:

Sorry, I dind't understand this. Can you please elaborate more? My 5 years from the moment I got back from that long trip will be on Sep-12,2025.

So my recommendation is not to file within 90 day window prior to Sep 12, 2025. I'd file September 13 or later. So you wouldn't have to list the trip or have to convince anybody you maintained residency.

Edited January 22 by OldUser

[JKLSemicolon 423]

16 hours ago, OldUser said:

So my recommendation is not to file within 90 day window prior to Sep 12, 2025. I'd file September 13 or later. So you wouldn't have to list the trip or have to convince anybody you maintained residency.

I agree with this.

 

While USCIS’s own examples mention the possibility of filing as soon as the window opens even under similar circumstances, @OldUser makes a good point that the 5-year travel history on the form will be much less questionable if waiting until 5 years after the return date from the long absence.

 

If I were in that situation, waiting an additional 90 days would be worth it to feel more confident and less stressed about the process.

[soontobecitizen 1]

4 hours ago, JKLSemicolon said:

the 5-year travel history on the form will be much less questionable if waiting until 5 years after the return date from the long absence.

The reason is that it was during COVID and there were no direct flights back to the US and I couldn't risk taking a 2 day layover with a baby for fear of it getting cancelled as many people had reported something similar happening to them. There is a section when you fill out the N-400 online to upload any explanation for anything. Do you think anyone will actually read it if I upload one explaining the reason? For some reason, I'm pretty sure that if I explain the situation during the interview, I won't have any problems. The problem is that they might reject the application before they even invite me for an interview, right?

[OldUser 7,534]

4 hours ago, soontobecitizen said:

The reason is that it was during COVID and there were no direct flights back to the US and I couldn't risk taking a 2 day layover with a baby for fear of it getting cancelled as many people had reported something similar happening to them. There is a section when you fill out the N-400 online to upload any explanation for anything. Do you think anyone will actually read it if I upload one explaining the reason? For some reason, I'm pretty sure that if I explain the situation during the interview, I won't have any problems. The problem is that they might reject the application before they even invite me for an interview, right?

You can give it a go. We're giving you a bulletproof plan, but you can choose to take some risk.

 

Your application can be rejected before the interview if you don't pay correct fees, submit wrong form edition or miss pages or forget to sign it.

 

Your application cannot be denied without interview.

 

Note that words rejected and denied have diffrent meaning and cannot be used interchangeably.

[soontobecitizen 1]

12 hours ago, OldUser said:

Your application cannot be denied without interview.

It's just SalishSea said "You can be denied at either the application adjudication phase, or at the interview". But if you say I can't be denied without the interview, then I think I can take the risk. Let me explain my reasoning. My "new" 5 years will be in September. That's at least 8 months away. I see people getting their interviews within 6-8 months (I understand with a new US admin and other unexpected things it may take longer). So I'm expecting an interview around September. If I'm denied, I can immediately reapply in September, which will be already 5+ years of continuous residency, and I won't have even to mention this long trip anymore. So the only risk I see is money, which I'm willing to take if it potentially saves me 8 months. Am I missing anything?

Edited January 23 by soontobecitizen

[OldUser 7,534]

59 minutes ago, soontobecitizen said:

It's just SalishSea said "You can be denied at either the application adjudication phase, or at the interview". But if you say I can't be denied without the interview, then I think I can take the risk. Let me explain my reasoning. My "new" 5 years will be in September. That's at least 8 months away. I see people getting their interviews within 6-8 months (I understand with a new US admin and other unexpected things it may take longer). So I'm expecting an interview around September. If I'm denied, I can immediately reapply in September, which will be already 5+ years of continuous residency, and I won't have even to mention this long trip anymore. So the only risk I see is money, which I'm willing to take if it potentially saves me 8 months. Am I missing anything?

If denied first time, you'll also have denial in your immigration history which may slow down / slightly complicate processing N-400 the second time. 

[ODATT 27]

On 1/20/2025 at 9:34 AM, soontobecitizen said:

So, I was absent from the United States for 180 days and returned on September 12, 2020. Am I correct in understanding that this means I can apply 6 months before my 5 year anniversary of continuous permanent residence, which would then be 12 March 2025? So I don't have to wait until 12 September 2025? Just to be clear, I have traveled twice since Sep 2020: for 2 months in 2022 and 3 months in 2023.

 

I just realized that I had no idea that a denial is recorded in immigration history and what that could mean for someone. 
 

always providing some new tidbit @OldUser