Does USCIS counts both departure and return days as days of physical presence in US?

[soontobecitizen 0]

I was outside of US 182 days or 5 months and 29 days excluding the end date. But, everywhere I read it says USCIS counts both the departure and return days as days of physical presence in the United States. If that's true then that means that I was outside of US not 182 but 180 days. Also, that was the beginning of COVID and I read that they extended the period from 180 days to one year.

Did anyone had similar case? It seems that since I was exactly 180 days but not more then I didn't break my continuous residence requirement, right?

[OldUser 7,323]

4 minutes ago, soontobecitizen said:

I was outside of US 182 days or 5 months and 29 days excluding the end date. But, everywhere I read it says USCIS counts both the departure and return days as days of physical presence in the United States. If that's true then that means that I was outside of US not 182 but 180 days. Also, that was the beginning of COVID and I read that they extended the period from 180 days to one year.

Did anyone had similar case? It seems that since I was exactly 180 days but not more then I didn't break my continuous residence requirement, right?

Technically you're right but you're so close to breaking residence that you have to be very careful and precise to prove you didn't break residence. It's very likely you'll be asked to prove ties at that time. Did you keep US lease? US job? Bank accounts in the US?

 

You can avoid potential issue altogether by waiting to file N-400 until your 5 year anniverary of coming back to the US after that long trip during COVID time. Would it be fair to say you can just file later this year?

Edited 9 hours ago by OldUser

[soontobecitizen 0]

I lost my job due to Covid and traveled to my home country to visit family. During this time I didn't work (this was my also opportunity to take vacation), but during this period I continued paying for the apartment lease, filed taxes, had my bank account, paid utilities and so on.

My 5 years would be in another 8 months. This is a lot to wait. So, if I continued paying for the apartment lease, filed taxes, had my bank account, paid utilities and so on, isn't this enough to show that I didn't abandon? 

Edited 9 hours ago by soontobecitizen

[OldUser 7,323]

6 minutes ago, soontobecitizen said:

I lost my job due to Covid and traveled to my home country to visit family. During this time I didn't work (this was my also opportunity to take vacation), but during this period I continued paying for the apartment lease, filed taxes, had my bank account, paid utilities and so on.

My 5 years would be in another 8 months. This is a lot to wait. So, if I continued paying for the apartment lease, filed taxes, had my bank account, paid utilities and so on, isn't this enough to show that I didn't abandon? 

On the other hand, N-400 can take 6-12 months only to find yourself in a hot spot and potential denial.

 

But since you kept lease and filed taxes, I think you should be OK convincing officer that you didn't abandon residence.

 

Again, it may not be the simplest case if officer is very particular about travel, but it is approvable in my opinion.

[soontobecitizen 0]

"By convincing officer", do you mean during the interview? I just assumed that if it's denied I won't even get to the interview and won't even get a chance to explain and show any evidence. So, should I upload any explanation in advance when I file N-400 form or should I wait till the interview to explain and show the lease agreament, taxe returns, bank statements and so on?

[SalishSea 18,087]

1 hour ago, soontobecitizen said:

"By convincing officer", do you mean during the interview? I just assumed that if it's denied I won't even get to the interview and won't even get a chance to explain and show any evidence. So, should I upload any explanation in advance when I file N-400 form or should I wait till the interview to explain and show the lease agreament, taxe returns, bank statements and so on?

You can be denied at either the application adjudication phase, or at the interview.  Ultimately, it is up to the interviewing officer.

 

I agree with Olduser, that if your timeline is borderline, it would be better to just wait.

[soontobecitizen 0]

Assuming I'm taking the risk and god forbig am denied, how soon could I apply again after I'm denied?

[appleblossom 2,971]

Another vote for applying later this year. Unless there’s a specific reason you want citizenship rather than LPR status, for the sake of 8 months, I’d just wait to apply personally.

[SalishSea 18,087]

5 minutes ago, soontobecitizen said:

Assuming I'm taking the risk and god forbig am denied, how soon could I apply again after I'm denied?

There isn't really a time limit on that, but if you reapply immediately with the same situation, expect another denial.

[soontobecitizen 0]

6 minutes ago, SalishSea said:

There isn't really a time limit on that, but if you reapply immediately with the same situation, expect another denial.

My 5 years will be in 8 months. But, I know that I can start applying 90 days before, right? If I apply now, I don't think I'll get any answer for at least 6 months. So, if I'm denied after 6 months I'll be already in "valid" situation to apply, right?

I know it's a gamble, but I won't be with the same situation after 6 months. 

[OldUser 7,323]

50 minutes ago, soontobecitizen said:

My 5 years will be in 8 months. But, I know that I can start applying 90 days before, right? If I apply now, I don't think I'll get any answer for at least 6 months. So, if I'm denied after 6 months I'll be already in "valid" situation to apply, right?

I know it's a gamble, but I won't be with the same situation after 6 months. 

In 6 months, will the trip be in the 5 year lookback period or not? I would not reapply, if you get denied, until this trip doesn't have to be listed.

 

Unless you're hoping to sponsor somebody for immigration benefit, or get job requiring US citizenship, or travel to destination that requires visa now, but not for US passport holders, or planning to spend 6+ months overseas again... I would wait 8 months now.

 

Things will likely get stricter from January 20th. Whatever worked before may be harder to prove now.

 

It's your choice afterall. Good luck!

Edited 6 hours ago by OldUser

[JKLSemicolon 419]

Just including a link to the verified source of what days count as physical presence for everyone’s benefit:

 

https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-d-chapter-4

 

Quote

USCIS will count the day that an applicant departs from the United States and the day he or she returns as days of physical presence within the United States for naturalization purposes.

 

[soontobecitizen 0]

1 hour ago, JKLSemicolon said:

Just including a link to the verified source of what days count as physical presence for everyone’s benefit:

 

https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-d-chapter-4

 

 

I followed your link and checked also regarding continuous residence. Did I understood correctly that after breaking continuous residence I need to wait 5.5 years? This is the example they gave here https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-d-chapter-3:

 

"Eligibility After Break in Residence

An applicant who USCIS determines to have broken the continuity of residence must establish a new period of continuous residence in order to become eligible for naturalization.[15] The requisite duration of that period depends on the basis upon which the applicant seeks to naturalize.[16] In general, such an applicant may become eligible and may apply for naturalization at least 6 months before reaching the end of the pertinent statutory period.[17]

Example

An applicant who is subject to a 5-year statutory period for naturalization is absent from the United States for 8 months, returning on August 1, 2018. The applicant has been absent from the United States for more than 6 months (180 days) but less than 1 year (365 days). As such, the applicant must be able to rebut the presumption of a break in the continuity of residence in order to meet the continuous residence requirement for naturalization.

If the applicant is unable to rebut the presumption, he or she must wait until at least 6 months from reaching the 5-year anniversary of the newly established statutory period following the applicant’s return to the United States. In this example, the newly established statutory period began on August 1, 2018, when the applicant returned to the United States. Therefore, the earliest the applicant may re-apply for naturalization is February 1, 2023, which is at least 6 months from the 5-year anniversary of the pertinent statutory period.[18]

Edited 4 hours ago by soontobecitizen