Trump admin immigration changes? [merged threads]

[Lee Thacket 43]

1 hour ago, Family said:

Companion piece to this post

 

 

 

Oh brilliant.  I forgot to mention he has lots of videos on YouTube for those who do not want to read the book.  He also had a Twitter account, but unfortunately left because of all the abuse he was getting.  Migrants fleeing climate change is one of the myths he discusses in the book which I found difficult to understand.  Perhaps the video will help to make it clearer for me?

 

[Family 4,124]

1 hour ago, Lee Thacket said:

 

Oh brilliant.  I forgot to mention he has lots of videos on YouTube for those who do not want to read the book.  He also had a Twitter account, but unfortunately left because of all the abuse he was getting.  Migrants fleeing climate change is one of the myths he discusses in the book which I found difficult to understand.  Perhaps the video will help to make it clearer for me?

 

The fact that labor /jobs availability is the major  dynamic for US border has been always been my belief…first line of defense is getting employers ( big, small , mom and pop shops or domestic ) to abide the laws. 
Less “illegal employers” = Less “illegal aliens”

 

 

 

[Lee Thacket 43]

1 hour ago, Family said:

The fact that labor /jobs availability is the major  dynamic for US border has been always been my belief…first line of defense is getting employers ( big, small , mom and pop shops or domestic ) to abide the laws. 
Less “illegal employers” = Less “illegal aliens”

 

 

 

 

Yes, that is the main point I took from the 370 pages in the book namely that labour market demand is the driver of legal and illegal immigration. (Myth 2: Borders are beyond control.) People come to work rather than commit crime. (Myth 12: Immigration sends crime rates soaring.)

 

Using 2004 figures he makes the point there are six times more people involved in border enforcement than worksite enforcement. Prosecutions and fines are low. Jail time for employers of illegal immigrants is rare.

 

(How Migration Really Works: the facts about the most divisive issue in politics, Hein de Haas, Basic Books, Hachette, 2023)

 

[Family 4,124]

3 hours ago, Lee Thacket said:

 

Yes, that is the main point I took from the 370 pages in the book namely that labour market demand is the driver of legal and illegal immigration. (Myth 2: Borders are beyond control.) People come to work rather than commit crime. (Myth 12: Immigration sends crime rates soaring.)

 

Using 2004 figures he makes the point there are six times more people involved in border enforcement than worksite enforcement. Prosecutions and fines are low. Jail time for employers of illegal immigrants is rare.

 

(How Migration Really Works: the facts about the most divisive issue in politics, Hein de Haas, Basic Books, Hachette, 2023)

 

Laws making hiring undocumented workers did not get on the books until 1986…and collecting dust since 😂.

 

Neither administration has taken to task the companies and individuals hiring the undocumented workers…and the so called “criminal prosecution” of such employers is nonexistent.

‘But , hey , the occasional ICE raid rounding up a dozen few here and there will make maga extremists all warm and fuzzy.

 

 

 

https://trac.syr.edu/immigration/reports/559/

Few Prosecuted for Illegal Employment of Immigrants

Table 1. Criminal Prosecution of Employers
(8 USC 1324a)

Number Latest Month	0
Number Previous Month	0
Number Previous 12 Months	11
Number 5 Years Ago	11
Number 10 Years Ago	16

 

According to Immigration and Customs Enforcement, "ICE's worksite enforcement strategy focuses on the criminal prosecution of employers who knowingly hire illegal workers.[1]"

 

However, actual prosecution of employers for employing immigrants without proper documentation actually has been relatively rare. For example, the latest available data show that during the last twelve months (April 2018 - March 2019) only 11 individuals (and no companies) were prosecuted in just 7 cases. There were no prosecutions during either of the last two months. See Table 1.

 

During the same period, these 11 prosecutions compare with 85,727 individuals prosecuted for illegal entry, 34,617 prosecuted for illegal re-entry, and 4,733 prosecuted for illegally bringing in or harboring immigrants. Given the millions of undocumented immigrants now living and working in this country, the odds of being criminally prosecuted for employing undocumented workers appears to be exceedingly remote.

Indeed, since criminal penalties for employers were first enacted by Congress in 1986, few employers have ever been prosecuted under these provisions (8 USC 1324a). Prosecutions have rarely climbed above 15 annually, and have never exceeded 20 individuals a year except for brief periods during 2005 under President Bush, and in the first year of the Obama Administration.

 

These results are based upon case-by-case information analyzed by the Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse (TRAC) at Syracuse University. These data were obtained from the Justice Department as a result of litigation brought by TRAC under the Freedom of Information Act.

 

Year-to-year fluctuations in the prosecution of employers are shown more clearly in Figure 1. Each bar represents the annual total number of prosecutions over the previous 12 months for the period covering March 2004 through March 2019. Prosecutions of employers since President Trump assumed office roughly parallel the number that occurred during all but the first year of the Obama Administration.

[Dashinka 24,703]

9 hours ago, Family said:

The fact that labor /jobs availability is the major  dynamic for US border has been always been my belief…first line of defense is getting employers ( big, small , mom and pop shops or domestic ) to abide the laws. 
Less “illegal employers” = Less “illegal aliens”

 

 

 

If that is the case, then why aren’t people flocking to China?

[Dashinka 24,703]

Hmm, not just a U.S. problem.

 

Home Office refuses to release grooming gang deportation data despite backlash over scandal blighting Britain

The Home Office insists that it will 'do everything' to ensure serious foreign offenders are deported, but has declined to reveal the specific figures for convicted groomers.

Former Home Secretary Suella Braverman has called for a 'zero tolerance approach' to the deportation of foreign child sex offenders.

She said: 'We need to have a zero tolerance approach when it comes to deporting those foreign nationals who have been found guilty of these heinous crimes.' 

However, a Home Office source said that the number of foreign criminals being deported from the UK dropped under the Conservative government.

It comes as Sir Keir Starmer prepares to mount a defence of the grooming gangs scandal amid mounting pressure for a public inquiry.
 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14254025/Home-Office-refuses-release-grooming-gang-deportation-data.html

 

[Lee Thacket 43]

4 hours ago, Dashinka said:

If that is the case, then why aren’t people flocking to China?

 

I think they are. There is large scale migration from the Chinese countryside to the big cities. It would be interesting to know what kind of cultural factors are at play there.

 

 

[Dashinka 24,703]

1 hour ago, Lee Thacket said:

 

I think they are. There is large scale migration from the Chinese countryside to the big cities. It would be interesting to know what kind of cultural factors are at play there.

 

 

I guess I was speaking more of migration from outside of China.

[Boiler 45,871]

I used to live in Tower Hamlets and that has seen waves of immigration for at least 500 years, and of course the motivators are now somewhat different.

 

There is also a major difference between say Pakistani Immigration to the US and the UK, as the rapre gangs in Rotherham etc show.

 

The unemployment situation is also very different. Anyway too late now. Nothing new, all discussed decades ago and nothing changed.

 

Quite interesting how the politics has changed, sort of switched over, take Cesar Chavez for example he was a Labour/Left Wing hero of his age but would be tossed aside by the current Dems.

 

Also interesting to compare the US and Canada, sort of like UK and Europe, much easier to live under the radar in the former.

[Lee Thacket 43]

20 hours ago, Dashinka said:

I guess I was speaking more of migration from outside of China.

 

I was under the impression that China, being so big, satisfies its labor needs internally.

 

I found this short article about external immigration. They don't seem to like it:

https://artsci.tamu.edu/news/2023/07/china-needs-immigrants.html

[Dashinka 24,703]

55 minutes ago, Lee Thacket said:

 

I was under the impression that China, being so big, satisfies its labor needs internally.

 

I found this short article about external immigration. They don't seem to like it:

https://artsci.tamu.edu/news/2023/07/china-needs-immigrants.html

I tend to agree, China is not very receptive to external immigration as first the Han culture is somewhat racist to other non-Han peoples, and second, IMO, the CCP sees external immigration as a potential threat to their power.  China does have a lot of people right now, but their demographics are changing rapidly.  Their failed one-child policy is a factor, and now as the countries economic growth progresses, raising children, particularly within their mega cities, is quite expensive.  Sure it will be long after my time on this planet, but India has already overtaken China for population, and China's population mean age is increasing.

[Lee Thacket 43]

21 hours ago, Boiler said:

I used to live in Tower Hamlets and that has seen waves of immigration for at least 500 years, and of course the motivators are now somewhat different.

 

There is also a major difference between say Pakistani Immigration to the US and the UK, as the rapre gangs in Rotherham etc show.

 

The unemployment situation is also very different. Anyway too late now. Nothing new, all discussed decades ago and nothing changed.

 

Quite interesting how the politics has changed, sort of switched over, take Cesar Chavez for example he was a Labour/Left Wing hero of his age but would be tossed aside by the current Dems.

 

Also interesting to compare the US and Canada, sort of like UK and Europe, much easier to live under the radar in the former.

 

I saw a documentary about the politician Cyril Smith years ago. He seemed to be a one man grooming gang in his home town of Rochdale just across the hills from Rotherham.

 

The country's biggest grooming gang seems to be The Roman Catholic Church.

 

You say, "all discussed decades ago and nothing changed." I agree with that, but there does seem to be a greater willingness to listen to victims today.

 

The common theme with Rochdale, Rotherham and the Church appears to be a lack of belief in the children. Send people to jail if they don't properly investigate.

[Dashinka 24,703]

40 minutes ago, Lee Thacket said:

 

I saw a documentary about the politician Cyril Smith years ago. He seemed to be a one man grooming gang in his home town of Rochdale just across the hills from Rotherham.

 

The country's biggest grooming gang seems to be The Roman Catholic Church.

 

You say, "all discussed decades ago and nothing changed." I agree with that, but there does seem to be a greater willingness to listen to victims today.

 

The common theme with Rochdale, Rotherham and the Church appears to be a lack of belief in the children. Send people to jail if they don't properly investigate.

Isn't the UK spending more time sending people to jail for anti-woke social media posts?  Didn't they leave Jimmy Savile alone for years?  I think there is enough groomers to go around, and certainly the Catholic Church with its archaic rules for priesthood was a magnet for groomers, one could say the same thing about the Boy Scouts being a target rich environment.  Criminals will take what the system gives them, and it appears the Pakistani groomers are being given a lot of leeway right now for the wrong reasons. 

[Lee Thacket 43]

5 hours ago, Dashinka said:

Isn't the UK spending more time sending people to jail for anti-woke social media posts?  Didn't they leave Jimmy Savile alone for years?  I think there is enough groomers to go around, and certainly the Catholic Church with its archaic rules for priesthood was a magnet for groomers, one could say the same thing about the Boy Scouts being a target rich environment.  Criminals will take what the system gives them, and it appears the Pakistani groomers are being given a lot of leeway right now for the wrong reasons. 

 

No, you can't be sent to jail for your opinions.

 

Lots of people turned a blind eye to what Jimmy Savile was doing. He was very popular back in the day, a good Catholic boy who loved his mum, went to mass and got knighted by the Pope for his charitable work. My problem with the Catholic Church is not some of its members were abusers. It is that the hierarchy tried to cover things up.

[Dashinka 24,703]

1 hour ago, Lee Thacket said:

 

No, you can't be sent to jail for your opinions.

 

Lots of people turned a blind eye to what Jimmy Savile was doing. He was very popular back in the day, a good Catholic boy who loved his mum, went to mass and got knighted by the Pope for his charitable work. My problem with the Catholic Church is not some of its members were abusers. It is that the hierarchy tried to cover things up.

I agree, it is always the cover-up that makes things worse.  I believe the Boy Scouts tried the same tactic and it didn’t work out too good for them.  As to someone from the UK being arrested for an opinion, there is this.