Why are people getting rejected on assets only?

[SalishSea 17,827]

4 minutes ago, Larry207 said:

Why are some people getting approved on assets, but others aren't. It seems to depend on the mood of the consul.

It's not a black and white formulaic decision.  It is based on the totality of circumstances.  

[Larry207 9]

4 hours ago, pushbrk said:

You are correct that Ms Heard is a popular source of misinformation.  If you are old enough to withdraw from an IRA without penalty, then it is certainly considered liquid.  If the total is well over (Double or more) the three dollars to replace one dollar of income shortfall, I would ignore Ms Heard altogether.  You live in the Philippines, so you are already used to hearing vague information.  Retired people living of retirement savings are almost always successful in sponsoring their spouse using significant liquid assets.

Thank you Mr pushbrk. I always look forward to your answers to others on this forum. Thank you for your hard work answering member questions. You answer has actually eased my anxiety. I am old enough to withdrawal from my IRA, and I also have a non retirement brokerage account that generates income that I have been withdrawing from. I do meet the asset requirements . Since the cost of living is so low in the Philippines, my income for tax purposes appear insufficient. Thank you for time. I always enjoy reading your straight to the point, no nonsense answers.

[Larry207 9]

37 minutes ago, top_secret said:

Anecdotally, US Embassy Manilla has been taking a hard line on domicile recently.  There are multiple recent examples of persons who lived with spouses in the Philippines during the immigration process running up against very serious issues attempting to prove domicile when the time comes.  It is perhaps far less of an issue of assets or income, and more an issue of proving one is actually currently supporting themselves IN THE US.  Assets may be fine if you have conclusive evidence you are using them to support yourself in the US.  If you have been living on assets in the Philippines it may be problematic and require a really detailed plan of how you would support yourself in the US.

Thanks for your reply.  I have conclusive evidence and my assets are generating income. I hope this is enough. My evidence of domicile consists of:  House with with a deed, property tax receipts, property insurance, drivers license, voting records, bank and brokerage accounts, credit cards, U.S Cell phone plan with number

[Larry207 9]

39 minutes ago, Lemonslice said:

Has your spouse been denied?  Or is it an hypothetical question?  Many people qualify on assets; assets have to be liquid, and presented clearly.  Denials I have seen were from non U.S. assets, crypto, non-liquid assets, insufficient assets/documentation of assets... 

Thanks for you reply. My spouse is DQ. I'm temporarily living in the Philippines due to the long processing time. We are still awaiting the interview at Manila. The assets I'm using are liquid.
Maybe it only appears that many people are getting denied because they are the ones that complain and the people with a positive experience don't even mention being approved.

[pushbrk 12,881]

1 hour ago, Larry207 said:

 

My assets are generating income. The policy states that assets can be used. Let me restate my question. Why are some people getting approved on assets, but others aren't. It seems to depend on the mood of the consul.
You have to keep reading the instructions. They state starting on page 9:
If your total household income does not meet the requirement, you may submit evidence of the value of your assets, the sponsored immigrant’s assets, and/or assets of a household member that can be used, if necessary, for the support of the intending immigrants. The value of assets of all of these persons may be combined in order to meet the necessary requirement. Only assets that can be converted into cash within one year and without considerable hardship or financial loss to the owner may be included. The owner of the asset must include a description of the asset, proof of ownership, and the basis for the owner’s claim of its net cash value. You may include the net value of your home as an asset. The net value of the home is the appraised value of the home, minus the sum of any and all loans secured by a mortgage, trust deed, or other lien on the home. If you wish to include the net value of your home, then you must include documentation demonstrating that you own it, a recent appraisal by a licensed appraiser, and evidence of the amount of any and all loans secured by a mortgage, trust deed, or other lien on the home. You may not include the net value of an automobile unless you show that you have more than one automobile, and at least one automobile is not included as an asset

Total Value of Assets. In order to qualify based on the value of your assets, the total value of your assets must equal at least five times the difference between your total household income and the current Federal Poverty Guidelines for your household size. However, if you are a U.S. citizen and you are sponsoring your spouse or child age 18 years of age or older, the total value of your assets must only be equal to at least three times the difference. If the intending immigrant is a foreign national orphan who will be adopted in the United States after he or she acquires legal permanent residence, and who will, as a result, acquire citizenship under section 320 of the INA, the total value of your assets need only equal the difference.

What if I Cannot Meet the Income Requirements?  The value of your assets, the assets of any household member who has signed Form I-864A, or the assets of the intending immigrants; or 4. A joint sponsor whose income and/or assets equal at least 125 percent of the Federal Poverty Guidelines. 

You may use assets to supplement income if the consular or immigration officer is convinced that the monetary value of the asset could reasonably be made available to support the sponsored immigrant and converted to cash within one year without undue harm to the sponsor or his or her family members. You may not include an automobile unless you show that you own at least one working automobile that you have not included.

The answer to your actual question cannot be offered as a general answer.  I assure you that each person who tries to use assets and fails, is an individual case with it's own unique reason.  Only another case with the same circumstances would be denied for the same reason.  Instead of focusing on possible failure, I suggest you focus on why you will succeed.

 

If you are retired, have Social Security income, and have a large enough IRA to support yourself in the USA, then the person making the public charge decision can see that.  It doesn't have to be this way, but if you can show your IRA is growing, even though you are making withdrawals to support yourself, that's another positive.  But really, a Consular Officer is trained to understand whether the assets are enough to support you and the immigrant or not.  That's what IRA's are for, to support retired people through their retirement years.  It's no rocket science.  If you know you IRA is sufficient, they'll be able to see that too.

That said, the people I've seen having issues with assets only, are those whose asset totals are either marginally qualifying or/and they are trying to use assets not considered "liquid".  An IRA for a retired person, is definitely liquid.  The question is whether it's enough.  You already know if it is or isn't.

[top_secret 2,417]

34 minutes ago, Larry207 said:

Thanks for you reply. My spouse is DQ. I'm temporarily living in the Philippines due to the long processing time. We are still awaiting the interview at Manila. The assets I'm using are liquid.
Maybe it only appears that many people are getting denied because they are the ones that complain and the people with a positive experience don't even mention being approved.

 

People are still getting approved but you are correct that they sometimes run into issues.  You should build a strong case for domicile in the US.  It is not so much the assets that US Embassy Manila is challenging, rather it is the domicile issue.  In similar cases some people have found themselves scrambling to answer a 221g after an interview about EXACTLY how they intend to re-establish domicile in the US after a protracted visit to the Philippines.

[Larry207 9]

10 minutes ago, pushbrk said:

The answer to your actual question cannot be offered as a general answer.  I assure you that each person who tries to use assets and fails, is an individual case with it's own unique reason.  Only another case with the same circumstances would be denied for the same reason.  Instead of focusing on possible failure, I suggest you focus on why you will succeed.

 

If you are retired, have Social Security income, and have a large enough IRA to support yourself in the USA, then the person making the public charge decision can see that.  It doesn't have to be this way, but if you can show your IRA is growing, even though you are making withdrawals to support yourself, that's another positive.  But really, a Consular Officer is trained to understand whether the assets are enough to support you and the immigrant or not.  That's what IRA's are for, to support retired people through their retirement years.  It's no rocket science.  If you know you IRA is sufficient, they'll be able to see that too.

That said, the people I've seen having issues with assets only, are those whose asset totals are either marginally qualifying or/and they are trying to use assets not considered "liquid".  An IRA for a retired person, is definitely liquid.  The question is whether it's enough.  You already know if it is or isn't.

Thank you again for your detailed answer. You definitely helped me out with your statement " Instead of focusing on possible failure, I suggest you focus on why you will succeed." I will succeed because my assets are sufficient.

[Larry207 9]

20 minutes ago, top_secret said:

 

People are still getting approved but you are correct that they sometimes run into issues.  You should build a strong case for domicile in the US.  It is not so much the assets that US Embassy Manila is challenging, rather it is the domicile issue.  In similar cases some people have found themselves scrambling to answer a 221g after an interview about EXACTLY how they intend to re-establish domicile in the US after a protracted visit to the Philippines.

My evidence of domicile consists of: I intend to re establish domicile by moving into the house that I own. House with with a deed, property tax receipts, property insurance, drivers license, voting records, bank and brokerage accounts, credit cards, U.S Cell phone plan with a U.S. phone number. I am temporarily living in the  the Philippines only because the visa process is long. 14 months for I-130. DQ in September, now another 12 months estimated wait time. I hope they realize this was a temporary stay.

Edited Tuesday at 01:46 AM by Larry207

[top_secret 2,417]

2 minutes ago, Larry207 said:

My evidence of domicile consists of: I intend to live in my house. House with with a deed, property tax receipts, property insurance, drivers license, voting records, bank and brokerage accounts, credit cards, U.S Cell phone plan with a U.S. phone number. I am temporarily living in the  the Philippines only because the visa process is long. 14 months for I-130. DQ in September, now another 12 months estimated wait time. I hope they realize this was a temporary stay.

 

I would rephrase that just slightly because it seems like you totally live in the US and are just temporarily visiting the Philippines???  On the bright side, the latest batch of interview letters that just went out included April 2024 DQ dates so it seems they are finally making some progress reducing the interview backlog at US Embassy Manila.

[Larry207 9]

1 minute ago, top_secret said:

 

I would rephrase that just slightly because it seems like you totally live in the US and are just temporarily visiting the Philippines???  On the bright side, the latest batch of interview letters that just went out included April 2024 DQ dates so it seems they are finally making some progress reducing the interview backlog at US Embassy Manila.

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.

[Myko87 0]

Every embassy does things a little different. I've always heard that Manila does not accept assets to make up the difference lacking in income. I specifically got a new job earning more and working a full year to avoid this issue.

[Larry207 9]

12 minutes ago, Myko87 said:

Every embassy does things a little different. I've always heard that Manila does not accept assets to make up the difference lacking in income. I specifically got a new job earning more and working a full year to avoid this issue.

My assets are generating the same amount of income as if I was working, and still earning dividends. The problem is, like me, everyone is getting information from Ms Heard. Please see the comments from pushbrk regarding assets.

[pushbrk 12,881]

1 hour ago, Myko87 said:

Every embassy does things a little different. I've always heard that Manila does not accept assets to make up the difference lacking in income. I specifically got a new job earning more and working a full year to avoid this issue.

You "always heard" wrong.

[Myko87 0]

18 hours ago, pushbrk said:

You "always heard" wrong.

By "always heard" I mean members and admins from FB groups that have direct experience or have spoken to people who had to get co-sponsors because of it. There are also threads on VJ from people who have completed the process and also say that assets are generally not accepted. I have never read a story where assets were accepted at the Manila embassy but I've read countless that have said they aren't .. emphasis on Manila and not other countries.

[Myko87 0]

20 hours ago, Larry207 said:

My assets are generating the same amount of income as if I was working, and still earning dividends. The problem is, like me, everyone is getting information from Ms Heard. Please see the comments from pushbrk regarding assets.

Assets generating income might be different and yes I read what he said but he's the first person I've seen in 2 years to say that. I've never heard of a single story of assets being accepted at the Manila embassy but I've heard countless stories of people saying they weren't. If they were accepted then we should expect to see people in FB, Reddit or VJ say that they were when they went for the interview. There are threads here on VJ of people saying that they're not accepted as well. I decided to error on the side of caution and get a higher paying job so I didn't have to worry about using assets.