Engagement ceremony was not a problem

[DBiddle 19]

I have often read on VJ that having an engagement ceremony will guarantee a denial for a K1 Fiancé Visa.  This statement is frequently repeated as fact, but it was not true for our K1 case in Cambodia.

 

We had an elaborate engagement ceremony, consistent with Khmer culture, and we included several pictures as proof of our relationship.  During her interview, my fiance was asked several questions about the ceremony, but none of these addressed it as a problem.  She was asked how many people attended, why my parents were not at the ceremony, and where we traveled on our “honeymoon.”  The engagement ceremony was clearly not an impediment to our K1 approval in Cambodia.

 

It would be more accurate to tell people that the cultural norms of the country should be considered, rather than a blanket statement that an engagement ceremony will result in a K1 denial.

[apnzz 268]

I think you're confusing what people are saying.

 

Personally I've never seen "engagement" ceremonies be an issue; when people say to avoid ceremonies they are more so discussing wedding ceremonies or other types of marriage ceremonies that aren't necessarily legal marriage. E.g certain cultures wanting to do a ceremony for their wedding in their country that isn't a formal wedding but just for their family in their home country to be able to participate. 

 

There have been so so many people on here, reddit and across the facebook groups who have experienced denials because their ceremonies often look too much like a wedding, or they have some type of actual wedding/ ceremony.

 

There's a huge difference between an engagement ceremony or celebration - which should in theory be okay, and actual non-legal and other forms of wedding ceremonies people try to do in their home country (which more often than not are related to their family participating or their culture) before getting legally married (in the US). CO and USCIS don't like seeing wedding ceremonies or any type of ceremony for marriage - because even if it isn't legal, it pushes you over this "too-married" for a k1 boundary.

 

Also regardless, even if a ceremony wasn't an issue in your case, doesn't mean it should be encouraged to others; there's a reason so so so many people online across the community say to avoid any type of wedding/marriage ceremony, regardless of the nature or purpose, during the k1 process because it isn't worth the risk it poses.

Edited November 1 by apnzz

[Dashinka 24,653]

I am not sure anyone said engagement ceremonies are a guaranteed denial for a K1.  That being said, there are many stories in many countries where people have been denied for ceremonies that looked too much like a traditional wedding, so the overall recommendation is to avoid the appearance of a wedding as if it is questioned by a difficult CO, it is impossible to defend a negative.

 

Regardless, congratulations on your K1, and good luck with your visa journey! 

[Crazy Cat 41,985]

1 hour ago, DBiddle said:

I have often read on VJ that having an engagement ceremony will guarantee a denial for a K1 Fiancé Visa.

I've not seen it stated like that.  However, Visa Journey history has shown that there is a risk as numerous couples have been denied at the interview for "being too married" for a K-1.  Each couple has to weigh the risk and the possible consequences.  Good luck on the rest of your journey. 

[Scandi 4,173]

Nobody has ever said that an engagement ceremony WILL result in a K-1 denial.

[TBoneTX 45,661]

18 hours ago, apnzz said:

even if a ceremony wasn't an issue in your case, doesn't mean it should be encouraged to others; there's a reason so so so many people online across the community say to avoid any type of wedding/marriage ceremony, regardless of the nature or purpose, during the k1 process because it isn't worth the risk it poses.

I was going to say something similar to this.

 

People here don't often realize the absolute power of consular officers to halt one's petition.  COs are trained to be healthily suspicious, and it's up to each of us to do everything in our honest power to convince these skeptical strangers that our relationships are bona fide.  This includes minimizing risk -- not only in regard to engagement ceremonies as discussed, but also being alert to avoid playfully calling ourselves "hubby/wifey" in attached correspondence.  The COs have to decide on the basis of the evidence provided -- they can't presume that "hubby/wifey" aren't really married, and they can't automatically presume (always or at all) that an engagement ceremony is precisely that and not a wedding.  A 221g, Administrative Review, and outright refusal of the visa are not pleasant.

 

When these issues come up, I urgently recommend the most risk-avoidant, conservative behavior possible.  Why tempt fate?

 

You worked within known, understood boundaries "consistent with Khmer culture," as you state, and that's wonderful.  Congratulations on your visa, and best wishes during the further stages of your process.

[Daphne . 1,911]

Good to hear that you didn’t have an issue but the warnings still stand because it is better to be safe than sorry I think.
 

Here is a post on Reddit from an hour ago from somebody who actually did get their K1 denied due to a pre-wedding ceremony https://www.reddit.com/r/immigration/s/wT9wnygNPN

 

Edited November 2 by Daphne .

[DBiddle 19]

To be clear, my post was specific to Cambodia.  I am not suggesting that an engagement ceremony could not be a problem elsewhere.

But I did not imagine that I have read these absolute comments on VJ.  Here is a recent thread:

https://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/823629-can-i-really-do-this-on-my-ownand-a-couple-of-questions-i-am-worried-about/page/2/#comments
 

This thread contains many absolute statements, such as “100%, you are not eligible for K-1, you do not qualify, etc.”

My recent experience in Cambodia showed a different view of an engagement ceremony, and I wanted to point this out.

 

[TBoneTX 45,661]

15 hours ago, DBiddle said:

To be clear, my post was specific to Cambodia.  I am not suggesting that an engagement ceremony could not be a problem elsewhere.

I think that everyone realizes this, and your experience is appreciated.  Your awareness of Cambodian culture, your strict adherence to proper protocol, and your wish to clarify the issue are commendable.

 

I'm VERY sure that the replies here are to re-emphasize -- to the unwashed who are reading this -- that any such undertaking must be 100% "by the cultural book" and leave absolutely zero doubt as to what the ceremony is and is not.  The slightest deviation or misperception can result in a consular decision that the couple is "too married" for a K-1, and they'll then be in the position of having to prove a negative -- or of having to marry (for real) to apply for a CR-1, thus losing years in starting the process over.  As stated throughout, the issue is risk and how much is tolerable.

Edited November 3 by TBoneTX

[Wavez24 20]

22 hours ago, Daphne . said:

Good to hear that you didn’t have an issue but the warnings still stand because it is better to be safe than sorry I think.
 

Here is a post on Reddit from an hour ago from somebody who actually did get their K1 denied due to a pre-wedding ceremony https://www.reddit.com/r/immigration/s/wT9wnygNPN

 

Without seeing the CO's notes, you don't know the reason this person was denied.

 

The whole 'too married for a K1 but not enough for a CR1' is complete rubbish. You are either married, or you are not, there is no in between.

 

@DBiddleI completely agree with you, there is A LOT of wrong information being given on this forum as though it's gospel.

[TBoneTX 45,661]

2 hours ago, Wavez24 said:

The whole 'too married for a K1 but not enough for a CR1' is complete rubbish.

Three-week members of VJ are cordially invited to search the site for numerous examples of the situation over many years.   

[Boiler 45,761]

I have seen no end of threads where this has happened.

 

If it had been one or two I would note but think of them as outliers.

 

Now I think of it I have seen lots of variants including but not limited to those who did marry and got a K1, those who said well it did not count because it was not in the US, because my divorce was not complete, because her Parents wanted it and we had filed a K1.

 

I think my favourite was the one who wanted to use the first marriage date to avoid the 2 year RoC.

 

You also get it in other categories where being married would kick them out.

[Crazy Cat 41,985]

7 hours ago, Wavez24 said:

The whole 'too married for a K1 but not enough for a CR1' is complete rubbish.

Except VJ history says otherwise. 

[apnzz 268]

10 hours ago, Wavez24 said:

The whole 'too married for a K1 but not enough for a CR1' is complete rubbish. You are either married, or you are not, there is no in between.

Considering there is an immense amount of accounts from people who have first-hand experienced this happen to them, and shared their unfortunate experiences online, especially here, with others, to share and warn people from making the same errors, this statement is completely inaccurate.

 

There are people who have been commenting here, who have been active members of this forum community for several years- some even over a decade+ and especially the moderators who see thousands of posts, and they have seen this "too-married" for a k1 situation come up countless times.

 

I'd definitely considering researching and educating yourself in the community before claiming a statement to be true; especially when you're doing so on a community forum where you can easily find first hand examples of people being denied k1 visas specifically because they (for several reasons, one usually being doing some sort of non legal marriage celebration or ceremony before the visa process finishes) are "too-married" for a k1. 

 

It is a thing. A thing that has been seen too often.

 

& telling people otherwise is simply spreading misinformation. 

 

Thank you to the mods & the veteran members in this thread specifically, it is a reassuring thing to know you guys have the best interest in your members' & educating people appropriately so they know the risks and have all the information relevant to not put their visa process at risk. Much love. <3 

[SalishSea 17,980]

On 11/2/2024 at 3:51 AM, DBiddle said:

To be clear, my post was specific to Cambodia.  I am not suggesting that an engagement ceremony could not be a problem elsewhere.

But I did not imagine that I have read these absolute comments on VJ.  Here is a recent thread:

https://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/823629-can-i-really-do-this-on-my-ownand-a-couple-of-questions-i-am-worried-about/page/2/#comments
 

This thread contains many absolute statements, such as “100%, you are not eligible for K-1, you do not qualify, etc.”

My recent experience in Cambodia showed a different view of an engagement ceremony, and I wanted to point this out.

 

My statement to that effect was in direct response to that OP's statement "The engagement ceremony in Cambodia is pretty much a wedding."

 

If  you read the entire thread of this OP, his situation was clearly very different than yours, so citing this thread as evidence of engagement ceremonies as being no problem is disingenuous for future VJ members seeking info, IMHO.